http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: South Central 20 mph en Thu, 09 Apr 2026 02:17:17 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=3499&page=6#post-63350 Thu, 29 Mar 2012 17:00:56 +0000 freewhwheelin 63350@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Seems to be a bit of confusion. I saw these uniformed Police motorcycles, riding in pairs abreast (as they do)on 2 occasions recently in the south central 20mph trial area, not in the park &amp; Arthurs seat. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=3499&page=6#post-63297 Thu, 29 Mar 2012 11:55:03 +0000 recombodna 63297@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>It makes sense to keep commercial vehicles out of the park of course was just laughing at the reason. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=3499&page=6#post-63252 Thu, 29 Mar 2012 08:38:00 +0000 Dave 63252@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>There was me thinking that the park heritage environment in the centre of Edinburgh was being protected from rat-running by commercial interests at least, but no - it's just because we're too cheap to build a proper road for them.</p> <p>This. Is. Edinburgh. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=3499&page=6#post-63226 Thu, 29 Mar 2012 00:24:26 +0000 PS 63226@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Presumably heavy use by trucks, heavy laden commercial vans, buses etc would destroy the road surface? The few private individuals who happen to use vans (not that large a proportion of the population) running through there will not make that much difference. Makes sense to me. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=3499&page=6#post-63225 Thu, 29 Mar 2012 00:18:55 +0000 Uberuce 63225@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>That's hilarious. Magic anti-capitalist gravity obviously warps spacetime more strongly if you're getting paid to drive across it. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=3499&page=6#post-63221 Wed, 28 Mar 2012 23:47:57 +0000 recombodna 63221@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Freewhelin how did you know they were basketball players? Were they wearing the team gear? Or were they in a sign written bus? In which case as you know the police should have pulled them over for driving a commercial vehicle in the queens park. I was stopped by the police there last week but my van is not a commercial vehicle. I think thar's why the police sit there. They told me that the tarmac is too thin for commercial vehicles ....... Whaaa? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=3499&page=6#post-63211 Wed, 28 Mar 2012 21:14:12 +0000 GordonMackenzie 63211@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Dear MV &amp; Kaputnik)</p> <p>MV - the 20mph signs are in place on Kilmaurs Terrace and have been for maybe a over a week. I live close by and remember them going in but I also checked this evening (in case I dreamt it!).</p> <p>Kaputnik - the Roads Authority in the Park is Historic Scotland but they use L&amp;B to enforce.</p> <p>Gordon </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=3499&page=6#post-63208 Wed, 28 Mar 2012 20:30:08 +0000 Uberuce 63208@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I'll leave it at 'oh dear.' </p> <p>It's one of those arguments where the internet's inability to convey tone really matters. Come along to the coffee on Friday at Zazou and paralinguistics will keep it real. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=3499&page=6#post-63202 Wed, 28 Mar 2012 19:39:24 +0000 freewhwheelin 63202@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>No they were near Sciennes, and on West Saville terr. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=3499&page=6#post-63201 Wed, 28 Mar 2012 19:38:21 +0000 kaputnik 63201@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@freewhwheelin were the LBP motorcyclists in the Holyrood Park?</p> <p>Do any of the more legislation-inclined posters know if L&amp;B have any authority on the park road? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=3499&page=6#post-63199 Wed, 28 Mar 2012 19:33:52 +0000 freewhwheelin 63199@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>and ? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=3499&page=6#post-63197 Wed, 28 Mar 2012 19:29:48 +0000 Uberuce 63197@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Cagers? Oh dear. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=3499&page=6#post-63194 Wed, 28 Mar 2012 19:10:53 +0000 freewhwheelin 63194@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I don't know if this just coincidence, but twice this week I have seen a pair of LBP motorcyclists at different locations on the 20mph zone. TY<br /> hey were sticking to the 20mph limit, lots of unhappy looking cagers behind them. It may be that LBP are using this tactic to get the message across, if so, well done. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=3499&page=6#post-63049 Wed, 28 Mar 2012 08:31:50 +0000 Darkerside 63049@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Given the Fife and L&amp;B questions were the same, I attempted to see if Strathclyde answered the same request. Sadly they don't seem to publish their responses online - they're missing the 'Disclosure Log' site that the other two forces have. Odd.</p> <p>I'll ping them an email this evening, unless someone else wants to bring their Google-fu to bear...?</p> <p>Be nice if enforcement was consistent! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=3499&page=6#post-63044 Wed, 28 Mar 2012 03:50:14 +0000 PS 63044@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>This puts paid to the accusation that speeding fines are a revenue raising/"war on the motorist" measure. </p> <p>If someone had the authority to dish out fines for speeding in the 20mph section of Holyrood Park they would make a fortune. I cruise along the flat there at 20mph on the nose and it is a very rare occurence indeed that cars do not overtake me at what looks like at least 30mph... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=3499&page=6#post-63031 Tue, 27 Mar 2012 22:40:40 +0000 slowcoach 63031@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The questions on enforcing 20mph were also answered by <a href="http://www.fife.police.uk/Default.aspx?page=5847">Fife Constabulary</a> and they seem to have been more active, with 463 FPNs issued. Will there be such regional variations under the single police force? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=3499&page=6#post-63009 Tue, 27 Mar 2012 17:31:37 +0000 MV 63009@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I seem to have found a "loophole"/mistake in the 20 mph system. I've just Clarenced it and thought I'd share it with you: (I hope Clarence is the right way to deal with this, let me know if there's a better way)</p> <p><blockquote>Dear Clarence,</p> <p>I seem to have discovered a mistake in the new 20 mph system in South Edinburgh, specifically on Kilmaurs Terrace.</p> <p>I was checking the map showing 30 mph and 20 mph roads in the area, <a href="http://www.streetsaheadedinburgh.org.uk/downloads/file/37/map_showing_roads_remaining_at_30mph">available</a> through the Streets Ahead website and discovered that Kilmaurs Terrace is neither indicated as 20 mph nor as 30 mph.<br /> Kilmaurs Terrace runs east-west between Dalkeith Road and Kilmaurs Road and is one-way for cars etc going east (towards Kilmaurs Road), but has a contraflow lane for cyclists going west (towards Dalkeith<br /> Road). When checking the situation IRL, I found out that Kilmaurs Terrace does not have a speed limit indicated, neither when entering the street from either side, nor when exiting the street to either<br /> side. Apart from the fact that people driving/cycling on Kilmaurs Terrace do not know what the speed limit is, this also has implications for the surrounding streets: it means that a car on the 30 mph Dalkeith Road could turn into Kilmaurs Terrace and then end up on the 20 mph Kilmaurs Road, without the driver knowing s/he's in a 20 mph zone. (And vice versa a cyclist could go from Kilmaurs Road to<br /> Terrace to Dalkeith Road thinking s/he's still in a 20 mph zone.)</p> <p>Could you please clarify the situation and install appropriate speed limit signs?<br /> </blockquote> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=3499&page=6#post-63008 Tue, 27 Mar 2012 17:23:17 +0000 Min 63008@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Plus don't forget that the Police like to crack down heavily on cycling. Unlike driving, no fatalities are needed for them to do this. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=3499&page=6#post-63007 Tue, 27 Mar 2012 17:17:33 +0000 chdot 63007@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"More than I'd have thought"</p> <p>That's what I thought until I realised 'big numbers' were ages</p> <p>104 in 6 years isn't a 'crime wave'! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=3499&page=6#post-63006 Tue, 27 Mar 2012 17:07:29 +0000 Darkerside 63006@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I'm amazed how many FoI requests they deal with in a single month, going by that link. Interesting balance to be struck between accountability, oversight and committing resource to answering the questions. </p> <p>Also of (utterly unrelated) interest, a list of those charged with various cycling offenses. More than I'd have thought. <a href="http://www.lbp.police.uk/information/freedom_of_information/disclosure_log/2011/august/offences_committed_by_cyclists.aspx" rel="nofollow">http://www.lbp.police.uk/information/freedom_of_information/disclosure_log/2011/august/offences_committed_by_cyclists.aspx</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=3499&page=6#post-62999 Tue, 27 Mar 2012 16:17:28 +0000 Roibeard 62999@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Actually, they've already established that they don't enforce 20mph, considering that their resources are better deployed in enforcing speed limits where statistically there are serious or fatal accidents, and these don't (or didn't) include 20mph zones.</p> <p>Instead they periodically monitor speeds using Traffic Support Wardens, and advice is issued by letter to speeding motorists. A second letter to the same registered keeper means a visit from an officer to discuss the matter. No fines have been issued.</p> <p><a href="http://www.lbp.police.uk/information/freedom_of_information/disclosure_log/2011/august/20_mph_speed_limits.aspx">LBP FoI on 20mph</a></p> <p>Found via a search on their website, as I was about to ask an FoI request about the resources currently expended on enforcing speed limits (thinking about the "no extra resources" line), but it turns out the information is already public.</p> <p>No one need fear a fine or prosecution for breaking a 20mph - maybe even a 30mph or 40mph, if the area isn't statistically an accident hotspot.</p> <p>Robert </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=3499&page=6#post-62987 Tue, 27 Mar 2012 15:01:52 +0000 cb 62987@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="http://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&amp;t=29171">Another viewpoint.</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=3499&page=6#post-62689 Sat, 24 Mar 2012 20:12:31 +0000 druidh 62689@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The police statement is that no <em>extra</em> resources will be assigned, not that they'll turn a blind eye. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=3499&page=6#post-62679 Sat, 24 Mar 2012 18:48:41 +0000 chdot 62679@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="http://www.scotsman.com/edinburgh-evening-news/edinburgh/pupils-seek-pledges-to-enforce-new-20mph-speed-limits-in-south-of-capital-1-2194508" rel="nofollow">http://www.scotsman.com/edinburgh-evening-news/edinburgh/pupils-seek-pledges-to-enforce-new-20mph-speed-limits-in-south-of-capital-1-2194508</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=3499&page=6#post-62600 Fri, 23 Mar 2012 20:16:37 +0000 cc 62600@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>This morning, on the first day of the new 20mph limit, I didn't encounter any effort at speed limit enforcement as I cycled through the zone to and from work, but I did meet a couple of police at Middle Meadow Walk who were stopping people on bikes to encourage them to wear lots of hi-vis and h*lm*ts. We had a short polite conversation about cycle safety. We did agree about one thing, that the roads should be redesigned to provide safe space for bicycles. The policeman asked at one point if I was strongly against h*lm*ts and hi-vis. I wonder how he could tell! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=3499&page=5#post-62596 Fri, 23 Mar 2012 19:26:26 +0000 mgj 62596@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The Chief Constable is provided with resources and held to account (at the moment, prior to reform) by the Lothian and Borders Police Board <a href="http://www.lothianandborderspoliceboard.co.uk/" rel="nofollow">http://www.lothianandborderspoliceboard.co.uk/</a></p> <p>That's who to speak to if you want them to do something different. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=3499&page=5#post-62578 Fri, 23 Mar 2012 16:22:28 +0000 Dave 62578@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>It's possibly a legal requirement (to pilot something affecting so many streets and properties)?</p> <p>Of course it's also raw cunning, because people are less likely to object to a pilot, and it's much easier to justify making a pilot which hasn't been a disaster permanent versus an unproven idea which may be attacked as a potential disaster... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=3499&page=5#post-62574 Fri, 23 Mar 2012 15:44:42 +0000 amir 62574@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I still can't understand why it is a pilot. 20mph zones are hardly novel. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=3499&page=5#post-62565 Fri, 23 Mar 2012 14:38:03 +0000 Nelly 62565@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>As Dave said - they have never (cameras aside) really enforced the 30 limit in town - so I am not getting too excited about non/enforcing 20mph.</p> <p>They are relying on human nature, and that most people dont want to be <em>seen</em> to be breaking the law - the wisdom being that people usually travel slower in 20mph signed areas than 30/40/60 etc.</p> <p>These things dont always work in practice - but this is a start (and its as much as we were ever going to get unfortunately), and if it makes a few people start to slow down, we can build from that. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=3499&page=5#post-62557 Fri, 23 Mar 2012 14:00:20 +0000 recombodna 62557@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Narrowing the streets with segregated cycle paths would slow them down a bit. </p>