http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: Sometimes we can't win... en Mon, 18 May 2026 03:39:35 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=2627#post-28014 Mon, 28 Mar 2011 15:15:23 +0000 kaputnik 28014@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>drag your heels along the ground then throw yourself over the handlebars, landing at their feet to protrate yourself in the name of forgiveness? Still wouldn't satisfy some people! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=2627#post-28013 Mon, 28 Mar 2011 14:57:11 +0000 wingpig 28013@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>What does everyone reckon to be the best way to brake to make it completely obvious to pedestrians that you ARE braking for their crossing? I usually slow as soon as I know I have to stop, braking gradually but obviously with added obvious downshiftyclicks so that I stop smoothly just behind the line (or bit further back, if people are already crossing (and not paying attention to where the little inset metal bits are)) rather than stopping more suddenly nearer the crossing (which carries the risk of being rear-ended, if followed, or of frightening the pedestrians) but their wariness is frequently palpable. The problem with either stopping gradually or more suddenly (and arguably more obviously) is that I worry either method might create the impression of not wanting to completely stop, or of doing that slow-down-a-bit-but-trundle-through thing that some RLJers seem to consider equivalent to stopping. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=2627#post-28012 Mon, 28 Mar 2011 14:31:51 +0000 Arellcat 28012@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>What kaputnik forgot to mention was that when he, LB and I were out on Saturday we were heading back into town along the A70, and stopped at the red light just before Curriehill Road. The two elderly pedestrians at the crossing were very hesitant to cross and looked at us as if expecting our trio of hell raisin', law breakin' two-wheeled ne'er-do-wells to barge through without a care. Despite the fact that we were actually racing along at zero mph at that precise moment.</p> <p>I've noticed it happening a lot when I'm in town these days. Pedestrians hesitating to cross, <em>assuming</em> that I'll ignore the red light and brush past rudely and dangerously. That's our RLJ community doing that.</p> <p>This morning it balanced out a little, as the lead car that stopped a short distance behind a red light, decided to take off before the amber light had even lit up. I, meanwhile, being next in line cheerily held up the rest of the traffic until the green light came on. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=2627#post-28006 Mon, 28 Mar 2011 14:06:53 +0000 Cyclingmollie 28006@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>miggy_magic: <em>Is this the case when the pedestrian is crossing when the red man is on?</em></p> <p>I think this is when you're turning into a side road and pedestrians are crossing. You're supposed to wait. But given how little known the rule is, if you do and there's a car behind you you've got to trust the driver to know the rule and not rear-end you. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=2627#post-28005 Mon, 28 Mar 2011 14:06:17 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 28005@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Technically yes. Pedestrians are not bound by the colour of the lit man, unlike traffic.</p> <p>There are quirks. Where a cyclepath shares a crossing with a pedestrian crossing then you can cycle through the red bike symbol - if it is a 'bike only' set of lights (I can't think of any off the top of my head) then you have to treat it like a normal traffic light.</p> <p>All very confusing, which is why I generally go by the rule of 'most vulnerable always takes priority'... But still needs to have all parties also exercising common sense. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=2627#post-28001 Mon, 28 Mar 2011 13:41:36 +0000 miggy_magic 28001@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>watch out for pedestrians crossing a road into which you are turning. If they have started to cross they have priority, so give way</em></p> <p>Is this the case when the pedestrian is crossing when the red man is on? Reason I ask is that I've had the odd heated exchange with folk who've just started crossing Chambers Street (the South Bridge end) when I've been trying to turn into it on my bike. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=2627#post-27998 Mon, 28 Mar 2011 13:24:39 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 27998@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>He was maybe wrong on the signal, but you should have given way to him crossing the road if he had already started to do so (HWC Rule 170)... (Do we have a candidate for the most ignored rule in the HWC?)</em></p> <p>Technically that rule is for roads you are turning <em>into</em> - though personally I think pedestrians should have priority in all cases for crossing the road. But I really <em>do</em> wish people would look before stepping out.</p> <p><em>watch out for pedestrians crossing a road into which you are turning. If they have started to cross they have priority, so give way</em> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=2627#post-27995 Mon, 28 Mar 2011 12:53:02 +0000 kaputnik 27995@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>but you should have given way to him crossing the road if he had already started to do so </em></p> <p>six of one, two sixes and half a dozen of the other, as I was already across the line for the corner when they were stepping out - as in they made the cross <em>after</em> I had made the turn. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=2627#post-27994 Mon, 28 Mar 2011 12:51:46 +0000 Min 27994@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>And even if they do look and see you signalling they walk out anyway. Thing to remember is that when you are cycling you are ALWAYS wrong. </p> <p>Though a couple of times recently I had drivers hold their hand up to acknowledge their mistake. Most unusual.</p> <p>I agree that if you behave properly then you just become a target for people to vent their spleen at you. Happened to me many a time. Not much of an incentive to behave.. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=2627#post-27993 Mon, 28 Mar 2011 12:45:31 +0000 recombodna 27993@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>People always walk into the road with out looking at that valleyfield junction. I've had a few near misses there. The pedestrians are generally annoyed that I've almost crashed into them even though they're the ones who walk out into the road without looking........jeezso some folk eh? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=2627#post-27992 Mon, 28 Mar 2011 12:42:54 +0000 mgj 27992@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>He was maybe wrong on the signal, but you should have given way to him crossing the road if he had already started to do so (HWC Rule 170)... (Do we have a candidate for the most ignored rule in the HWC?) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=2627#post-27989 Mon, 28 Mar 2011 12:32:42 +0000 kaputnik 27989@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I got similarly wound up by a throwaway remark from a pedestrian a few weeks back, was doing the quick right our of Gilmour Place, navigating the potholed junction outside the Kings then directly left into Valleyfield.</p> <p>There's a lot for your hands to be doing, braking, signalling, turning around potholes etc., checking over shoulders for cars or cyclists cutting up your inside or outside yadda yadda.</p> <p>As I turned into Valleyfield, chump and his ladyfriend were stepping out onto the raised roadway bit on t'uther side of road and he loudly commented "where's your signal."</p> <p>I debated either giving him a shout of a few short, sharp phrases or stopping and getting off to give him a lecture that A/ I did signal my turn before I made it B/ he couldn't see it because it was hidden behind my body C/ at that junction I'm more concerned about traffic behind me seeing the signal D/ we were nowhere near eachother E/ there's more pressing matters when making that turn than holding an arm out wide to the left as you go round the corner and F/ he's embarrasing his girlfriend and should try getting on a bike and shedding a few pounds.</p> <p>But I went home silently boiling with rage about smart retorts I could have given and how he had spoiled an otherwise nice ride home. </p> <p>I suppose the difference with such comments directed at cars is that we actually hear them. I think as these comments are either made to imrpess the friend or to deliberately rile you, the best response is either no response or to laugh it off and try not let it get to you.</p> <p>Like you said, we can't win.</p> <p>Amir and I were passed by an idiot in a Ford Focus on an otherwise completely empty A708 just before the Grey Mare's Tail. It's 2 lane, straight road with great sightlines. We heard the car coming, singled up and pulled in a bit only for the passenger to be hanging out the window yelling "why don't you pay road tax". I managed to respond with some anglo saxon while they were still in hearing distance but sadly there were too many miles in our legs to catch the car on the climb out of the valley and deliver the lecture about "road tax". Wish we had stayed side-by-side taking up a whole half of the lane now, just to have <em>really</em> incovenienced him. They obviously saw us in the distance and mate said to driver "ha ha, watch and learn, this is how clever I am". </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=2627#post-27988 Mon, 28 Mar 2011 12:11:19 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 27988@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Sadly that morning was the only one last week where I was running hideously late so had no time to stop (when my light was green, obviously, I <em>had</em> to stop at the red...) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=2627#post-27985 Mon, 28 Mar 2011 12:01:55 +0000 wingpig 27985@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Did you mutter anything at them (or jump off to interview them for CC)?<br /> "I do, and did" or "only SOME don't" or "I know, so you're best off passing comment on the ones who don't at the time when <em>they</em> can hear and (potentially) heed you rather than just annoying two law-abiding cyclists" rather than "well, pedestrians don't usually look. And they smell" or worse? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=2627#post-27980 Mon, 28 Mar 2011 11:55:01 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 27980@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I'd forgotten about this little snippet from my commute last week that made me realise how deeply ingrained the 'anti-cyclist' sentiment can be.</p> <p>Riding towards Tollcross from the Meadows, pedestrian crossing is at red for traffic. I stop, as does the cyclist beside me. People cross, we wait for green and go. Just as we set off one of the last couple of guys to cross turns to his mate and asys, "<em>Of course cyclists usually don't stop.</em>"</p> <p>So even when you do something absolutely right it's a lead-in to a complaint about errant cyclists. </p>