http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: Sworn at by another cyclist this morning en Tue, 14 Jul 2026 19:29:32 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=3559&page=2#post-37433 Sat, 06 Aug 2011 00:58:30 +0000 Cyclingmollie 37433@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>AKA the Pencaitland Railway Two-step: the panicked jump to the side that people do when they finally hear your bell ringing as you approach them slowly, from behind, on a shared path. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=3559&page=2#post-37430 Fri, 05 Aug 2011 22:14:25 +0000 Instography 37430@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I'm going to take up whistling jaunty airs as I pedal along, which people will hear and form the impression that I'm having great fun. They'll feel they are missing out on something wonderful and head home to think about trying this cycling thing. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=3559&page=2#post-37427 Fri, 05 Aug 2011 21:59:03 +0000 wingpig 37427@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>'swhy I start pointedly slowing down first. My voice doesn't carry well unless I bellow, which would sound much more aggressive than a ding. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=3559&page=2#post-37426 Fri, 05 Aug 2011 21:34:00 +0000 Instography 37426@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I've always heard bell rings as saying "I'm coming through" as in "I have no intention of slowing down or stopping". It's the bicycle's mee maw. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=3559#post-37423 Fri, 05 Aug 2011 20:59:50 +0000 Kirst 37423@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I make a point of never moving out of the way of pavement cyclists. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=3559#post-37412 Fri, 05 Aug 2011 19:33:10 +0000 chdot 37412@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"I 'ting' from a good way back but more often than not the ped jumps out of(or into!) the way"</p> <p>You must have a loud bell - too often I get no apparent reaction at all. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=3559#post-37411 Fri, 05 Aug 2011 19:30:45 +0000 SRD 37411@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Custard - too true! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=3559#post-37409 Fri, 05 Aug 2011 18:46:18 +0000 custard 37409@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I think a major issue with the bell(i use them) is pedestrians seem to think it means a bike is about to mow them down<br /> I 'ting' from a good way back but more often than not the ped jumps out of(or into!) the way </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=3559#post-37404 Fri, 05 Aug 2011 17:55:06 +0000 SRD 37404@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Having caught up with this thread late, just wanted to say I am appalled at the gall of someone ringing a bell on the pavement, especially at another cyclist, much less being mouthy about it after. How very, very sad. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=3559#post-37356 Fri, 05 Aug 2011 11:30:04 +0000 chdot 37356@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"you can't please everyone"</p> <p>Indeed</p> <p>As mentioned above even bell owners don't always think it's the best thing in all circumstances - and doesn't always work either!</p> <p>Freewheel click definitely works with some people. I have one bike with a very loud GripShift. I get the feeling that some people filter such noises out because they don't recognise it - others seems to react to any sound. (Can I get a research grant to investigate?)</p> <p>I also 'snap' my brake levers - I think in circumstances where people aren't directly in front but I think I'll have to pass quite close to. </p> <p>That's just a few of the cycling dynamics 'we' encounter every day and have to make instant decisions about - not always the optimum ones. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=3559#post-37354 Fri, 05 Aug 2011 11:16:47 +0000 PS 37354@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Just to throw in a "you can't please everyone" line: </p> <p>A few weeks ago I was cycling my racer south from fiveways junction towards Tesco and approached from behind a group of four peds spread across the path. I slowed down, with the resulting freewheel click, flicked my gear levers a few times (which is my other non-bell audio-indicator) and then said "excuse me". The peds looked over their shoulders, made a big show of moving out of my way, then one said loudly to the other "He doesn't even have a bell". </p> <p>Not sure what the bell would have added to the situation, by there you go. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=3559#post-37353 Fri, 05 Aug 2011 11:03:01 +0000 Nelly 37353@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@chdot</p> <p>+1 on the 6mph signs - when I used to use the canal, I presumed they were intended for the barges, not cyclists !</p> <p>Oops, dont think I ever slowed that much...... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=3559#post-37349 Fri, 05 Aug 2011 10:54:29 +0000 chdot 37349@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Saw this on Saturday -<br /> <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/chdot/6007744557/in/photostream"><br /> <img src="http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6138/6007744557_ef2492328d.jpg"></a></p> <p>Should have gone back to get a better shot, but I was in the process of losing the person I was with due to stopping to take photos!</p> <p>Only just noticed it's a TfL banner - assumed it was BWB.</p> <p>Very busy towpath - bikes and peds - we were fast where possible and slowed and even stopped at various points due to congestion.</p> <p>Used bell coming up behind a group of three women (not in a get out of my way sense), passed them fairly slowly. One woman loudly proclaimed "I didn't realise this was a motorway". "it's not, it's a shared use path" I say. "Oh I didn't realise that" she replied.</p> <p>At the time I took this to be further sarcasm, but perhaps not.</p> <p>My wife witnessed a couple of 'racers' Polwarth/Slateford way the other day. One was soaking wet. She surmised that they had been approaching each other from both sides of a bridge.</p> <p>Time for Spokes to re-launch <a href="http://www.politecycling.info" rel="nofollow">http://www.politecycling.info</a> and perhaps for BWB to print some "Thank you for slowing down" banners instead of the 6mph nonsense. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=3559#post-37346 Fri, 05 Aug 2011 10:29:17 +0000 LaidBack 37346@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>As cycle use rises so does conflict it seems.</p> <p> I 'had' to give way to a pavement cyclist whilst using the toucan crossing at the Valleyfield Street end of the Meadows North path.</p> <p>He said 'thank you'. Big guy on Apollo suspension bike. I was on tandem doing coop shop. He was moving at around 7mph. </p> <p>More 'born again' cyclists seem to swallow the line that all roads are dangerous. Those that want cycle training to go round parked cars etc are a minority. Some I reckon cycle only as last resort and want to share their pain! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=3559#post-37345 Fri, 05 Aug 2011 10:28:59 +0000 wingpig 37345@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Yes... although it's not illegal to be an Englishman on the footway, and not possible to instantly become a different nationality by dismounting and pushing.</p> <p><blockquote><em>"Although it's not what you're describing..."</em></blockquote></p> <p>Indeed. I'm talking about people steaming/hooning along who haven't started to check their speed despite being at least a safe stopping distance in front of me after the point when I've already started slowing down ready to ding anyway and who have often already demonstrated the passing-without-warning-or-slowing trick on someone else further back, after which I've caught them back up. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=3559#post-37344 Fri, 05 Aug 2011 10:20:08 +0000 Dave 37344@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>PS. following on from a recent thread, I have another word game for people to try when reading the "another cyclist did X" style complaint (however justified).</p> <p>Replace 'cyclist' with your country of origin, so that it reads e.g. "Sworn at by another Englishman this morning" (other countries are available). </p> <p>It's a healthy reminder that with everybody a potential cyclist, we shouldn't be too quick to out-group ourselves. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=3559#post-37343 Fri, 05 Aug 2011 10:16:23 +0000 Dave 37343@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"I usually find at least once every time I use the Roseburn-Newhaven paths that I have to proxy-ding for someone in front of me who looks like they have no intention of warning or slowing down to pass someone who appears to have no idea that there might be other people using the path."</p> <p>Although it's not what you're describing, quite often something similar happens to me me (since I don't have a bell) which I find quite annoying. </p> <p>There I am, having slowed down behind someone preparatory to them either moving naturally or me saying excuse me, when someone coming up behind 'bings them out of the way' on my behalf. Of course it looks to the ped like I'm hounding them as I don't expect they really notice that my bike hasn't got a bell fitted!</p> <p>I always make sure to use the whole space that opens up, slowly, so the following rider can't maintain their speed anyway, but I'm sure the punishment is lost on them.</p> <p>Like Anth, I consider ringing the bell to be equivalent to sounding the horn. I don't find it necessary to negotiate a path at any speed (if you are going to overtake me very quickly, I'd rather not know about it in advance as I might step the wrong way while trying to figure out what's going on). </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=3559#post-37341 Fri, 05 Aug 2011 09:59:32 +0000 steveo 37341@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Could very well have been Anth, what was the bike? Although since our office is closed today due to the sprinklers flooding the electrical system its probably unlikely. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=3559#post-37340 Fri, 05 Aug 2011 09:57:33 +0000 wingpig 37340@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Meanwhile, in another nearby financial institution's underground car park, cyclists were recently ordered by the building manager to walk their bikes through the car park after a couple of near-misses with motor cars. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=3559#post-37338 Fri, 05 Aug 2011 09:54:54 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 37338@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Interesting, you're not allowed to walk up the ramp? No such restrictions on us! Mwuhahahaha! Hmmm, this morning's lady could well work with you, hadn't thought of that, since she didn't turn into our car park. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=3559#post-37336 Fri, 05 Aug 2011 09:43:21 +0000 steveo 37336@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>In the interests of full disclosure I have in passed ridden up that part but i changed my route to come in from the other side because it was too busy there and I eneded up walking more often that not...</p> <p>Now most days i ride out the car park as described above, across the front of Exchange Place and down the lane towards cafe citron. I do this to avoid the one way and looping round Lothian Road or the fun that is Morrison Road at the moment. Its a <em>very </em>wide pavement and if there is an obstruction such as the big cherry picker that is often there i'll walk. But since we're not to walk on the ramp and its a good couple of hundred meters from the car park to the lights behind Exchange Place I just ride it.</p> <p>Having said that i've never had any conflict with any one, given many of the people I ride past in the evening are my colleagues/superiors/building management if there was any problem I'm sure me or one of the dozen or other cyclists from my office who do the same would have been told and a email circulated. My building management is not averse to sending snipy emails around.</p> <p>/dons flame proof clothing. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=3559#post-37334 Fri, 05 Aug 2011 09:40:01 +0000 mgj 37334@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Not having a bell, but an air-zound, I use voice mostly, for shared use, and the horn for in traffic.</p> <p>Coming down MMW behind a cyclist using the polite bell yesterday and it worked in most cases as pedestrians strayed into the 'bikes too' part, but not at the bottom, where I started a skid trying to avoid a couple of unaware peds (wet, tree debris, bottom of a steep hill) and gave a quick toot.</p> <p>Given the response Anth got, I reserve the right not to get out of pavement cyclists way, especially when wheeling my bike. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=3559#post-37332 Fri, 05 Aug 2011 09:32:12 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 37332@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"<em>I'd probably bellow "cyclist approaching" or "Look out!" whilst braking hard from 15-20 mph if a pedestrian stepped on to the road...</em>"</p> <p>I tihnk I'd just about manage a '<em>Whoooooaaaarrrrggghhhh!</em>' before thinking of letting the person know of the imminent arrival of a specific type of transport... ;) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=3559#post-37330 Fri, 05 Aug 2011 09:29:39 +0000 PS 37330@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>As ever, whether bell-use is interpreted as aggressive or not depends on the circumstances:</p> <p>On a shared path, where peds can expect cyclists, it's fine if you to ding the bell some distance away from the other users whose attention you are drawing your presence to, giving them plenty of warning.</p> <p>On a pavement, chances are you're a lot closer just given the dynamics of the situation, it's probably a tight squeeze and, er, you shouldn't be there, so a ding to say here I am rather than a dismount and walk is a bit much. </p> <p>Aggression is in the eye of the beholder. Obviously, if you follow it up with a "p!ss off" then the beholder's probably justified in their view. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=3559#post-37329 Fri, 05 Aug 2011 09:27:28 +0000 Roibeard 37329@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I'm a bit torn on the bell versus voice issue too - I usually opt for a conversational level "cyclist approaching (rear)", whilst dropping to walking speed.</p> <p>The kids have bells, but they tend to really give it some welly, but then again they also shout when emulating me, expecting the pedestrians to scatter...</p> <p>(They're a work in progress...)</p> <p>I've seen some pedestrians startled by a bell, but a voice seems less surprising - assuming the conversational tone of course!.</p> <p>To be honest, I've often done neither, just slotted in behind the pedestrian until they've become aware of me naturally, just as they would a faster pedestrian. Then gently passed when space allowed, just like a pedestrian.</p> <p>Perhaps it's a "like a pedestrian when on shared use, like a car when on road" idea - I'd probably bellow "cyclist approaching" or "Look out!" whilst braking hard from 15-20 mph if a pedestrian stepped on to the road... Better for both of us if a collision is avoided urgently!</p> <p>Even then it's a judgement call - a startled person can freeze or go any direction, so sometimes a smooth swoop behind their direction of travel can be the best.</p> <p>Hmmm, maybe best to say it's a judgement call, with no hard and fast rules, beyond civility and seeking the common good!</p> <p>;-)</p> <p>Robert </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=3559#post-37328 Fri, 05 Aug 2011 09:18:16 +0000 kaputnik 37328@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>What Instography said.</p> <p>My knee-jerk reaction probably would have been a counter-swear at her. </p> <p>I'd probably lose a fight with a middle aged woman though...</p> <p>Why was she cycling a bike into a car park? Is there a secret bike rack in there? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=3559#post-37327 Fri, 05 Aug 2011 09:18:15 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 37327@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>And again, just a personal thing, but I rode with a bell for a while (after buying a lovely Sogreni version) and found myself not using it, in favour of my spoken approach. I <em>personally</em> felt uncomfortable with the 'demand' the bell implied.</p> <p>Although, actually, on this one the Daily Wail peds and drivers would disagree with me given they all seem to have in the list of cyclist complaints that they don't have bells. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=3559#post-37326 Fri, 05 Aug 2011 09:17:48 +0000 wingpig 37326@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I find "get off the pavement" quite polite enough for someone cycling illegally on the pavement; I vary the tone depending on where it is and who it is.</p> <p>Do you have some sort of building manager you could report this to, so that they can remind all employees to approach the building safely and legally?</p> <p>On shared paths I ding from a reasonable distance just after I start to slow down, so that (if the target hears the ding) they see that I'm already slowing down. If it gets to the point where they still haven't heard by the time I'm going at their speed behind them I'll speak. I usually thank after passing. </p> <p>I realise that bell use is as subject to personal choice as other things which are a matter of personal choice but I usually find at least once every time I use the Roseburn-Newhaven paths that I have to proxy-ding for someone in front of me who looks like they have no intention of warning or slowing down to pass someone who appears to have no idea that there might be other people using the path. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=3559#post-37325 Fri, 05 Aug 2011 09:16:09 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 37325@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Should probably explain more my own personal method on sharded use paths. Simple really: slow down (the freewheel clicking sometimes makes people turn round anyway, squeaky brakes can also help...); say 'excuse me' in polite tones (not shouted - I'm going slowly enough that that's not necessary - a spoken 'ecuse me' can be heard from 10 yards easily); and a 'thank you'.</p> <p>Now, using the bell, then saying thank you, retains that personal connection which helps keep the whole transaction 'human'. But all too often the bell really is just a car horn for some people - ding. Ding ding. People move. Carry on past with nary a glance in the pedestrians direction.</p> <p>That's basically why speaking (not shouting) is the non-aggressive approach as far as I'm concerned.</p> <p>AND, to get back to the point, dinging on a pavement where you shouldn't be riding is <em>very</em> cheeky! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=3559#post-37324 Fri, 05 Aug 2011 09:07:51 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 37324@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Didn't say anywhere that I shout.... An 'excuse me' in exactly the same tone as if I was walking more quickly than the people ahead and, I presume, the same sort of volume at which you say 'thank you' when past...</p> <p>Put it another way, narrow road, car behind, beeps his horn for you to move over. Wherein lies the difference?</p> <p>(Threadshift within one post! Impressive!) </p>