http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: Pointless Hi-Viz en Sun, 31 May 2026 19:30:11 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5247#post-56277 Fri, 10 Feb 2012 11:55:11 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 56277@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"<em>when fitted with a reflective band, stickers or similar, yes!</em>"</p> <p>Hence my immediately following 'd'oh' post as I realised what was meant... :P </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5247#post-56259 Fri, 10 Feb 2012 11:14:17 +0000 kaputnik 56259@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>Does the helmet aid visibility? ;)</em></p> <p>when fitted with a reflective band, stickers or similar, yes! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5247#post-56188 Thu, 09 Feb 2012 19:36:59 +0000 Uberuce 56188@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I bought another hi-viz vest, stripped off the Scotchlite and use the trimmings to pimp my rucksack.</p> <p>Oddly enough the other night I was doing my recycling run with a big camo bag on, and left the tabard off precisely because it's such a fail to obscure it. That just meant I was less flashy from the front and side. Ho hum. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5247#post-56185 Thu, 09 Feb 2012 19:12:31 +0000 Instography 56185@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>If it's generally true that more visibility is better than less then it's hard for me to see how one type can be described as useless. One form (say a hi viz jacket) never reduces the impact of another (say, lights) and each can generally only enhance or complement the effect of another (lights and hi viz or a steady light and a flashing light). The smartest strategy would surely be a broad spectrum of visibilities, including placing yourself on the road where any of them can have maximum impact.</p> <p>Of course, none of it matters if the people who need to see aren't paying proper attention. But I don't think that's an argument to favour one form of visibility over another. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5247#post-56181 Thu, 09 Feb 2012 18:05:42 +0000 Roibeard 56181@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@Dave - I'm happy with the pedestrian comparison, but only up to a point, or rather up to a speed.</p> <p>Ninja pedestrians don't move that quickly, so they have more time to be picked up in the course of <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saccade">saccades.</a></p> <p>Ninja cyclists move much more quickly and therefore are less likely to be in the precise location the eye spans at the precise moment it is being scanned.</p> <p>Of course, movement does catch the eye (and biomechanical movement particularly screams "person"), so a stationary pedestrian might be even harder to spot than a ninja cyclist - presumably there's a cut over point where the motion ceases to catch the eye and instead makes one harder to spot!</p> <p>Robert </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5247#post-56178 Thu, 09 Feb 2012 17:40:42 +0000 Dave 56178@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>To be honest, I think what you're wearing (up to and including the use of lights) makes very little difference in almost all cases in practice. For instance, drivers can easily see pedestrians who have none of this stuff on, as you can test by going to your local zebra crossing of an evening and conspicuously look the other way to the approaching vehicles as you make to cross.</p> <p>I never got around to posting about it but a week or two back in the car, I came very close to taking out a cyclist when I pulled out in front of him at a t-junction. Luckily he was going uphill, so he wouldn't have had to brake or anything - but it was just that, luck. I didn't see him until I was more than halfway across the lane. Downhill at a good clip I think he'd have had to brake pretty hard. </p> <p>He had lights and hi-viz/reflectives all over him, and I am obviously obscenely attentive to other cyclists - just didn't see him. This is one reason I ride out from the gutter especially downhill, so as to be where people's brains are expecting a hazard to be. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5247#post-56166 Thu, 09 Feb 2012 15:59:42 +0000 Smudge 56166@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>hi-viz colours make very little difference in any in my experience, it’s just more roadside clutter to most drivers unless it looks like a Police design(!) Retro reflectives are good as they are eye catching and the unusual shapes attract the eye (and shine out against a dark background). Thoughtful road positioning and eye contact are worth any amount of bright yellow imho :-/</p> <p>Making yourself visible generally only works if the other road user is looking in the first place, at night super-bright lights can be used to “trick” them into noticing you, but in the daytime defensive riding is infinitely more effective.</p> <p>All of course from a sample of one and not scientifically tested! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5247#post-56155 Thu, 09 Feb 2012 14:32:47 +0000 DaveC 56155@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Anth said "Does the helmet aid visibility? ;)",</p> <p>Well my Helmet has a white reflective strip on the dark polystyrine bit on the back. I also chose a white helmet as I figured it would be eaier to spot than a darker red/blue model the shop had at the time.</p> <p>One other reason for my new helmet was the old one (which took a wee knock before christmas), was slightly too large for me and when I mounted a light is floped left or right. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5247#post-56146 Thu, 09 Feb 2012 14:15:41 +0000 Dave 56146@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Yes, I think you've found it. So notwithstanding that the section on colours says "not red", the sub-sub-sub section says "white or yellow" - typical government :)</p> <p>That does mean that the green supermarket bike lights are actually illegal though, as opposed to just 'ought to be used with a normal light' (practically, there is no difference).</p> <p>So, for the experimental rig to be legal, a BS-compliant white front light on the bike (dimmest legally possible?) with the test lamp on the helmet? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5247#post-56136 Thu, 09 Feb 2012 13:48:31 +0000 slowcoach 56136@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Are the Lighting Regulations designed to be difficult to read? I think Reg. 18 says that schedule 2 applies (unless there is an exemption elsewhere) and it seems to say that the colour of a front lamp shall be "White or, if incorporated in a headlamp which is capable of emitting only a yellow light, yellow".<br /> There is/was also Reg.13 (concerning blinkies?) "Save as provided in paragraph (2), no vehicle shall be fitted with a lamp which automatically emits a flashing light." </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5247#post-56128 Thu, 09 Feb 2012 13:22:10 +0000 wingpig 56128@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I saw a blue light peeking out from the back of a taxi in Portobello yesterday evening but it turned out to be a dog with an illuminated collar on the kerb next to it.</p> <p>Whilst it's extremely driver- and road-dependent I noticed that when I was behind Instography and his pulsing death-ray Light&amp;Motion 180 rear light a car stayed patiently behind us all the way from Pollock roundabout to Old Church Lane, where it turned off. When I was in front of him on Milton Road cars were passing aggressively with inches to spare. I vaguely wondered if powerful light + outline of squishy human was more effective at getting motorists to leave space than a powerful light by itself? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5247#post-56124 Thu, 09 Feb 2012 13:06:24 +0000 steveo 56124@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Yellow lights are OK, early led blinkies were yellow as the technology to make cheap white leds was still a few years off. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5247#post-56122 Thu, 09 Feb 2012 12:56:09 +0000 Dave 56122@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Hmm, I've had a wee look and I can't find anything to suggest that a solid blue light is illegal either, although that is starting to cheat in my mind (for the purposes of the experiment) because people will just stop because of the emergency services connotation.</p> <p>Maybe I'm looking at the wrong law (RVLR)? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5247#post-56119 Thu, 09 Feb 2012 12:49:32 +0000 Dave 56119@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>[edited for confusion]. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5247#post-56118 Thu, 09 Feb 2012 12:48:04 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 56118@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>[EDIT] Aha, I see what you mean, <em>lights</em> on the helmet. D'oh. my bad. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5247#post-56117 Thu, 09 Feb 2012 12:47:29 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 56117@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Does the helmet aid visibility? ;) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5247#post-56115 Thu, 09 Feb 2012 12:45:59 +0000 spitters 56115@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I use panniers instead of a backpack for that very reason<br /> although I have front and rear lights on bike and h****t </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5247#post-56114 Thu, 09 Feb 2012 12:42:16 +0000 Dave 56114@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>A primitive reading of the RVLR suggests that you must not show a red light to the front, nor any colour other than red to the rear (with a vast wedge of exceptions).</p> <p>It doesn't say anything else about colour of lights to the front, so as far as I can tell, selective yellow or green, for instance, would be 110% legit.</p> <p>My hypothesis would be that not looking like a cyclist (or a regular cyclist, at least) would result in greatly increased safety.</p> <p>Coloured cellophane over the front light, maybe? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5247#post-56111 Thu, 09 Feb 2012 12:24:25 +0000 Darkerside 56111@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Would certainly be illegal. Whilst I can't imagine police pulling you for a green headlight, blue or red would probably be a different matter... </p> <p>I live in hope that my afternoon spend reading the road traffic act's lighting and reflectives section will actually come in use at some point. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5247#post-56109 Thu, 09 Feb 2012 12:13:58 +0000 crowriver 56109@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>It would be interesting to do a field test</em></p> <p>'Interesting' as in potentially dangerous? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5247#post-56106 Thu, 09 Feb 2012 11:56:04 +0000 Dave 56106@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>It would be interesting to do a field test - for instance every day coming back over Picardy Place (from Broughton to Leith St) I am interested by how close traffic coming up Leith Walk is willing to chance pulling out on me.</p> <p>I have a pretty bright light already. If it was orange, or red, or blue, would that improve the safety of the situation (people don't pull out as readily) or otherwise? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5247#post-56099 Thu, 09 Feb 2012 11:26:55 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 56099@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I'd be pretty cautious too, but then we're clearly both good drivers... ;) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5247#post-56098 Thu, 09 Feb 2012 11:22:09 +0000 Dave 56098@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>There are a lot of weird green or yellow front lights going around. I often think the main problem with them is just that they are so dim. After all, as a driver I'd be pretty cautious around an anomalous light heading my way... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5247#post-56095 Thu, 09 Feb 2012 11:17:16 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 56095@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@recombodna - I may have seen your very chap riding through the Meadows last night with that - red lights both front and rear! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5247#post-56092 Thu, 09 Feb 2012 11:13:35 +0000 DaveC 56092@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I rode down Broughton St last night in ~dusk? around 5pm. A cyclist in front had no lights. I turned off onto Bellevue Cres whilst he continued on Bellevue. I think its that silly time of year again where people think that as they set off in light its ok to continue on home whilst it gets dark, though that particular chap could have lived on Bellevue terr or E Clarence Street for all I know. I must admit though there are sometimes people cycling along with silly green LED lights in front. I can't see them never mind drivers. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5247#post-56088 Thu, 09 Feb 2012 11:00:43 +0000 recombodna 56088@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I saw a guy the other night with a red light on the front of his bike...... not wise!! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5247#post-56086 Thu, 09 Feb 2012 10:57:34 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 56086@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>*sigh* Walking to the pub last night I see, at the last minute, a cyclist. Well, he <em>did</em> have a hi-viz vest on, clearly a deliberate choice placed over his 'normal' clothes - it was the one concession to 'specialist' equipment.</p> <p>Except... That backpack on your back pretty much covers the whole thing. And you had lights neither front nor rear.</p> <p>But as long as you're safe and visible in your (obscured) hi-viz vest.... </p>