http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: MPs to debate motion calling for halt in petrol prices en Sun, 31 May 2026 18:15:05 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4419&page=2#post-50812 Tue, 20 Dec 2011 16:40:52 +0000 Morningsider 50812@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Kaputnik - yes. The current franchise was set up when SPT had full rail powers. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4419&page=2#post-50811 Tue, 20 Dec 2011 16:22:35 +0000 crowriver 50811@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>The RPI+1% increase applies only to regulated fares. First Group can set the other fares as they see fit.</em></p> <p>I'd be very surprised if they did not increase unregulated fares too. They did last time.</p> <p>I suppose I'll find out soon, when I book my advance tickets for next month's commute... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4419&page=2#post-50809 Tue, 20 Dec 2011 15:54:37 +0000 kaputnik 50809@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I take it the regulation of all fares in Strathclyde is some sort of throwback to SPT days? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4419&page=2#post-50808 Tue, 20 Dec 2011 15:46:18 +0000 Morningsider 50808@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>There are two types of ScotRail fare:</p> <p>Regulated: All season tickets,off-peak returns, all fares in Strathclyde, standard singles and day returns in the Edinburgh commuter area.</p> <p>Unregulated: Everything else.</p> <p>The RPI+1% increase applies only to regulated fares. First Group can set the other fares as they see fit. </p> <p>ScotRail fare income was £259m in 2010-11, with Scottish Government subsidy to ScotRail of £290m plus a further £315m to Network Rail. I suppose the questions is, what is a fair balance between taxpayer and passenger support for rail. (Needless to say - I think the industry is very inefficient due to its current structure but the UK Government has no plans to change this, so we are where we are). </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4419&page=2#post-50807 Tue, 20 Dec 2011 15:39:23 +0000 kaputnik 50807@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Sorry original point of post was a bit lost in my own translation - was more around media / political reaction (or lack of) to this than anything. I wasn't coming from the point of view of rail fairs <em>shouldn't</em> be going up in line with inflation.</p> <p>In other news. Chancellor has announced a whopping <strong>NOUGHT PERCENT</strong> increase in the price of cycling fares :D </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4419&page=2#post-50803 Tue, 20 Dec 2011 15:07:57 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 50803@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Should have put a '?' at the end of my last post. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4419&page=2#post-50802 Tue, 20 Dec 2011 15:03:20 +0000 Baldcyclist 50802@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>So, essentially, if the fuel increases were halted, the rail fares would still go up.</em></p> <p>Yes, minus the proportion of the fuel increase accounted for in the inflation index. So for example if fuel increase accounted for 2% (made up figure) of the inflation, then the rise would be 3.2% + up to 1%. Instead of the 5.2% + 0.8% increase now. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4419&page=2#post-50800 Tue, 20 Dec 2011 14:36:50 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 50800@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>So, essentially, if the fuel increases were halted, the rail fares would <em>still</em> go up. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4419&page=2#post-50799 Tue, 20 Dec 2011 13:46:40 +0000 crowriver 50799@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>From the Guardian:</p> <p><em>Public funding for the railways has dropped by a third since 2006/07, while the money raised through fares has steadily increased. Currently, passengers contribute about £6.5bn and taxpayers £4bn a year to the running of the railways.</p> <p>Atoc said that for every pound of income train companies receive, just 3p goes to train company profit. This compares to 48p that goes to Network Rail (which charges operators to run trains on the tracks), 17p on staff costs, and 17p on miscellaneous costs such as train maintenance, administration and contractors.</p> <p>But Bob Crow, general secretary of the RMT transport union, said: "The train operating companies are laughing all the way to the bank. Independent analysis by government departments has proven that the fare increases are trousered by the shareholders of the private companies, while passengers pay through the nose to travel in rammed and creaking carriages."</p> <p>The government has yet to decide whether the planned rises in 2013 and 2014 of RPI plus three percentage points will go ahead.</em></p> <p><a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/dec/20/rail-fares-rise" rel="nofollow">http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/dec/20/rail-fares-rise</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4419&page=2#post-50798 Tue, 20 Dec 2011 13:34:50 +0000 crowriver 50798@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>From the article: <em>Fare rises are linked to inflation, which is currently 5.2% as measured by the Retail Prices Index.<br /> ScotRail is able to increase regulated fares by the Retail Prices Index, plus 1%.</em></p> <p>Essentially it's an arbitrary formula, not necessarily linked to the train operator's actual costs, which may or may not increase the same amount. Hence perhaps First Group's profits from rail operations? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4419&page=2#post-50794 Tue, 20 Dec 2011 13:12:28 +0000 Dave 50794@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I've long believed that what is really needed is fuel prices that track consumption. For example, why do we pay through the nose for the first X units of electricity (which are inevitable if we want to own a freezer and be able to see for half the year indoors), but once we're using enough, we may as well leave everything on because the unit price becomes so low?</p> <p>Ditto with petrol. It should be much more expensive but with a rebate system to encourage the right kind of change. Imagine if it was £2 a litre but the government gave you £1/litre back for the equivalent of one tank a month, etc. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4419&page=2#post-50792 Tue, 20 Dec 2011 13:05:49 +0000 Baldcyclist 50792@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Is the increase in rail fares not down to (at least a large part), ahem, fuel increases?<br /> Fuel increases impact on everything we do/buy/heat etc etc.<br /> Lots of folk (and on here too!) are complaining about the increasing cost of living which a large proportion of is down to the increasing cost of fuel.</p> <p>Yes, we need to get folks out of their cars (and onto public transport), but simply increasing the price of fuel by taxation isn't the way to do it! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4419&page=2#post-50789 Tue, 20 Dec 2011 12:28:19 +0000 chdot 50789@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cv5BYEOQYLo" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cv5BYEOQYLo</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4419&page=2#post-50786 Tue, 20 Dec 2011 12:23:10 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 50786@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>There's a <em><strong>war</em></strong> on the motorist y'know... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4419&page=2#post-50785 Tue, 20 Dec 2011 12:16:34 +0000 kaputnik 50785@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Meanwhile - <a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-16261330">ScotRail increases fares by 6% from January</a><br /> <em>Rail passengers in Scotland will face fare increases of 6% from January.</em></p> <p>No army of Daily Wail correspondents and Tory MPs outside number 10 with the pitchforks and burning torches demanding that this particular cost of transport increase should be cancelled... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4419&page=2#post-46706 Tue, 15 Nov 2011 16:56:50 +0000 minus six 46706@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Some gadge in the House of Commons is insisting that reducing fuel duty amounts to "social justice"</p> <p>Hypocrisy and doublespeak. Appalling rhetoric. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4419&page=2#post-46687 Tue, 15 Nov 2011 16:10:10 +0000 Morningsider 46687@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>MrA - welcome, big step making that first post.</p> <p>You have raised an issue I have been thinking about over the last few days, i.e. "I just don't get it". Bear with me here - I was at party in a leafy suburb of Glasgow last weekend and was surprised to be subjected to lots of anti-cyclist nonsense from various party-goers. Obviously, I demolished all their points with Wildean style but was surprised at how common these views seemed. It go me thinking - is there a "suburban/car oriented" mindset and an "urban/cyclist" mindset and does people's choice of home location (in as far as they have a choice) influence transport choices, even when cycling/walking and public transport are viable options. </p> <p>Lots of my friends and family live in fairly high density urban locations and many cycle and/or walk regularly and car use is fairly restricted. However, the party goers were generally suburban types, many with long work commutes. Obviously, there are exceptions - but many people seemed to fall into one of these two groups. </p> <p>Lot's more to consider here - anyone agree with this or had I just had too much to drink at the party (hic). </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4419&page=2#post-46686 Tue, 15 Nov 2011 15:55:35 +0000 amir 46686@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Welcome Mr A.</p> <p>In the end driving is a matter of personal choice. But it would be much better if cyclists and cycling were seen as very good for society instead of often being treated as the enemy. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4419&page=2#post-46684 Tue, 15 Nov 2011 15:49:40 +0000 MrA 46684@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Long time listener, first time caller here.<br /> I just listened to the R4 you and yours programme about this and it made me so angry! Cycling was <strong>never</strong> mentioned as a real transport alternative. In fact, it was only mentioned by a commenter who referred to 'smug' cyclists who contribute 'nothing' to the nations coffers and said that if everyone got on their bikes tomorrow morning they'd have to shut down the NHS!<br /> You had all these stories about people who absolutely need a car to drive to the nearest shops, all of two miles away! I kept waiting for cycling to be discussed as a transport option for these people but it never came up. I even listened to the show again after it was mentioned here that a forum member had been on. I just don't understand why people can't see cycling as a real option.<br /> There will probably be a call in on the obesity problem next, but nobody will make the connection.<br /> I just don't get it. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4419&page=2#post-46679 Tue, 15 Nov 2011 14:43:02 +0000 DaveC 46679@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>What happened to drivers being threatened with fines for leaving engines running in Edinburgh?</p> <p><a href="http://www.scotsman.com/news/drivers_facing_idling_engine_fines_1_895552" rel="nofollow">http://www.scotsman.com/news/drivers_facing_idling_engine_fines_1_895552</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4419&page=2#post-46670 Tue, 15 Nov 2011 14:13:08 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 46670@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"an unfolded buggy may occupy" not an unfoldable buggy</p> <p>Was speaking about this with someone at work just the other day, same thing had happened to her sister. No-one in teh wheelchair/buggy space, very quiet bus altogether, was refused boarding because the buggy didn't fold. Offered to get off if someone needed the space. Still refused. And this was <em>after</em> having got into town using the same bus service (different driver).</p> <p>Serious complaint lodged apparently. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4419&page=2#post-46669 Tue, 15 Nov 2011 14:08:11 +0000 chdot 46669@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"Who was it and what did they say?"</p> <p>I could tell you, but...</p> <p>Due to the degree of anonimity that user names allow I won't say - not being difficult. </p> <p>Most people on here know someone or other 'in person' but continue to use CCE names on here. </p> <p>Obviously on radio he used his real name. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4419&page=2#post-46667 Tue, 15 Nov 2011 13:57:11 +0000 cb 46667@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"Forum member just been on R4 You and Yours talking about just this!"</p> <p>That in itself is only slightly interesting. Who was it and what did they say? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4419&page=2#post-46664 Tue, 15 Nov 2011 13:53:20 +0000 DaveC 46664@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Interesting gopram on R4 about this right now. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4419&page=2#post-46662 Tue, 15 Nov 2011 13:51:59 +0000 cb 46662@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-15734115">Rural fuel discount due in spring, promises Scots MP</a></p> <p>"A special discount on the cost of fuel for people who live in remote island communities will be in place by spring next year, a Scottish MP has promised." </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4419#post-46656 Tue, 15 Nov 2011 13:27:13 +0000 Stepdoh 46656@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>"an unfolded buggy may occupy"</em> not an unfoldable buggy. Is a recent change, some of the onboard signage doesn't even comply with it.</p> <p>Despite protestations, other half has been turned away for that reason, has kind of put her off the buses entirely as she's not keen to face a grilling from the driver as to whether she'll be allowed on or not.</p> <p>Plus could be put in the situation where she gets up town, then can't get back down again. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4419#post-46653 Tue, 15 Nov 2011 13:23:21 +0000 SRD 46653@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"it's got to fold in one single piece." </p> <p>really? hadn't heard that. can see the problem (although honestly wee babies can go in a Maclaren)</p> <p>BUT, have just looked at LB conditions of carriage and it appears to say that the 'foldable in one piece' thing refers to the wheelchair space, not the buggy space:</p> <p>"If there is no wheelchair user on the bus, other passengers including those travelling with a foldable buggy or with bulky luggage may occupy the wheelchair space. By “foldable” we mean collapsible as<br /> a single unit and therefore not of the type which can be dismantled into a wheeled frame with one or more other separate elements. Whenever the space is needed by a wheelchair user, other passengers must move to make it available. On those buses which also have a<br /> designated buggy space, an unfolded buggy may occupy that space."</p> <p>Does not appear to say that chassis/pram concepts are banned at all, just that they are not allowed in the wheelchair space. Suppose it depends on which bus lines serve you. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4419#post-46651 Tue, 15 Nov 2011 13:22:59 +0000 chdot 46651@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Forum member just been on R4 You and Yours talking about just this! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4419#post-46650 Tue, 15 Nov 2011 13:20:30 +0000 chdot 46650@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"don't be too harsh on the rural drivers"</p> <p>I wasn't being (apart from commenting on extra miles due to improved roads). </p> <p>I'm sure it's no fun 'stuck' in rural areas on low/no wages. </p> <p>I was complaining about the people who use such people (inevitably a relatively small number) as a reason why <em>everyone</em> should have cheap(er) fuel. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4419#post-46648 Tue, 15 Nov 2011 13:17:02 +0000 spitters 46648@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I'm staying out of this one.</p> <p>Oh b**** </p>