http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: Change coming to Charlotte Square? en Thu, 21 May 2026 16:23:20 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4643#post-49392 Tue, 06 Dec 2011 12:51:30 +0000 crowriver 49392@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>but will they take bicycles into account?<br /> Doesn't look like it in this<br /> <a href="https://citydev-portal.edinburgh.gov.uk/portal/getEdmDoc?docid=512265443" rel="nofollow">https://citydev-portal.edinburgh.gov.uk/portal/getEdmDoc?docid=512265443</a></em></p> <p>Anyone alerted Spokes to this application yet? If not, I will. Let us know though because I don't want to pester the volunteers with e-mails more than is necessary. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4643#post-49377 Tue, 06 Dec 2011 12:03:22 +0000 Min 49377@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>"•the wedges were on the right, so you didn't risk walking into your chain going up<br /> •the wedges changed to the right at the top of this section (they don't) so you have a reasonable turning radius, as opposed to twice the railing width<br /> •the wedges were on both sides, so two cyclists can pass."</em></p> <p>I was far too impressed to find wedges at all here to notice that they were on the "wrong" side in some way. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4643#post-49364 Tue, 06 Dec 2011 11:36:07 +0000 kaputnik 49364@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>edit - wrong trousers Gromit! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4643#post-49363 Tue, 06 Dec 2011 11:34:53 +0000 kaputnik 49363@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>Bike lanes are so red. Cute</em></p> <p>The one under the M8 in Glasgow was <em>so</em> pink! and was surfaced in the sort of bouncy rubber tiles that you get in playparks. The streetlights had also been clad in purple and orange plastic to make them look like giant flowers! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4643#post-49347 Tue, 06 Dec 2011 11:05:13 +0000 chdot 49347@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"Bike lanes are so red."</p> <p>Especially that Marchmont Road one!!</p> <p>Must update <a href="http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=17">this</a>. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4643#post-49344 Tue, 06 Dec 2011 11:00:27 +0000 cb 49344@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"<br /> "It's a bit like that old site showing up the poor cycling provision in Edinburgh"<br /> "</p> <p>Bike lanes are <em>so</em> red. Cute. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4643#post-49342 Tue, 06 Dec 2011 10:56:47 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 49342@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Ah. Didn't click enough. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4643#post-49341 Tue, 06 Dec 2011 10:55:32 +0000 chdot 49341@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"It's a bit like that old site showing up the poor cycling provision in Edinburgh"</p> <p><a href="http://scruss.com/enterprise.net/edinburgh_lanes.html" rel="nofollow">http://scruss.com/enterprise.net/edinburgh_lanes.html</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4643#post-49338 Tue, 06 Dec 2011 10:51:47 +0000 Arellcat 49338@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>It's a bit like that old site showing up the poor cycling provision in Edinburgh...</em></p> <p>That one is also hosted on Stewart Russell's site:</p> <p><a href="http://scruss.com/enterprise.net/edinburgh_lanes.html" rel="nofollow">http://scruss.com/enterprise.net/edinburgh_lanes.html</a></p> <p>And even more off-topic, don't forget the Gugolmap of <a href="http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4466#post-47330">bad infrastructure in Edinburgh</a>. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4643#post-49333 Tue, 06 Dec 2011 10:47:24 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 49333@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Ah, so from that site it <em>did</em> have a railing...</p> <p><img src="http://scruss.com/enterprise.net/Images/MX-1200_20010909_093827h.jpg"></p> <p>Now did it come out (for Google) then go back in, or am I mis-remembering? I'd go for the latter to be honest, which means it's better than it was!</p> <p>It's a bit like that old site showing up the poor cycling provision in Edinburgh - most of the stuff on there is still the same! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4643#post-49330 Tue, 06 Dec 2011 10:36:31 +0000 chdot 49330@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I'm SO glad that site is still up (<a href="http://scruss.com/enterprise.net/crappylanes.html" rel="nofollow">http://scruss.com/enterprise.net/crappylanes.html</a>)</p> <p>Ten years 'out of date' - don't know if any 'problems' are still there, but useful cautionary tales.</p> <p>Glasgow council wasn't happy.</p> <p>Web site producer now lives in Canada. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4643#post-49329 Tue, 06 Dec 2011 10:32:50 +0000 kaputnik 49329@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I also notice that the photos in Cb's link are dated 2000 and 2001!</p> <p>And I also also notice in <a href="http://scruss.com/enterprise.net/crappylanes.html">that the "Stairway to Heaven (not):"</a> has not changed since then either!</p> <p><img src="http://scruss.com/enterprise.net/Images/MX-1200_20010909_124828h.jpg"><br /> <em><br /> •the wedges were on the right, so you didn't risk walking into your chain going up<br /> •the wedges changed to the right at the top of this section (they don't) so you have a reasonable turning radius, as opposed to twice the railing width<br /> •the wedges were on both sides, so two cyclists can pass.<br /> </em> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4643#post-49327 Tue, 06 Dec 2011 10:31:33 +0000 kaputnik 49327@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Needless to say we approached it the "obvious" way - by continuing straight on, down the ramp, into the "wrong way" cycle lane, waiting for a gap and then scooting across the road into the island lane. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4643#post-49322 Tue, 06 Dec 2011 10:21:34 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 49322@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"<em>Google street view shows no railing (just a bollard) to negotiate, but I guess that is out of date</em>"</p> <p>Altogether possible I'm mis-remembering a railing all the way across. Still stupid having the bollard thingy there! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4643#post-49319 Tue, 06 Dec 2011 10:16:40 +0000 cb 49319@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>That is a bizarre bike lane.</p> <p>Google street view shows no railing (just a bollard) to negotiate, but I guess that is out of date.</p> <p>It gets a mention here:</p> <p><a href="http://scruss.com/enterprise.net/crappylanes.html">http://scruss.com/enterprise.net/crappylanes.html</a></p> <p>Edit: and specifically here: <a href="http://scruss.com/enterprise.net/barriers_to_glasgow_cycling.html">http://scruss.com/enterprise.net/barriers_to_glasgow_cycling.html</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4643#post-49317 Tue, 06 Dec 2011 10:08:27 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 49317@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>That was a truly horrible bit of road. To access the lane you were supposed to cross at the pedestrian lights (no bike light symbol, nor signs indicating this was to happen) with the lane starting from behind some railings on the central reservation (this deserves Facility of the Month status) which put you on the 'outside' of two lanes of left turning traffic, with no bike lane in existence once you'd made that left turn. Utterly utterly barmy. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4643#post-49308 Tue, 06 Dec 2011 01:16:52 +0000 kaputnik 49308@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>cross the wide pavement and then bump down a kerb! </em></p> <p>After navigating one of the worst cobbled sections in Edinburgh, finding a car (legally) parked across the dropped kerb at back of Register House then find a bus (legally) waiting across where the dropped kerb "should" be but isn't...</p> <p>Slightly OT but I hope they don't try and emulate <a href="http://maps.google.co.uk/?ll=55.867173,-4.259297&amp;spn=0.001181,0.002411&amp;t=h&amp;z=19&amp;vpsrc=6&amp;layer=c&amp;cbll=55.867173,-4.259297&amp;panoid=WgqYplLr8CZPmR19yKFQ3w&amp;cbp=12,202.08,,0,19.82">THIS</a> that Anth and myself discovered in Glasgow. It's mildly intimidating to find yourself in a bikelane on the OUTSIDE of 2 lanes of traffic, with another 2 lanes whizzing by on your right with nothing but some green tarmac and white lines to "protect" you. Seeing as they want you to access this from the toucan crossing anyway I don't know why they didn't finish the job, put the lane up the inside where at least you only have one direction of traffic to contend with and delay your journey a little bit more by making you cross 2 sets of lights. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4643#post-49294 Mon, 05 Dec 2011 22:10:31 +0000 Arellcat 49294@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>From page 25 of the proposal document:</p> <p>"<em>Charlotte Square has become a space that limits pedestrian movement and choice, is intimidating for cyclists and gives priority to vehicles. The proposals outlined within this document create a pedestrian focussed space that allows all to move through and explore Charlotte Square, regardless of age or ability. The proposals also take cognisance of the existing National Cycle Network Route 1 and the council’s Family Cycle Network aspirations ... informal crossing [will be] made safer through the reduction in carriageway width and slower speed of vehicles, both through the layout of the carriageway and reduced 20mph speed limit."</em></p> <p>and there is an earlier diagram of NCN Route 1 east and west through Charlotte Sq. I'll let them go on the point about cyclists being somehow distinct from vehicles. It goes on to state:</p> <p><em>"Presently the City of Edinburgh Council (CEC) is proposing adding to the NCRs with the introduction of a Family Cycle Network (FCN) throughout the city, through which a number of routes will converge in Charlotte Square as a key point within the City Centre. The FCN is targeted at encouraging user groups such as families, lapsed cyclists and new cyclists, to access the City Centre by bike, which is an aim supported by the applicant and design team. After discussion with CEC it is clear these proposals are still being refined, and that further dialogue between CEC and the Charlotte Square client and design team is required. It has been acknowledged by CEC that the current proposal for the Square greatly enhances the opportunities for safer pedestrian and cycle integration ..."</em></p> <p>I was wondering whether CEC and the developers had considered the work that Gehl architects carried out. On page 28 one of the referenced documents is <em>Public Space Public Life Study: Gehl Architects for City of Edinburgh Council.</em> But here's my beef: if the intention is to make it much, much more pedestrian friendly, why stop at levelling out the pavements and building new areas of hard standing, and yet <em>still</em> give the movement priority to the circulating traffic, albeit slowed down? Why not make pedestrians the most important element and make the vehicles give way?</p> <p>While there is 'quite a lot' made of new cycle stands (fancy wiggly ones, rather than Sheffield or Edinburgh style) and of the necessary NCN1 access, there is nothing mentioned about improving the western access into Charlotte Sq for cyclists who have to cross the wide pavement and then bump down a kerb! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4643#post-49291 Mon, 05 Dec 2011 21:39:03 +0000 Min 49291@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Looks like cyclists will be taking the part of street furniture/slalom poles if they are going to be making it very narrow and full of parked cars. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4643#post-49286 Mon, 05 Dec 2011 20:54:26 +0000 DaveC 49286@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>who's willing to bet they'll place some 'street furniture' like Gifford Park/Clerk st... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4643#post-49274 Mon, 05 Dec 2011 18:32:05 +0000 Kim 49274@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>So that is a No, then... *sigh* </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4643#post-49269 Mon, 05 Dec 2011 17:59:36 +0000 druidh 49269@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><blockquote>but will they take bicycles into account?</blockquote></p> <p>Doesn't look like it in this<br /> <a href="https://citydev-portal.edinburgh.gov.uk/portal/getEdmDoc?docid=512265443" rel="nofollow">https://citydev-portal.edinburgh.gov.uk/portal/getEdmDoc?docid=512265443</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4643#post-49265 Mon, 05 Dec 2011 17:26:12 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 49265@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Written about the Charlotte Square race track <a href="http://www.blipfoto.com/entry/334671">two and a half years ago</a>. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4643#post-49264 Mon, 05 Dec 2011 17:15:00 +0000 Kim 49264@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Rumour has it that the <a href="https://citydev-portal.edinburgh.gov.uk/publicaccess/tdc/dcapplication/application_detailview.aspx?KEYVAL=LV0IUDEW01U00&amp;module=P3&amp;hidereturn=true">Charlotte Square race track is due for reform</a>, but will they take bicycles into account? </p>