http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: Cyclist dies after crash in Edinburgh en Wed, 13 May 2026 02:56:07 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4908&page=3#post-146160 Fri, 21 Mar 2014 21:10:52 +0000 le_soigneur 146160@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Cheers. I just followed threefromleith's <a href="http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=12240&amp;page=2#post-142988">pioneering work in the Galbraith case</a>.<br /> This case shows the PFS is between a rock and a hard point. In this case they bravely chose to go for Death-by-Dangerous, close but no cigar. If they had gone for Careless Driving, they would likely have got a conviction but with very limited punsihment under the sentencing guidelines.<br /> It worries me if the defendant has his HGV licence renewed in the next few years and is still on the road.</p> <p> The civil case looks to be the best chance for some justice for the family. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4908&page=3#post-146116 Fri, 21 Mar 2014 14:42:59 +0000 sg37409 146116@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Nice one soigneur. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4908&page=3#post-146097 Fri, 21 Mar 2014 12:41:56 +0000 le_soigneur 146097@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>This got the editor to take down the comments:<br /> <code>@gedwardsistaken said @edinburghpaper didn't allow #insensitive #predjudicial #contempt comments on death verdicts <a href="http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/man-cleared-over-death-of-cyclist-andrew-mcnicoll-1-3348358" rel="nofollow">http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/man-cleared-over-death-of-cyclist-andrew-mcnicoll-1-3348358</a> …</code></p> <p>Very suspect that the only time they accidentally upload to allow comments on a verdict, it is a cycling case &lt;gulp&gt; </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4908&page=3#post-146075 Fri, 21 Mar 2014 11:01:49 +0000 acsimpson 146075@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Andrew's family are understandably disappointed.</p> <p><a href="http://www.andrewcyclist.com/blog/">http://www.andrewcyclist.com/blog/</a></p> <p>If they do decide to start civil proceedings then I wish them all the best. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4908&page=3#post-146074 Fri, 21 Mar 2014 10:41:55 +0000 sg37409 146074@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Notice the EEN is allowing comments on this article. Its not exactly a "report of a detah of a cyclist" which they said they dont allow* comments on, but close enough to let EEN get their click earnings up. To hell if any are offensive to the mcnicolls. </p> <p>* sometimes they make a mistake... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4908&page=3#post-146036 Thu, 20 Mar 2014 21:04:40 +0000 crowriver 146036@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"However, a jury returned a majority verdict of not proven against the HGV driver."</p> <p>This is NOT an acquittal under Scots law. It essentially means "we think you're guilty, but we can't prove it". </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4908&page=3#post-146035 Thu, 20 Mar 2014 21:04:36 +0000 stiltskin 146035@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>What a farce the jury system is... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4908&page=3#post-146024 Thu, 20 Mar 2014 19:35:32 +0000 DaveC 146024@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-26667983" rel="nofollow">http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-26667983</a></p> <p>"A lorry driver has been acquitted of causing a cyclist's death by careless driving."</p> <p>My thoughts are for Andrew's family. I hope this can help in closure. Regards, Dave C </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4908&page=3#post-145754 Mon, 17 Mar 2014 20:00:33 +0000 recombodna 145754@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>And the M9 under the Newbridge roundabout is a 50mph zone. I was driving into a headwind with a fully loaded luton listening to a wtf podcast with Harry dean Stanton. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4908&page=3#post-145752 Mon, 17 Mar 2014 18:37:27 +0000 DaveC 145752@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I can confirm that Murray drives well qithin the limit, sensibly and courteously, having been taken for a ride in his Luton van. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4908&page=3#post-145751 Mon, 17 Mar 2014 18:11:57 +0000 I were right about that saddle 145751@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>HGVs are limited to 50 or 56mph on a motorway depending on whether or not they have a limiter fitted. How slow were you going in your van? Under 56mph?</p> <p>If not, why not look up the operator's licence here;</p> <p><a href="http://www.tan.gov.uk/tanen/vosa_anonymousoperatorsearch_new.asp" rel="nofollow">http://www.tan.gov.uk/tanen/vosa_anonymousoperatorsearch_new.asp</a></p> <p>and start pestering their Transport Manager? Any firm that carries other people's goods in an HGV has to have a named Transport Manager, responsible for the safe and proper use of the firm's vehicles. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4908&page=3#post-145750 Mon, 17 Mar 2014 18:01:10 +0000 recombodna 145750@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I was almost run off the road by a lorry today howdens artic. The guy overtook me and then pulled in on me before he was past I had to slam on the anchors. Road was the M9 I was driving the van!! Then I watched 2 artics blast through a light which had been red for about 2 seconds at the Hermiston gait roundabout. Dhl trucks. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4908&page=3#post-145726 Mon, 17 Mar 2014 15:08:56 +0000 chdot 145726@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><strong>Andrew McNicoll </strong></p> <p>Lorry driver in Sheriff Court today. </p> <p>Case expected to finish on Friday.</p> <p>(<a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-21615382">Arrested a year ago</a>.) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4908&page=3#post-102328 Thu, 28 Feb 2013 14:52:24 +0000 Instography 102328@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Surely, they would still need legal representation at hearings, including sentencing. If that's effectively lost as a result of pleading guilty I can understand why someone would hold out. Anyway, you'd need to be a bit of a mug to plead guilty and be punished a moment earlier than you had to, even if that outcome's inevitable and especially if there's no incentive. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4908&page=3#post-102327 Thu, 28 Feb 2013 14:47:09 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 102327@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>You still need representation to make sure the police aren't going about things in a way they shouldn't and to represent you in sentencing/offer pleas in mitigation and so on. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4908&page=3#post-102326 Thu, 28 Feb 2013 14:44:54 +0000 DaveC 102326@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>So if they pled guilty first off, when say they were first arrested, would there be any need for legal aid? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4908&page=3#post-102313 Thu, 28 Feb 2013 13:54:27 +0000 Lezzles 102313@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>A lot of them don't plead guilty until the date of their trial so they can still get their Legal Aid. If they admit guilt earlier they don't get access to this. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4908&page=3#post-102304 Thu, 28 Feb 2013 12:53:39 +0000 steveo 102304@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Aye a sliding scale for sentence reduction based on how quickly you cough to it. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4908&page=3#post-102303 Thu, 28 Feb 2013 12:50:44 +0000 DaveC 102303@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I hope this helps in any closure for Andrew McNicoll's parents.</p> <p>Dave C</p> <p>(privately I beleive that any offender who wastes police and court's time by admitting guilt at the last minute should have no reduction in sentence, for wasting the authorities time). </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4908&page=3#post-102300 Thu, 28 Feb 2013 12:42:50 +0000 amir 102300@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Getting appropriate verdicts in careless/dangerous driving cases is clearly important for making the roads safer and appear safer. Hopefully the politicians are beginning to understand that. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4908&page=3#post-102299 Thu, 28 Feb 2013 12:31:22 +0000 kaputnik 102299@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I was recently involved (as witness) in a dangerous/careless driving case.</p> <p>It eventually went down to careless driving and driving without Insurance blah-de-blah. Took 19 months and 3 cancelled/deffered court dates to get from incident to court at which point defendant pled guilty at last possible moment (and probably further reduced any slap-on the wrist).</p> <p>All the time he had been driving around of course, despite the 9 points-worth of previous offences, not having insurance and having nearly wiped out 20 cyclists then T-boned a van on a roundabout. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4908&page=3#post-102295 Thu, 28 Feb 2013 12:06:40 +0000 steveo 102295@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I doubt any one ever described justice as swift... Lets just hope the PF don't "deal down" to careless driving. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4908&page=2#post-102294 Thu, 28 Feb 2013 12:05:07 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 102294@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Yeah, one of those ones that I want to say 'good news' to, but in the circumstances feels completely wrong. The legnth of time I'm wondering if some 'new' evidence or a new witness has come out of the woodwork - but they must now be fairly certain (also fairly certain the charge will get negotiated down for a guilty plea, unless the new evidence is so conclusive, or the driver is 100% adamant of his innocence - which he is at the moment until proven otherwise). </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4908&page=2#post-102293 Thu, 28 Feb 2013 12:02:58 +0000 chdot 102293@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Well no speculation and all that. </p> <p>Taken some time, but presume all evidence now in place. </p> <p>Sad, but 'progress' I hope. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4908&page=2#post-102291 Thu, 28 Feb 2013 11:55:44 +0000 kaputnik 102291@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-21615382">Man arrested over death of crash cyclist Andrew McNicoll on Lanark Road</a></p> <p><em>A 53-year-old man has been arrested and charged with a driving offence following the death of a cyclist in Edinburgh.</p> <p>...</p> <p>A Lothian and Borders Police spokesman said they had charged the man with death by dangerous driving.</em> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4908&page=2#post-52255 Sun, 08 Jan 2012 22:38:02 +0000 chdot 52255@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"</p> <p>lynne mcnicoll<br /> (@itsgood2give)<br /> Posted at 9:21 PM January 8, 2012 on Twitter<br /> "<br /> If you'd like to leave a message of support for our safer cycling campaign add it here: <a href="http://t.co/KKPEhrgc" rel="nofollow">http://t.co/KKPEhrgc</a><br /> " </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4908&page=2#post-52239 Sun, 08 Jan 2012 19:09:53 +0000 PS 52239@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Here's the memorial fund website:<br /> <a href="http://www.andrewcyclist.com/">http://www.andrewcyclist.com</a></p> <p><em>"We ask for your help to fundraise, and to join our campaign.<br /> If you’d like to help us in any way please do get in touch."</em> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4908&page=2#post-52143 Sat, 07 Jan 2012 13:46:38 +0000 chdot 52143@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"Despite the family’s devastation, they have vowed to bring something positive to the tragedy by setting up a memorial for Andrew to raise cash to help make cycling in Edinburgh safer."</p> <p><a href="http://scotsman.com/edinburgh-evening-news/fundraiser_s_stepson_is_cycle_crash_victim_1_2042770" rel="nofollow">http://scotsman.com/edinburgh-evening-news/fundraiser_s_stepson_is_cycle_crash_victim_1_2042770</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4908&page=2#post-52141 Sat, 07 Jan 2012 13:15:34 +0000 gembo 52141@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>This sad incident happened on my daily route. I will not speculate as we have done enough of that(without using names). I noticed the mans friend expressed his condolences on the ERC website and the scotsman journalist lifted his heartfelt words and put them in the article. I imagine journalists can do this routinely with any info on internet without seeking permissions. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=4908&page=2#post-52120 Sat, 07 Jan 2012 08:36:37 +0000 Dave 52120@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>EEN now suggests he rode into the car then was hit by the lorry - which is obviously quite different to previous reports that he was hit by the lorry and went into the car. I'm guessing that's more the bias of the writer (or even an unintentional slip) than an investigation outcome though ;-)</p> <p>However, it's easy to imagine being in position to pass a parked car when a lorry pulls longside and if it then moves in (oncoming traffic, island, whatever) - where do you go?</p> <p>There are certainly things to think about, especially when the casualty is a long-term and expert rider. </p> <p>Generally I always argue that being assertive is better than hoping drivers will behave safely unprompted, but at the same time, there are probably occasions where I've committed to something like passing a parked car, but if a long vehicle half overtook then moved in, what's my backup plan? Hmm. </p>