http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: Electric assist / pedelec laws en Mon, 18 May 2026 23:40:52 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=3137#post-254167 Fri, 30 Jun 2017 13:31:40 +0000 neddie 254167@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Was anyone aware of this happening:?</p> <p><em>DfT: Pedal cycles converted to ‘twist and go’ exempt from type approval</em></p> <p><a href="http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/news/dft-pedal-cycles-converted-twist-go-exempt-type-approval/" rel="nofollow">http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/news/dft-pedal-cycles-converted-twist-go-exempt-type-approval/</a></p> <p>Only applies if you convert a previously-used "ordinary" bicycle. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=3137#post-33343 Tue, 14 Jun 2011 10:46:17 +0000 chdot 33343@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"unless there are any closet velo-solex/ cyclemotor fans lurking on here!"</p> <p>Bound to be!! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=3137#post-33342 Tue, 14 Jun 2011 10:43:23 +0000 Smudge 33342@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I think the power limit is a bit of a red herring, currently if the batteries are up to it you can ride at 15mph as long as you want, more power = better acceleration but worse battery life (if you use the power obviously) but as long as there is a speed limit it makes little practical difference other than the ability as mentioned to move heavier loads (or people!) and deal with steeper hills.<br /> My other problem with the power limit is why have a rule which is very nearly unenforceable? Those of us who remember the original 12hp 125 limit will know that whilst the capacity limit was generally broadly observed (relatively easy to check), the power limit was ignored by significant numbers, resulting in highly strung 100mph+ "learner" bikes...<br /> I'd be prepared to put a fairly large wager down that most Policemen, traffic or otherwise are unaware of the detail of the law and even those who are lack the equipment and training required to measure the power (both peak and continuous of course) of an electric motor.</p> <p>I really do believe that a 20mph assist limit and removal of the power limits would be a progressive move, encouraging wider use (and hopefully convincing some people that pedalling isn't actually *that* bad!) and moving more people out of cars, especially in the hillier parts of our fair country.</p> <p>The "sub-moped" suggestion, I confess, was a random thought to stir discussion ;-) As it stands however it does seem slightly odd that an old 50cc (or smaller) clip on cyclemotor on a bicycle requires a licence, VED, Insurance, MOT, Helmet etc whilst an electric version requires none of them. Not a problem for 99.9% of the population though (unless there are any closet velo-solex/ cyclemotor fans lurking on here!) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=3137#post-33282 Mon, 13 Jun 2011 13:37:46 +0000 Dave 33282@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>You beat me to it - I was going to say that the simple reason electric bikes are restricted is just to stop them from being mopeds.</p> <p>Lifting it to 20mph would make sense to me, since it's hard to argue that you are in more danger moving at the speed of traffic. But I suspect it would be hard to do with such low wattage motors... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=3137#post-33279 Mon, 13 Jun 2011 13:16:44 +0000 alibali 33279@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>In the UK, mopeds are restricted to 28mph (45km/h, older ones are allowed 31mph). They are restricted to 50cc capacity, but (AFAIK) restricted on power output (probably for enforement reasons).</p> <p>In effect, an electric bike capable of 30mph would just be a moped by other means and I think Arellcat is right to expect CBT/Helmets/Insurance/Tax/Plates to be part of the picture. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=3137#post-33266 Mon, 13 Jun 2011 11:30:33 +0000 Morningsider 33266@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>cb - I think twist and go throttles are allowed on electrically assisted bikes as long as they meet the power, weight and speed restrictions set out in the Electrically Assisted Pedal Cycle Regulations 1983. This means a rider would not need a helmet, licence, tax disc and insurance.</p> <p>However, the manufacturers of such bikes would have to get a European Certificate of Conformity or individual pre-registration assessment by the UK Department for Transport before selling such a bike (not required for other legal electric bikes in the UK). Good for riders of such bikes - less so for the manufacturers who have to jump through lots of hoops to get their bike approved for sale and use. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=3137#post-33251 Mon, 13 Jun 2011 10:02:14 +0000 Arellcat 33251@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The current edition of A to B magazine has quite a lot to say about electric bikes, and the legislation pertaining thereto. I think the UK has a different set of rules from Dutchland, where we do allow throttle without pedalling.</p> <p>But the blanket law on power output is my main gripe because it makes electrically assisted load bikes less attractive to develop -- and I mean carrying the heavy needs-a-car stuff. Not everyone can manage to carry a metric tonne on their bike like Dave Holladay!</p> <p>Trouble is, if you deregulate power output without capping top speed, you create a class of baby motorcyclists who, battery technology notwithstanding, can go at 15mph or 20mph or 30mph all the time, not just in bursts. How should you ensure their safety and training on the road? When does a bicycle with a wee motor on it become an electric scooter that requires a motorbike helmet and insurance and CBT? And might you create parity with infernal combustion powered mopeds of 49cc? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=3137#post-33250 Mon, 13 Jun 2011 09:54:52 +0000 cb 33250@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I believe the law also restricts power only to be available when the pedal is turned, i.e. simple twist throttle controls are affectively banned on new bikes.<br /> (Please someone, correct me if I'm wrong on this).</p> <p>That could be pretty restrictive to a weak cyclist trying to do a hill start. Perhaps an update to the rules could take this problem into account. E.g. a small amount of get-you-started power available without pedalling? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=3137#post-33245 Mon, 13 Jun 2011 09:36:26 +0000 kaputnik 33245@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>A fit amateur cyclist can generate more than 250W... and on a ride that weighs a lot less. I don't think they're any quieter than a pedal and chain bike - perhaps they should be treated in terms of power-to-weight ratio, rather than pure power. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=3137#post-33242 Mon, 13 Jun 2011 09:21:32 +0000 Min 33242@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I didn't know they were restricted though I suppose I shouldn't be surprised that they are restricted to a speed much less than the absolute minimum that motorists are allowed to drive at!</p> <p>I am a fan of electric bikes so I think an increase to 20mph sounds like a great idea to me. I think 30 is too much though, it is too fast for cycle paths IMO. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=3137#post-33201 Sun, 12 Jun 2011 15:51:13 +0000 Smudge 33201@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>With it looking like the powers that be are finally seriously(ish) considering reducing 30mph limits to 20mph, I wondered... is the time right to amend the electric bike legislation to allow a top speed of 20mph (to match the lowest speed limit) rather than the current 15mph?</p> <p>Practically it shouldn't make a great deal of difference but the <em>perception</em> of people who don't understand the concept/reality of average speed (appears to be the majority) would be that they could now "keep up with traffic". Hopefully making them much more attractive to current car users.</p> <p>Also, given that most policemen do not carry dynamometers around with them, and power limits are notoriously difficult (near impossible) to Police, should we drop the "250w" legal power limit outright and just concentrate on the performance?</p> <p>Equally, I wondered if there should be a sub-moped class, allowing more power/speed?<br /> Just as an example, off the top of my head: must be a bicycle with electric assist added, users must wear a cycle or motorcycle helmet, bicycle must be in a roadworthy condition (eg tread on the tyres, brakes which work!), max speed 30mph... keeps it simple, and simple to enforce, but attractive to developers/experimenters?</p> <p>Or am I a maniac who would bring whispering death to thousands of innocent pedestrians whenever they exercise their God given right to step off the pavement without looking..?(he says in daily hate parody mode!) </p>