http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: Inconsiderate cycling v police focus en Sun, 31 May 2026 19:29:28 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5199&page=2#post-57199 Fri, 17 Feb 2012 15:29:41 +0000 custard 57199@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@ ARobComp<br /> exactly what were you being detained for?<br /> I wouldnt have been going anywhere unless arrested or with good reason<br /> if i got caught in the car doing a similar level of motoring offence<br /> I wouldnt be taken to the station </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5199&page=2#post-57197 Fri, 17 Feb 2012 15:23:56 +0000 Stepdoh 57197@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>My dad used to work there and coulport. Helping the war effort in some mysterious electricianly manner.</p> <p>Very, very clear memory of going on the sub simulator when I was a kid. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5199&page=2#post-57193 Fri, 17 Feb 2012 15:09:30 +0000 Darkerside 57193@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Sorry, the south gate of Faslane naval base (just up from helensburgh), rather than a specific place! </p> <p>They do have a police cycle unit which occasionally trundles round, so it might all be positive and just misreported by the base newspaper. </p> <p>Agree that sounds pretty rubbish! I'd probably have been significantly more stubborn and ended up in hot water. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5199&page=2#post-57182 Fri, 17 Feb 2012 14:22:38 +0000 Stepdoh 57182@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>No! Really, that's horrendous. You should have called the evening news and had a picture of you looking sad beside your bike taken. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5199&page=2#post-57180 Fri, 17 Feb 2012 14:11:38 +0000 ARobComp 57180@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I once got pulled for going down the middle of two rows of stationary traffic on queen street. they made me lock the bike and took me to st leonards. Then when I refused to admit to any wrong doing I think they must have spoken to someone and realised I had done nothing. they wouldn't even give me a lift back to my bike. Where is South Gate? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5199&page=2#post-57167 Fri, 17 Feb 2012 12:45:06 +0000 Darkerside 57167@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>No, there's a good group of us across the entire base, with about 6 that use my building daily. </p> <p>I suspect someone's got fed up of sitting for 15 minutes in the queue to get to the guards at the gate watching cyclists merrily trundle past them every morning. The notice specifically mentioned 'weaving in and out of traffic' which is odd, as the road is effectively one way at that time.</p> <p>I'll approach with an open mind and see what happens. You never know, might get a free light... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5199&page=2#post-57165 Fri, 17 Feb 2012 12:34:34 +0000 chdot 57165@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"how overtaking the enormous queue of cars to the south gate every morning is 'dangerous for all road users'."</p> <p>So you're not the only cyclist(?)</p> <p>Maybe talk to Cycling Scotland about becoming 'cycle friendly employer'. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5199&page=2#post-57162 Fri, 17 Feb 2012 12:30:19 +0000 Darkerside 57162@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Entertainingly, the base Mod Plod are apparently starting a 'cyclist safety awareness campaign' next week, offering 'advice' (to cyclists, clearly) on lights, hiviz, helmets and how overtaking the enormous queue of cars to the south gate every morning is 'dangerous for all road users'.</p> <p>As this coincides nicely with me getting the recumbent back on the road, I'm expecting no end of informed, logical debate. Joys. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5199&page=2#post-55529 Fri, 03 Feb 2012 11:09:31 +0000 Dave 55529@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Yes, quite. For instance I reported a blatant episode of dangerous driving, with video. Never followed up (although I did it in person and gave a statement). I was knocked off a few years ago, two independent witnesses, no action taken.</p> <p>It's odd that it costs 400% of face value to process a fine. Surely they're similar to parking tickets, which raise so much money the council can afford an army of wardens and masses of parking-related street infrastructure? Weird.</p> <p>That the police presence is just a sop to moral panic is clear enough when you observe people riding past a police stakeout and see that they don't ride any differently (compare with my fellow motorists driving past a police car!). If I'm going to pay for policing I'd rather they were doing something useful, up to and including welcoming the sight of police presence when I'm driving. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5199&page=2#post-55525 Fri, 03 Feb 2012 11:03:29 +0000 Min 55525@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Apart from road rage attacks on cyclists. They don't tackle them at all. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5199#post-55522 Fri, 03 Feb 2012 11:00:01 +0000 mgj 55522@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Police are not under pressure to issue tickets at all; I dont know where this rubbish comes from, but its not true. The average £40 fine costs £120 to process through the justice system; they are used where they are effective at deterring future offending. Police targets are about reducing crime and making people feel safer. The extra 1,000 police have coincided with a 30 year low in crime and an increase in detection rates. The stats when you see them are quite stunning. But community safety is the other part and takes in work like this; people do feel that they want incosiderate cycling tackled, including many cyclists. Yes there are other things for the police to do, but there arent any issues that they dont tackle at all. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5199#post-55508 Fri, 03 Feb 2012 09:58:10 +0000 wingpig 55508@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I count not being subject to any aggressive revving, close-overtaking or ah-what-the-heck-I'll-pull-out-in-front-of-him-anyway exceptional. The car which tried to three-point-turn me into the kerb this morning is normal background. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5199#post-55503 Fri, 03 Feb 2012 09:43:30 +0000 Dave 55503@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I think it's natural that discussion tends to be around cycling issues (cost, convenience, danger / road maintenance, enforcement, whatever) rather than mutual congratulation over the bits that aren't an issue.</p> <p>For instance, every day I get up, roll my bike out of the front door, scythe through town in a fraction of the time it would otherwise take, arrive with nothing more exciting to comment on than how many traffic jammed drivers I passed on the way in, and get stuck in to the job feeling g-r-e-a-t. But there's nothing to discuss there, really - it's just "base state".</p> <p>When the exceptions come up (trees fallen, iced over, dangerous driving, daft police intervention, blah blah) that's when the discussion happens, no? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5199#post-55471 Thu, 02 Feb 2012 22:59:39 +0000 gembo 55471@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Says "victim" tho I am with Mr Chekov and pronouncing it Wictim. The forum has for some time contained a fair amount of complaint about the lot of cyclists. I imagine in the springit will all get rosy again with audax, trips out in the nice weather and the long days. Looking forward to it. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5199#post-55468 Thu, 02 Feb 2012 22:51:01 +0000 minus six 55468@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>tendency to drift off focus with respect to the issue raised. Usually to bemoan our "victim" status with respect to car drivers, transport planners etc.</em></p> <p>Hmm. I resemble that remark.</p> <p>But <em>victim</em>...?</p> <p>I'm mixing it on the dual carriageway daily.</p> <p>Balls of steel, son. </p> <p>No victim. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5199#post-55467 Thu, 02 Feb 2012 22:49:50 +0000 gembo 55467@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Police under pressure to make arrests and have a visible presence. This initiative helps them do both at same time. Trickier to track down drivers leaving the scene of their crime. Hope Nelly's friend is Ok. </p> <p>Not sure why cyclists have to be blemish free to get fair treatment. We are often smug. We can't hep it. Cycling is fun, good exercise and you'd don't get held up in traffic. This appears to make us unacceptable in the eyes of some people.</p> <p>PC Quentin was claiming that various campaigns joined up. So more sensible cycling going hand in hand with targeting speeding drivers. We jut don't clock these campaigns as they don't affect us? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5199#post-55464 Thu, 02 Feb 2012 22:35:22 +0000 Nelly 55464@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I presumed reason for MMW focus was simply because most bike cops in LBP are in st leonards nick?</p> <p>I admit to being a bit peeved about this though - yet another friend was knocked off his bike this week outside Makro, car driver drove off. That is the type of outrageous behaviour which needs sorted - not daft students who are more of a danger to themselves than anyone else.</p> <p>P.s. gembo, sorry for ignoring your points ;-) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5199#post-55456 Thu, 02 Feb 2012 22:02:34 +0000 gembo 55456@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>559 I am very bad at veering off topic so not best to comment. However, that has not stopped me before. Your original post that the police re out in force on the meadows compared with elsewhere, dependent on time of day you skoot through would appear to be a universally given. You nailed it first go so all other posters drifted off topic. polis there as they will catch more speeding bikes as the number of cyclists in the short stretch is the highest in Edinburgh. Again the peter's yardinistas will assume this as a given and not reply except to veer.</p> <p>One possible explanation is that the forum whilst populated by controversialists/idiots like me is also full of experts. As you doubtless know, expert discourse assumes far more knowledge than non-expert discourses. At least you got plenty of replies. My fascinating observations are frequently ignored. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5199#post-55442 Thu, 02 Feb 2012 18:25:32 +0000 recombodna 55442@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I see quite a lot of police at the crew toll part of the path but I've never seen any at bingham. Come to think of it I've hardly seen any in the meadows...... maybe I'm there at the wrong times. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5199#post-55439 Thu, 02 Feb 2012 17:45:15 +0000 559 55439@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@Dave, being also a cynic, suspect traffic on MMW is more constant over the day, where as on the other paths peak before 8am and after 5pm (ie outwith Police day, perhaps?) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5199#post-55436 Thu, 02 Feb 2012 17:39:16 +0000 Dave 55436@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"The issue I was keen to highlight was that Police coverage is poor and focussed on the Meadows area, too the detriment of other busy routes."</p> <p>I suppose it's because the Meadows is so much busier than other routes?</p> <p>I see many cyclists on the Roseburn / Leith paths but not a lot compared with standing at the big junction on MMW. If I had a quota of tickets to issue, that's where I'd deploy them too.</p> <p>It probably also has to do with which section of the police covers which area, because they have separate geographical responsibilities.</p> <p>I'm enough of a cynic that I don't think a police presence makes a significant difference wherever it's deployed, not for stuff like this (including both driving and cycling here) - better viewed in terms of public relations / spin rather than enforcement of genuine problems. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5199#post-55431 Thu, 02 Feb 2012 17:24:14 +0000 wingpig 55431@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><blockquote><em>"...there's a tendency to drift off focus with respect to the issue raised."</em></blockquote></p> <p>There's also a tendency for the focus to drift.<br /> At least everything that gets said is written down, so there's none of that "how did we get onto this topic?" that those verbal conversation things are sometimes subject to. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5199#post-55430 Thu, 02 Feb 2012 17:22:08 +0000 559 55430@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>#Roibeard, yup drift is too slow a word.<br /> Agree your description is more accurate ;-) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5199#post-55429 Thu, 02 Feb 2012 17:19:35 +0000 Roibeard 55429@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@559 I don't think CCE has thread drift (sounds slow and glacial), it's more like we have thread ceilidhing, think "Strip the Willow" specifically!</p> <p>Robert </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5199#post-55423 Thu, 02 Feb 2012 17:13:03 +0000 559 55423@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Just an observation on most posts on this forum, there a tendency to drift off focus with respect to the issue raised. Usually to bemoan our "victim" status with respect to car drivers, transport planners etc.</p> <p>The issue I was keen to highlight was that Police coverage is poor and focussed on the Meadows area, too the detriment of other busy routes. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5199#post-55421 Thu, 02 Feb 2012 17:03:25 +0000 559 55421@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Re point of original article, thats a call by the Evening News. </p> <p>My point was and is that Police coverage appears geographically skewed, which tallies with my experience of the Roseburn path, only seen the Police 3 times in 4 years. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5199#post-55413 Thu, 02 Feb 2012 16:35:01 +0000 Dave 55413@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>"At what point does perception of someone doing something wrong stop being based on actually seeing something and start being about pre-determined prejudice? (the latter being - in my mind at least - what outgrouping of cyclists means)."</em></p> <p>To me the clue is that the amount of "someone doing something wrong" is wildly out of proportion with the enforcement effort. A fraction of a tenth of a percent committing infractions is really extremely low, when over 50% of vehicles passing local primary schools may be speeding. </p> <p>Nevertheless, enforcement is disproportionately targeted on cyclists. I believe this is because of prejudice, rather than an expectation that "this time there really will be so many offenders that it will be a worthwhile effort".</p> <p>Whether the fault lies with the police, in the sense that they should resist calls to discriminate against a minority by wider society, or we consider them to be hostage to circumstance and the blame lies with society as a whole is also an interesting question. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5199#post-55409 Thu, 02 Feb 2012 16:06:40 +0000 recombodna 55409@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@559 what is the point of the article? I think Dave said it all for me..... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5199#post-55408 Thu, 02 Feb 2012 15:55:52 +0000 mgj 55408@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Cyclists behaving badly enough to come to a police officers attention are an outgroup from me as a cyclist. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5199#post-55406 Thu, 02 Feb 2012 15:54:59 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 55406@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Though the MMW presence is picking up 'inconsiderate' cycling. In the urban environment in a car parking and driving in cycle lanes, stopping in ASLs, driving too close to cyclists, speaking on the mobile etc. would all be more equivalent.</p> <p>Certainly there is a regular and obvious presence on motorways, but then more people are killed by motorised traffic in the cities, and here the presence seems.... lacking.... </p>