http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: Meadows cyclists fined en Mon, 18 May 2026 06:21:43 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4082#post-42473 Tue, 04 Oct 2011 15:07:10 +0000 spytefear 42473@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@SRD - <em>"the way the community councils come up with their priority list is rubbish."</em><br /> And they way they let one person divert a path that 60-80 people out of 100+ voted for?<br /> <em>"just because these monthly meetings are held in public, does not give me the right to voice opinions or contribute to the discussions. I am just allowed to turn up once a year and vote in people to voice their opinions on my behalf ( or, if I was crazy, to run myself). "</em><br /> RUN! RUN! RUN! I'll vote for you!<br /> See you at the next community council meeting ;) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4082#post-42469 Tue, 04 Oct 2011 14:16:25 +0000 chdot 42469@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"Especially if it were evidence based."</p> <p>What do you have in mind? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4082#post-42468 Tue, 04 Oct 2011 14:16:04 +0000 crowriver 42468@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I am sure that Spokes and CTC engage with the police on a regular basis. Can't help if there are additional voices, mind. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4082#post-42467 Tue, 04 Oct 2011 14:12:37 +0000 amir 42467@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"Now that L&amp;BP have bothered to 'engage' (see above) it may be a good opportunity to talk about priorities and resources etc. "</p> <p>Especially if it were evidence based. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4082#post-42462 Tue, 04 Oct 2011 13:53:38 +0000 chdot 42462@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"We consult and work with local communities to act on their local concerns - they change every few months."</p> <p>Of course in this instance they mean geographical. They must consult other 'communities of interest' though.</p> <p>This forum doesn't represent anyone in any sort of definitive or democratic sense, but I think there is a general feeling that conditions on the road could be better and that some road/pavement users (including bicycle riders) need to be educated and/or told off/fined.</p> <p>There is probably some common view that people aren't <em>always</em> treated in a 'balanced' way by other road users, infrastructure providers and law enforcers.</p> <p>Now that L&amp;BP have bothered to 'engage' (<a href="http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4082#post-42461">see above</a>) it may be a good opportunity to talk about priorities and resources etc. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4082#post-42461 Tue, 04 Oct 2011 13:53:22 +0000 chdot 42461@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"<br /> LBP_Police: </p> <p>@CyclingEdin </p> <p>Next priority mtg for Meadows will be 2pm, 31 Oct, Eric Liddell Centre. Contact your community officers at <a href="http://t.co/A2BahfyO" rel="nofollow">http://t.co/A2BahfyO</a> </p> <p>Original Tweet: <a href="http://twitter.com/LBP_Police/status/121197104776478721" rel="nofollow">http://twitter.com/LBP_Police/status/121197104776478721</a></p> <p>"<br /> @LBP_Police </p> <p>Lothian and Borders</p> <p>Official channel of Lothian and Borders Police. This is not a crime-reporting tool. In non-emergencies phone 0131 311 3131. Always dial 999 in an emergency. </p> <p><a href="http://www.lbp.police.uk" rel="nofollow">http://www.lbp.police.uk</a></p> <p>" </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4082#post-42457 Tue, 04 Oct 2011 13:21:52 +0000 mgj 42457@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I'm sure they could; do you/we know that anyone has, formally, raised this, and there has been no action? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4082#post-42455 Tue, 04 Oct 2011 13:13:34 +0000 Dave 42455@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I can't tweet at work - but does that mean concerned local cyclists could ask for enforcement against dangerous drivers, and something would actually be done about it?</p> <p>(rhetorical question) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4082#post-42454 Tue, 04 Oct 2011 13:12:49 +0000 mgj 42454@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Well as a cyclist living in the area, underage drinking, other anti-social behaviour and pavement cycling are pretty much my priorities, because they are the offences I'm aware of; if I'd have been asked, because crime is very low and falling, and they are all quite visible offences. The Tory councillor has changed the force area down to Meadows to no doubt meet some agenda of his own. L&amp;B are pretty clear than it is 30 FPNs in the whole area that St Leonards is responsible for. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4082#post-42448 Tue, 04 Oct 2011 12:32:33 +0000 chdot 42448@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"<br /> LBP_Police: </p> <p>Hi @CyclingEdin We consult and work with local communities to act on their local concerns - they change every few months. </p> <p>Original Tweet: <a href="http://twitter.com/LBP_Police/status/121177688814788608" rel="nofollow">http://twitter.com/LBP_Police/status/121177688814788608</a> </p> <p>" </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4082#post-42422 Tue, 04 Oct 2011 10:56:36 +0000 chdot 42422@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"they will prioritize the 'community's' top 3 issues and tackle them"</p> <p>Reminds me of meetings (some years ago) when "The Environment" had moved far enough up 'the agenda' for the council to consult 'local people'.</p> <p>Such meetings were completely open and quite well attended.</p> <p>Some council officials were a bit disturbed to find that the top <em>environmental</em> concerns of 'ordinary' people were dog fouling and litter.</p> <p>To its credit CEC has done quite a lot to address these. Whether it does enough to deal with such things as energy efficiency or transport or land use is another matter - though clearly effective action is not always something local councils can implement or even influence. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4082#post-42420 Tue, 04 Oct 2011 10:48:28 +0000 SuzySuperJ 42420@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I've only ever seen two L&amp;BP officers on bikes in Edinburgh and they were "stationed" in the eastern side of the meadows just chatting and ignoring cars driving up to the lights and stopping in the advanced cycle section. Pretty useless.<br /> I got the following lack-lustre reply from LB&amp;P 01/08/11 when I specifically asked them about the number of officers on bikes and their strategy:<br /> <em>The City has 61 bikes and 67 Police Officers trained to use them, with an additional 10 trainers. There is no specific written policy/strategy on the use of pedal cycles by Police Officers; the officers will be deployed on the bikes when it is deemed appropriate, and as and when other operational commitments allow.</em><br /> #verydisappointingtosaytheleast </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4082#post-42419 Tue, 04 Oct 2011 10:38:59 +0000 Morningsider 42419@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Inconsiderate cycling is defined in Section 29 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 as "...cycling without reasonable consideration for other persons using the road" - a very broad definition that could be interpreted as almost anything. The maximum penalty for this is £1000 (on summary conviction). As far as I know it is always dealt with through fixed penalty notices.</p> <p>Unless I had been doing something daft I would probably refuse to pay any fixed penalty for inconsiderate cycling, as the crown is pretty unlikely to bother pursuing a prosecution. NOT LEGAL ADVICE - MY OPINION.</p> <p>Not that I'm excusing poor cycling, but I'm amazed the police consider this a local priority - looking around central Edinburgh they could probably focus on other issues. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4082#post-42418 Tue, 04 Oct 2011 10:37:59 +0000 SRD 42418@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>dave - my understanding is that the police have this idea that they will prioritize the 'community's' top 3 issues and tackle them. the problem is that they have no way of finding out what 'the community' thinks other than asking the community council members. </p> <p>And, as I am regularly reminded, just because these monthly meetings are held in public, does not give me the right to voice opinions or contribute to the discussions. I am just allowed to turn up once a year and vote in people to voice their opinions on my behalf ( or, if I was crazy, to run myself). </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4082#post-42417 Tue, 04 Oct 2011 10:35:34 +0000 wingpig 42417@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><blockquote><em>"Police bikes on main roads at 'rush' hour might be useful too."</em></blockquote></p> <p>Apart from a couple of notable occurrences elsewhere (I think I was moved to surprisedly tweet or note on the Spotted thread) I've mostly only seen officers of the human-powered wheelèd division pottering through the Meadows at an easy time of day. I don't think I've ever spotted them from a commute. I didn't get a reply any time I've emailed the police asking if the cycle patrols would like to patrol the murkier sections of off-road path more frequently; someone else might if we could compile a list of junctions they might find it instructive/lucrative to scoot round during busy times with the aim of identifying stupidness by motorist and cyclist alike. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4082#post-42416 Tue, 04 Oct 2011 10:34:02 +0000 chdot 42416@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"<br /> CyclingEdin: </p> <p>@LBP_Police How do you decide on "priorities" when targeting people who use #bicycles and #cars? <a href="http://t.co/LK1OVkiS" rel="nofollow">http://t.co/LK1OVkiS</a> #Edinburgh #cycling </p> <p>Original Tweet: <a href="http://twitter.com/CyclingEdin/status/121155311749971969" rel="nofollow">http://twitter.com/CyclingEdin/status/121155311749971969</a> </p> <p>" </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4082#post-42415 Tue, 04 Oct 2011 10:30:25 +0000 Dave 42415@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The number of fines is extremely small. </p> <p>2000 miles were ridden by the officers but only 30 fines given, which means they are having to patrol for an average distance of 66 miles in central Edinburgh between finding anything worth ticketing someone for. </p> <p>On the other hand, I agree with those who find it disturbing that cycling has somehow become a top enforcement priority, which means by definition that all other offences are being dealt with more leniently.</p> <p>It would be interesting to know how this rates as a priority amongst the general populace versus the subsection of the general populace who go to police community meetings. I suppose the police are powerless to be that discerning, and have to deal with the folk who actually turn up at these sort of things. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4082#post-42413 Tue, 04 Oct 2011 10:27:32 +0000 kaputnik 42413@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>If people are breaking laws and getting caught doing it, then more fool them. A sure way not to get done for careless or inconsiderate cycling on the pavement is not to cycle in a careless or inconsiderate manner. On the pavement.<br /> I see enough careless and inconsiderate cycling every day that if I had powers of special constable I'd be doing a roaring trade in fixed penalties.</p> <p>On the road? Well, they'll have to catch me first* :) And cycle during rush hour. And cycle on the road. </p> <p>To be honest I am of the opinion that the pedalplod don't really undertake what you might consider actually <em>properly</em> cycling around Edinburgh. I've seen them bumping along in the gutter in their hi-viz and pootling about the Meadows, but I think they'd have a much more productive time raking in the fixed penalty notices if they went "undercover" and tried to actually get from A to B during rush hour. The look on the face of the driver running into the ASL when he gets a tap on the window and flashed a warrant card would be priceless. Or perhaps L&amp;B have risk assessed that sort of thing as being too dangerous? </p> <p>Apparently the unit has 10 members, who have amassed 250 hours cycling in 4 months. That's about an hour and a half a week per officer. So it's hardly like there's a crack team of L&amp;Bs finest out with the sole purpose of victimising cyclists - compare with how many officers it takes to Police 90 minutes of the nation's "national game".</p> <p>* note - I like to think I cycle in a careful and considerate way and certainly don't try and break any laws or do anything that could result in me incurring the full fury of the "safer neighbourhood team". </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4082#post-42412 Tue, 04 Oct 2011 10:26:13 +0000 chdot 42412@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@PS</p> <p>Agree with why some people are more concerned about cyclists passing close on pavements (illegal) or paths (probably legal - but "inconsiderate" enough to be "warned").</p> <p>Bigger question is the relative balance between things that 'bother' people - and the extent to which they are 'important' - and the need for the Police to be seen to be doing things in order to increase/maintain public confidence/support.</p> <p>It's not easy to even <em>attempt</em> to balance.</p> <p>The Police operate in a society where car use is seen as normal and, largely, desirable. Arguably they don't help by their own use of vehicles and (previous) resistance to using bikes.</p> <p>Let's hope we see more bikes in use in general policing and not just ghettoised into dealing with errant cyclists.</p> <p>Police bikes on main roads at 'rush' hour might be useful too. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4082#post-42410 Tue, 04 Oct 2011 10:21:20 +0000 wingpig 42410@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The full where-and-what list of the offences would be interesting. Hopefully it's not all just people going onto the island opposite the south end of MMW to go and press the crossing-trigger button or illegally crossing the segregation-line to get round clumps of peds.</p> <p>The single half-hearted frothing comment looks lonely. It might even have been added by a bot that's spotted a cycling story. It's not clear whether they've noticed that this report proves that cyclists <u>are</u> subject to the attentions of polices. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4082#post-42408 Tue, 04 Oct 2011 10:09:08 +0000 PS 42408@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>"I suggest that most such people regard cars and driving as completely normal and accept various levels of transgressions as inevitable."</em></p> <p>I suspect they also feel insulated from cars to some extent as cars are the road and peds are on the pavement. Inconsiderate cyclists (however that is defined) can be in much greater proximity to potential complainants, thereby causing much more shock/surprise/sense of injustice, especially in the Meadows where there are shared ped/cycle paths. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4082#post-42407 Tue, 04 Oct 2011 10:01:41 +0000 SRD 42407@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>yup. this is my experience. police turn up at community council meeting and are obliged to say 'we want to know your priorities' and people say 'pavement cycling' right off the bat. and thus, the police are obliged to divert resources to this. </p> <p>of course, i think having police out on bikes is GREAT! but the way the community councils come up with their priority list is rubbish. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4082#post-42406 Tue, 04 Oct 2011 09:49:07 +0000 chdot 42406@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>From Tollcross link -</p> <p>"Careless and inconsiderate cycling has been identified as a Local Priority in the area and the Cycle Unit has been targetting cyclists that abuse the pavements and roads."</p> <p>This of course raises the whole question of what the Police are for and how much they should respond to genuine public concerns. </p> <p>And of course the concerns of people who go to Community Council meetings (etc.) and have their views and values influenced by person experiences and perceptions of reality. </p> <p>I suggest that most such people regard cars and driving as completely normal and accept various levels of transgressions as inevitable.</p> <p>Of course (quite reasonable) there <em>is</em> concern about pavement and double parking, but - ironically - these are (in general) no longer 'police matters'! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4082#post-42403 Tue, 04 Oct 2011 09:32:52 +0000 amir 42403@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I have never seen patrols for inconsiderate driving, e.g. rushing out onto roundabouts, splashing and spraying pedestrians in the wet, etc. </p> <p>Mind you I have not seen much action on dangerous driving (list of examples to long to bother with). I guess there is the potential for FoI request, especially to compare the relative efforts compared to accident statistics. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4082#post-42402 Tue, 04 Oct 2011 09:31:44 +0000 chdot 42402@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"This is not helpful by the Tory councillor."</p> <p>Just repeating the News...</p> <p>"POLICE bike units have given 30 cyclists in the Meadows area £30 fixed penalties during the last two months, new figures have shown." </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4082#post-42401 Tue, 04 Oct 2011 09:31:33 +0000 Arellcat 42401@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>All too easy to presume "Meadows" for "Meadows area", while the cycle Police are actually covering the [whole of the] St Leonards district.</p> <p>It would be interesting to know if the police identified and issued fines against 30 or more cases of similarly bad driving in the same period. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4082#post-42400 Tue, 04 Oct 2011 09:26:00 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 42400@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Hmmm, 30 cyclists in the last 2 months. I wonder wonder wonder if there were specific patrols seeking out driving offences if the number would be so low...</p> <p>Not saying this shouldn't be done, just, y'know, perspective. I wonder what constitutes 'inconsiderate' cycling.</p> <p>Anyway, looks like the trolls missed it on Monday as well. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4082#post-42399 Tue, 04 Oct 2011 09:24:14 +0000 mgj 42399@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Absolutely nothing to do with the Meadows in the original press release from L&amp;B on the Community Council website. <a href="http://cc.tollcross.org/Home/police-news-and-information/newsletter-marchmont-beat-sm46/2011/beat-sm46-sep-2011" rel="nofollow">http://cc.tollcross.org/Home/police-news-and-information/newsletter-marchmont-beat-sm46/2011/beat-sm46-sep-2011</a></p> <p>This is not helpful by the Tory councillor. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4082#post-42398 Tue, 04 Oct 2011 09:00:14 +0000 SRD 42398@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>oops. I overtook a slow-moving police van this morning.... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4082#post-42395 Tue, 04 Oct 2011 08:17:42 +0000 chdot 42395@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"<br /> cameronrose: </p> <p>Local newsblog Fine time for cyclists: Police have been issuing fines for cycling offences in the Meadows area r... <a href="http://t.co/d2B7X6VD" rel="nofollow">http://t.co/d2B7X6VD</a> </p> <p>Original Tweet: <a href="http://twitter.com/cameronrose/status/121109827605897216" rel="nofollow">http://twitter.com/cameronrose/status/121109827605897216</a> </p> <p>"</p> <p><a href="http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/topstories/Pedal-police-dish-fines.6845945.jp">ENews story on Monday</a> (missed that!) </p>