http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: Spokes Autumn Public Meeting November 17th: now with cool merchandise en Mon, 22 Jun 2026 16:52:10 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4379&page=2#post-47709 Wed, 23 Nov 2011 15:04:13 +0000 DaveC 47709@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I received my SPOKES membership stuff yesterday. In it is a leaflet with SRD outside some Gov't meeting handing out cycle related stuff. SRD, you're famous!!!</p> <p>Anyone else spotted any CCE in print? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4379&page=2#post-47196 Fri, 18 Nov 2011 22:46:18 +0000 chdot 47196@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>One Oxford street with car parking removed and cycle parking added!</p> <p><a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/chdot/6358081839/"><img src="http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6058/6358081839_6c9dc62975.jpg"></a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4379&page=2#post-47150 Fri, 18 Nov 2011 15:30:49 +0000 amir 47150@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Thanks DaveC. Very interesting. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4379&page=2#post-47145 Fri, 18 Nov 2011 15:14:06 +0000 DaveC 47145@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@chdot, Yes, there was no one else from the City council. It was actually only a 'perhaps'.... He should be called Mr Teflon... like an ex manager of mine!! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4379&page=2#post-47144 Fri, 18 Nov 2011 15:13:55 +0000 LaidBack 47144@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>Laidback - the lane on Princes Street is not a cycle lane!</em></p> <p>Yes of course. If it was a 'real' bike lane it would be a tenth of the width. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4379&page=2#post-47120 Fri, 18 Nov 2011 13:00:08 +0000 chdot 47120@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"Appologies for long post."</p> <p>No need.</p> <p>Very useful.</p> <p>"It was also admitted at one point that there may be a car bias in the council by their officers"</p> <p>BY GM?? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4379&page=2#post-47106 Fri, 18 Nov 2011 12:25:26 +0000 DaveC 47106@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Laidback - the lane on Princes Street is not a cycle lane!</p> <p>Appologies for long post.</p> <p>Spokes Meeting.</p> <p>Present Richard Mann - Transport Consultant<br /> Gordon Mackenzie - Councilor</p> <p>The meting started off with introductions and followed by Richard Mann. Richard gave a presentation on how Oxford had developed its cycling infrastructure and its aims.</p> <p>Richard gave a good talk highlighting that cycling should be promoted for all ages - illustrating this with Shakespeare’s seven ages of man, infant, schoolboy, lover, soldier, justice, pantaloon, and second childhood,</p> <p>He tailored this for our purposes: Infant, Toddler, Child, Teenager, Young Adult, Middle aged Adult &amp;Senior citizen. Only by focusing on developing infrastructure for all ages would cycling be available for all. So on the outer suburbs they have 20mph zones in side streets, and arranged parking to slow traffic down - i.e. staggering parking in blocks zigzagging either side - not all on one side so<br /> traffic can't see too far ahead and so reduces its speed.</p> <p>On the main routes in to the center where possible they have solid white lines with no extra colouring (though later on he admitted Oxford have to opposite colour scheme to Edinburgh - Green = cycle &amp; Red = Bus). Most vehicle lanes have been narrowed to enable the inclusion of cycle lanes. This means cycle space is provided (and shown visibly to vehicles) and lanes narrowed so slowing down motor vehicles as they have less space, so feel confined and constricted. Parking is off to the side with cycle lanes between parking and motor vehicle lanes, to unimpeded cycling.</p> <p>They have liberal use of double yellow lines with no colouring in most main road cycle lanes so double yellows are a visible deterrent to parking. They are confined with parking in the center so they have pushed this removing more parking fro the center. This meaning less traffic heads for the center, as there is no where to stop. In most of the city they have residential parking so people living there have parking provision. On the outskirts they have Park and Ride for cars coming in from outside the city.</p> <p>To attract cycling they aim to reduce speed of motor traffic so cycling feels safer. The idea is as cars drive slower the drivers notice more, like pedestrians and cyclists, so they are more conscious of other road users and tend to slow down even more. (This got me thinking, when I was taught to drive - I was told to look as far ahead as possible and not to look at what was right in front of me. This was a result of me trying to over compensate for steering and stay in the lane. The idea of looking as far ahead was so my steering would take care of its self and I would notice what is coming up ahead of time so I could react in time. Perhaps this could be tailored for inner city driving so we DO notice what is right in front of us?) Back on topic.</p> <p>The whole emphasis of there cycle infrastructure was to reduce motor vehicle speeds. They have 20mph limits but admitted that like Edinburgh the police were unable to enforce the rule. But the fact that the signs were up had an affect on drivers - slowing them down. </p> <p>You can follow Richard on twitter @ParadiseOxford</p> <p>Following on was Gordon Mackenzie, the CCE transport convener. Gordon had a few slides showing the councils progress with existing infrastructure and future infrastructure planned. Gordon's talk was short as he was conscious that there were lots of questions.</p> <p>Questions, ASL - Why do some junctions have ASLs and some not? Why are ASLs not enforced? There was a discussion on the Porty Prom with a couple of the members having different ideas of how far the prom changes were - and some mis information? What came out was Cycling has been legal for around 6 years but the local council were only just aware of this? and were still arranging for signage to be made and erected. Questions were asked about vehicles parking in bus/cycle lanes and no enforcement being applied. Oxford didn't have this problem according to Richard as cycle lanes are continuous and there is no parking in any cycle or bus lanes instead as said earlier between the cycle lane and the kerb - so to uninterrupt the flow. Gordon appeared to be making notes and said this was under the remit of the police and that if the parliament changed the law they would start monitoring bus lane parking by ANPR cameras – though they only have 10 at the moment. Some members made comments which were not actually questions, and some members questioned the differences between Oxford and Edinburgh.</p> <p>My personal opinion, It was a good evening and I will attend future meetings if I can. Most of Richard's ideas were good but how they could be scaled and how successful they could be - I don't know. Certainly like the A8 and A71, large sections of the A90 could be narrowed for bus lanes and hence cycle provision. I didn't get an opportunity to say this. It was also admitted at one point that there may be a car bias in the council by their officers..... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4379&page=2#post-47098 Fri, 18 Nov 2011 11:54:08 +0000 LaidBack 47098@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>With regards car use.....<br /> </em><br /> Edinburgh still has less car owning households than UK norm. In fact you'll probably find that Oxford (and Amsterdam) has higher car ownership. Partly down to living in tenements as finding street parking close to home is tricky - hence double parking on many streets.</p> <p>People will use whatever is convenient and if the centre of the city was restricted I would imagine it would thrive more (as do may continental cities).</p> <p><em>The temporary long cycle lane that has been installed along Princes Street shows what can be done ; - )</em> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4379&page=2#post-47096 Fri, 18 Nov 2011 11:53:44 +0000 PS 47096@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I didn't make it along due to a whole slew of factors. Was it an interesting discussion?</p> <p>And the Spokes buff? Appalling southside bias, yet again. ;-) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4379&page=2#post-47094 Fri, 18 Nov 2011 11:41:52 +0000 SRD 47094@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>picture on <a href="http://www.spokes.org.uk/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/spwkr11.11.11.pdf">page 2</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4379&page=2#post-47092 Fri, 18 Nov 2011 11:38:52 +0000 cb 47092@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>A map on a Buff? Does this mean you can plan an endless journey? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4379&page=2#post-47089 Fri, 18 Nov 2011 10:55:43 +0000 DaveC 47089@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I bought a new buff (to be delivered) which has the spokes map printed on. So if you see me cycling along with it fully covering my face, I'm not cold, just lost!! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4379&page=2#post-47012 Thu, 17 Nov 2011 15:52:19 +0000 SRD 47012@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Another slightly odd thing about both Oxford and Cambridge is that their rail stations are not that central (unlike Leeds and Edinburgh) . Wonder if that opens up more possibilities. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4379&page=2#post-47009 Thu, 17 Nov 2011 15:47:32 +0000 DaveC 47009@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Cambridge is similar. The centre is closed to traffic bar busses and taxis. When I lived in Leeds the closed Brigate which was the main BUS highway through the city. Headrow (east - west) was closed also but in a guided bus stylee with a large central reservation, open only to busses. It really opened up the city centre. The down side was a huge Motorway circular on the north edge of the city centre. Fortunately most of it was sub street level so it was a cut through the opposite to Glasgows raised motorway.</p> <p>I think they should have pedestrianised Princes St, closing Queen Street to private vehicles and routed busses along there. George St should be a pedestrian only street also. They could put a tunnel between the train and bus stations, or as its pully pedestrianised walking bewteen the two would be no problem. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4379&page=2#post-47003 Thu, 17 Nov 2011 15:14:55 +0000 SRD 47003@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Oxford now also has a lot more roads in centre closed to through traffic/pedestrianised. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4379&page=2#post-47001 Thu, 17 Nov 2011 15:09:07 +0000 SRD 47001@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>yes, in north/central oxford you have less of the 'rat-run' mentality. (although south Oxford is less good that way. ). </p> <p>actually, I do wonder how much of what he describes fits north/central oxford better than south. there is/was still a lot of parking on roads in south/east oxford - eg cowley rd [where i had car door opened into me at speed). Luckily we lived on a street that was only a through route for peds/bikes, which meant we avoided the worst. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4379&page=2#post-46997 Thu, 17 Nov 2011 14:59:35 +0000 chdot 46997@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"<br /> ParadiseOxford: </p> <p>@CyclingEdin Speed reduction is an important part of the equation. Especially on main roads. Easier than traffic reduction. </p> <p>Original Tweet: <a href="http://twitter.com/ParadiseOxford/status/137166575445868544" rel="nofollow">http://twitter.com/ParadiseOxford/status/137166575445868544</a> </p> <p>" </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4379&page=2#post-46989 Thu, 17 Nov 2011 14:40:57 +0000 Kim 46989@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>SRD hit the nail squarely on the head "We have the good bus service here, but NOT the political acceptance to limiting car use." </p> <p>Until we start to restrict motor vehicle use in the city, we will continue to suffer from the over use of motor vehicle, with all the associated problems, ill health, premature death, massive cost, economic drag, etc...</p> <p>This city could easily be the best in the world, if only we let it be, we have so much to gain and so little to loose. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4379&page=2#post-46986 Thu, 17 Nov 2011 14:23:34 +0000 chdot 46986@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>From SRD's link -</p> <p>"Starting in the seventies, cycle lanes and bus lanes have been marked on most of Oxford’s main roads. Oxford was one of the first cities to put in cycle lanes, and found that it could be done safely, as long as (1) the cycle lanes were continuous across side roads, and (2) a reasonable amount of room was left around parking."</p> <p>From SRD -</p> <p>"We have the good bus service here, but NOT the political acceptance to limiting car use."</p> <p>QUITE!! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4379#post-46983 Thu, 17 Nov 2011 14:04:37 +0000 SRD 46983@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Dual cycle network: link <a href="http://www.transportparadise.co.uk/2011/07/dual-cycle-network/">here </a> to map showing "The main roads – in red – form the basis of the main cycle routes, typically using bus or cycle lanes. The quiet routes – in blue – make a connected network for those who want or need to avoid traffic."</p> <p>the thing is those red roads are BIG roads for oxford, the equiv of dalkeith road/lothian/morningside etc. they have a lot of buses and go past where most people work in the city centre, the unis, the publishers, the schools and the train station. But what is different from edinburgh is that there is almost no parking in the city centre. If you go to visit OUP, for example, they will not tell you where to park. When we stayed recently at the <a href="http://www.club.ox.ac.uk/">University Club</a> they make it very clear that they have no parking, except for disabled visitors - and this was a condition of their recent expansion and development.</p> <p><a href="http://www.cyclox.org/what-we-say/dual-network/">Here is more of a discussion</a>. some salient points : "Parking on main roads has mostly been removed".."The bus lanes (and bus priority lights) mean that buses get significant priority over cars. "..."political acceptance that car-access can be actively discouraged [because of good bus service], to the point that there are considerably fewer cars on the main roads than you might expect.".</p> <p>We have the good bus service here, but NOT the political acceptance to limiting car use. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4379#post-46981 Thu, 17 Nov 2011 13:55:51 +0000 chdot 46981@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"<br /> En route to Edinburgh, which is developing a dual cycle network like Oxford's. Hear more about it at Spokes public meeting tonight.</p> <p>"</p> <p>Not quite sure what he means about "dual cycle network"...</p> <p>(He's the 'speaker from Oxford')</p> <p>Richard Mann (<a href="https://twitter.com/paradiseoxford">@ParadiseOxford</a>)</p> <p>"Transport/LiveableCities consultant. Main mode of transport: bicycle. Likes: buses as well. Devised Oxford's dual cycle network, and put it on OpenStreetMap"</p> <p><a href="http://www.transportparadise.co.uk" rel="nofollow">http://www.transportparadise.co.uk</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4379#post-46960 Thu, 17 Nov 2011 12:17:38 +0000 DaveC 46960@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I'm in civies today. The wife said I wiff, in my 2 day old cycle clothes. I'll cyc in again tomorrow but today will be wearing Blue jeans and a black puffer jacket. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4379#post-46828 Wed, 16 Nov 2011 12:43:15 +0000 PS 46828@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I should really add that there's never been any evidence of damage or tinkering with the lock, so I don't have any concerns with leaving my bike there. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4379#post-46813 Wed, 16 Nov 2011 11:59:00 +0000 DaveC 46813@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Cheers, I have a D Lock (through rear wheel &amp; frame) and a cable to loop through the front wheel. I'll be on the Green Dawes Galaxy PS if you want to fasten it to mine. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4379#post-46807 Wed, 16 Nov 2011 11:40:11 +0000 PS 46807@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>There are a load of sheffield stands installed along George IV Bridge now (both in front of the National Library and on t'other side of the road). That's where I'll be leaving mine. </p> <p>I've left my bike chained up outside the National Library of an evening while I've been to gigs at the Liquid Room and each time it's been disturbed (moved from leaning against the stand to leaning away from it supported by the chain), but whether that's an opportunist theft attempt or student "hijinks" I do not know. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4379#post-46805 Wed, 16 Nov 2011 11:29:18 +0000 chdot 46805@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"Rails outside the church for most I think."</p> <p>And opposite (ornate bridge parapet). </p> <p>LOTS of racks nearer libraries. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4379#post-46804 Wed, 16 Nov 2011 11:25:46 +0000 SRD 46804@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Rails outside the church for most I think. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4379#post-46801 Wed, 16 Nov 2011 11:17:29 +0000 DaveC 46801@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>SRD, Is there secure bike parking? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4379#post-46788 Wed, 16 Nov 2011 10:38:15 +0000 SRD 46788@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>TThey're just taking orders at the meeting. Email DdF and I'm sure you can put an order in in advance. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4379#post-46785 Wed, 16 Nov 2011 10:31:22 +0000 Arellcat 46785@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>DaveC, SRD, I would very much like some of the merchandise but I've decided I need to defer to my meeting in Glasgow that evening. Will the merch be available after the Spokes meeting? </p>