http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: Beeped and Swerved at this morning en Wed, 13 May 2026 03:27:56 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5296&page=2#post-56962 Thu, 16 Feb 2012 12:19:36 +0000 Min 56962@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Incidentally, it is worth reading through a few driver reports of bad/dangerous driving. You quickly find that drivers will report absolutely everything. Things that we would probably never consider reporting! Interesting. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5296&page=2#post-56959 Thu, 16 Feb 2012 12:14:00 +0000 chdot 56959@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"Yes I think a database would be useful as I always wonder when I read of similar road rage incidents that I have had, if it was the same person."</p> <p>We are not alone...</p> <p>"<a href="http://www.thamesvalley.police.uk/rdsafe/rdsafe-roadincidents/rdsafe-roadincidents-baddriving.htm">Bad driving puts lives at risk. Thames Valley Police deals with bad driving through either enforcement, or driver education schemes.</a>"</p> <p><a href="http://www.myroadrage.com/report-bad-driver" rel="nofollow">http://www.myroadrage.com/report-bad-driver</a></p> <p><a href="http://ratethatdriver.co.uk" rel="nofollow">http://ratethatdriver.co.uk</a></p> <p><a href="http://www.stop-smidsy.org.uk" rel="nofollow">http://www.stop-smidsy.org.uk</a></p> <p><a href="http://www.roadsafetygb.org.uk/news/1536.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.roadsafetygb.org.uk/news/1536.html</a></p> <p><a href="http://www.londoncyclist.co.uk/secure/how-to-report-bad-drivers" rel="nofollow">http://www.londoncyclist.co.uk/secure/how-to-report-bad-drivers</a></p> <p><a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12334486" rel="nofollow">http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12334486</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5296&page=2#post-56958 Thu, 16 Feb 2012 12:10:56 +0000 wingpig 56958@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>From other posts and stuff elsewhere the problem with taking anything to the police is the "Were there any witnesses?" thing, without which nowt seemingly ever happens. I've tried Crimestoppers a couple of times for non-road-idiocy matters but the extreme disinterest of the person on the other end of the phone made me somewhat dispirited. The few times when I've seen something I considered 999-worthy (or, if it was nearby, calling St Leonard's) there was a similar "unless someone was actually wielding a knife, we can't do anything" sort of attitude coming across.</p> <p>Raging Bike with accompanying map sounds perfect, Darkerside. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5296&page=2#post-56956 Thu, 16 Feb 2012 12:09:16 +0000 chdot 56956@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Related thread - <a href="http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5322">Engaging with the enemy</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5296&page=2#post-56951 Thu, 16 Feb 2012 11:58:38 +0000 Min 56951@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Yes I think a database would be useful as I always wonder when I read of similar road rage incidents that I have had, if it was the same person. </p> <p>I managed to catch up with the last roadrager I had for a chat but of course, they were right and I am <em>in their way</em> and no gauntlet of potholes and parked cars is big enough to justify the the fact that for a few seconds she wasn't able to accelerate as hard as she liked before stopping at the next queue of cars a few yards away.</p> <p>I don't really see a way round it except that perhaps a whole list of cyclists targeted by the same few drivers presented to the Police <em>might</em> make them do something about it? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5296&page=2#post-56945 Thu, 16 Feb 2012 11:27:09 +0000 DaveC 56945@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@Darkside, this would be usefull as if incidents were placed on a map we could see 'hot spots' and potentially any repeat offender's route may be predicted. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5296&page=2#post-56941 Thu, 16 Feb 2012 11:21:33 +0000 Darkerside 56941@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>As kind of alluded to above, I'm wondering whether some kind of online database of 'incidents' would be of any benefit. It would be an absolute doddle to set up, and would potentially give some vaguely interesting statistics about repeated incidents (a certain company, a certain type of road feature, a time of day, whatever). Google forms in particular work nicely on smartphones.</p> <p>Downsides would be it would only be of use if completed by a decent number of cyclists, it potentially fosters a bit of an 'us and them' philosophy and doesn't in any way actually change the attitudes of the minority of drivers causing concern. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5296&page=2#post-56936 Thu, 16 Feb 2012 11:00:50 +0000 chdot 56936@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"Please feel free to ignore me"</p> <p>OK gembo <em>but</em> you and wingpig (above) and ant (and others) on other threads are raising important issues and looking for 'a way forward'.</p> <p>Starting new thread shortly. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5296&page=2#post-56930 Thu, 16 Feb 2012 10:45:12 +0000 wingpig 56930@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Where's the best place to enagage with these drivers? They're not on here as far as we know, the EEN comments pages do not suffer logic nor reason and I don't know of a local branch of that organisation of shouty drivers which occasionally supplies EEN-style comments to other media in relation to stories tangentially touching upon cycling. Some people on here have tried engaging directly with them, where they can be caught and when they wind their window down. Where are they getting their attitude and opinions from at the moment? Their parents? Newspapers? Driving organisations? Should we assiduously collect the number plate every time someone does something which looks anything more than entirely accidentally risky and feed them to the police, chasing them up, keeping our own records so that we can see for ourselves when someone crops up repeatedly? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5296#post-56927 Thu, 16 Feb 2012 10:28:56 +0000 gembo 56927@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Any chance of turning this into a constructive way forward? I feel there is a palpable menace amongst a minority of Edinburgh drivers. They don't feel cyclists should be on the road and appear to deliberately swerve at you or rant at you for existing or overtake inappropriately. This is different from bad driving which affects all road users. Plenty of that too. Can we develop Love a Cyclist bumper stickers? At one end of the spectrum and push for tougher enforcement of the law at the other end? Unless I am being paranoid this group of cyclist haters need targeted specifically as pro cycling campaigns have hitherto been linked to general benefits to all, which this faction disputes, fuelled by EEN vitriol. People do change their views but they need to be worked on in a specific way. This forum is good at describing issues but the harder task of doing something about them is perhaps not our function? Please feel free to ignore me, I am just putting off the decorating I am supposed to be doing on my holiday </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5296#post-56886 Wed, 15 Feb 2012 19:07:20 +0000 Roibeard 56886@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@Dave - anti the islands in the first place! With or without the "do not overtake cyclists at islands" signs, the goal is to slow traffic down to the speed of any passing cyclists and I object to being used in this fashion.</p> <p>They usually can't be argued as being required to aid pedestrian crossing of the roads, they are often purely traffic calming devices...</p> <p>Having been squeezed once too often at islands, I tend to leave the cycle lanes behind and plonk myself halfway between the kerbs. Even in Dunbar (without having cycled there), this might leave me on the white line.</p> <p>Which of course, results in boy racers skidding to a halt, overtaking on the wrong side of the island, or providing punishment passes after the island.</p> <p>Engineering conflict between road users just to slow traffic seems incredible, particularly where the conflict is designed to include the most vulnerable...</p> <p>I was about to say, "can you imagine anyone doing this with pedestrians", but that does appear to be happening with the "shared spaces" concept. Pedestrians seem to have more sense than we cyclists though, as they appear to not attempt to use the supposed shared bit!</p> <p>Hmm, I appear to be in rant mode today - despite having a lovely few days pottering in Wigtownshire with the Pino and drivers that don't need much encouragement to overtake properly!</p> <p>Now, if only the wind could be so easily bent to the will of cyclists...</p> <p>;-)</p> <p>Robert </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5296#post-56877 Wed, 15 Feb 2012 18:08:34 +0000 Dave 56877@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@roibeard, out of interest, then - do you prefer the islands on the Penicuik main road (which do have tiny cycle lanes and white "move in towards the kerb" marks for drivers)?</p> <p>I guess I don't disagree with you if you're trying to argue against islands altogether, but I can't believe anyone prefers the "death" versions to the oversize ones? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5296#post-56874 Wed, 15 Feb 2012 18:00:28 +0000 crowriver 56874@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em> it doesn't exist as it shouldn't be there</em></p> <p>Alas this appears to be the attitude of many drivers towards cyclists.....at least to judge by their behaviour! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5296#post-56870 Wed, 15 Feb 2012 17:29:41 +0000 Roibeard 56870@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Re Dunbar islands - I'm most definitely in the "anti" camp on this one.</p> <p>These islands are designed to make cyclists into mobile road calming devices, and quite frankly, I am not street furniture!</p> <p>Robert </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5296#post-56858 Wed, 15 Feb 2012 16:03:28 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 56858@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I can see the advertising campaign. </p> <p>[Cillit Bang Voice]<br /> "Drivers, with normal cycle lanes you could only hit cyclists with a glancing blow that may not cause them much damage, but with all new and improved Enormo-Lanes you can now drive straight into the back of a cyclist with as little effort as it takes to re-tune your stereo to the Jeremy Vine radio show."<br /> [/CBV] </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5296#post-56856 Wed, 15 Feb 2012 16:00:08 +0000 Dave 56856@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Probably wouldn't feature in the branding material for the design, no... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5296#post-56848 Wed, 15 Feb 2012 15:51:18 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 56848@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"<em>The motorist has to deliberately enter into the cycle zone and hit the cyclist which is quite different to the usual squeeze</em>"</p> <p>For some reason that's not a phrase which fills me with much confidence... :P </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5296#post-56847 Wed, 15 Feb 2012 15:48:01 +0000 Dave 56847@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>The “impossible” cycle lanes on the B7062 Peebles and similar ones eg on A1087 Dunbar and B910 Clackmannan aren’t impossible. Cars etc are allowed to enter an advisory cycle lane if that lane is clear of pedal cycles and can cross or straddle the warning line in the middle of the road if it is safe to do so. </em></p> <p>These are top-quality and should be strongly encouraged. As you say, the point isn't that drivers shouldn't be in the lane at all, but to delineate a 'safe zone' the cyclist can effectively claim when moving past the obstacle. The motorist has to deliberately enter into the cycle zone and hit the cyclist which is quite different to the usual squeeze...</p> <p>I love riding along that road through Dunbar! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5296#post-56845 Wed, 15 Feb 2012 15:43:19 +0000 minus six 56845@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Many times I've explained to bus drivers and motorists that they really must drive in relation to where i am positioned on the road, and not merely where they think i ought to be.</p> <p>Naturally the motorists just stare straight ahead in bubble mode while I firmly administer the lecture, but sometimes bus drivers do deign to understand my viewpoint. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5296#post-56837 Wed, 15 Feb 2012 15:06:33 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 56837@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"<em>If drivers were sensible</em>"</p> <p>You've hit the nail on the head, adn that's what makes the lanes 'impossible' (or rather, puts a cyclist in an impossible position).</p> <p>This came up last year when the Daily Wail got its knickers in a twist over a similar bike lane down south. "How are drivers supposed to keep out of it??!?" was the cry. </p> <p>It seems odd, but drivers need the lines, but then don't understand them. They think the lines mean they have to stay out, but then they disregard them. <strong>Large</strong> bike lanes encourage a 'this is a riduclous lane therefore I definitely don't have to abide by it' mentality. Which <em>can</em> lead, ironically, to drivers passing closer to cyclists than if the lines had not been there.</p> <p>Essentially the drivers are saying 'there's no chance I can stay out of that lane, so if I am 'forced' to drive in it then effectively it doesn't exist as it shouldn't be there'.</p> <p>Psychological responses are responsible for many reactions that seem, on the face of it, to lack any sense to them at all (viz. my experience yesterday whereby the way to show displeasure at a perceived (but incorrect) wrongdoing is to drive your car directly at a supposed cycling miscreant). </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5296#post-56835 Wed, 15 Feb 2012 14:55:26 +0000 slowcoach 56835@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The Bread Street contra-flow bus lane has always struck me as strange, if not wrong. I haven't checked recently but from <a href="http://g.co/maps/g75r2">streetview</a> taken in 2008 there were no signs to tell eastbound traffic entering Bread Street that buses and bikes are allowed to contraflow/ travel westbound, nor were there signs to say it is one-way eastbound for cars etc.<br /> According to the Traffic Signs Manual "Where cycles are permitted to use contra-flow bus lanes, markings to diagram 1048.1 BUS AND (cycle symbol) LANE must be used in place of diagram 1048." And “BUS LANE road markings to diagram 1048 (or 1048.1 if cycles are permitted to use the lane), together with direction arrows to diagram 1038, should appear at both ends of the lane, so that they can be read by drivers approaching the contra-flow lane.” Neither seems to have been done here.</p> <p>The “impossible” cycle lanes on the <a href="http://g.co/maps/t6mu2">B7062 Peebles</a> and similar ones eg on <a href="http://g.co/maps/9ffsd">A1087 Dunbar</a> and <a href="http://g.co/maps/xvvdw ">B910 Clackmannan</a> aren’t impossible. Cars etc are allowed to enter an advisory cycle lane if that lane is clear of pedal cycles and can cross or straddle the warning line in the middle of the road if it is safe to do so. If there is bike in the lane or something coming the opposite way drivers should follow the appropriate line. If there is both a bike and oncoming traffic they have to keep far enough back to be clear of the cycle. If drivers were sensible none of these lines would be needed, but we know that isn’t always the case. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5296#post-56723 Tue, 14 Feb 2012 23:41:55 +0000 Darkerside 56723@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I'd settle for a handlebar mounted megaphone that would allow me to illustrate their error in a kind, considerate and above all loud fashion. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5296#post-56720 Tue, 14 Feb 2012 23:08:19 +0000 Its_Me_Knees 56720@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@splitshift: <em>handle bar mounted surface to car missiles are the answer !</em><br /> Always the pacifist, I vote for USS Enterprise-style deflector shields instead. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5296#post-56704 Tue, 14 Feb 2012 17:57:48 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 56704@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Dave, good idea! Will put it in a 'danger' context copying in councillors. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5296#post-56689 Tue, 14 Feb 2012 16:04:31 +0000 DaveC 56689@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>anth, Get in touch with the roads dept and write a snotty letter asking for them to paint arrows showing the correct direction on the lane. Tell them you regularly ride that way and see if often. The way cars and vans park only goes to re-inforce the wrong direction assumption by drivers heading east along Bread Street. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5296#post-56687 Tue, 14 Feb 2012 15:57:01 +0000 splitshift 56687@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>some might say i am over the top but , handle bar mounted surface to car missiles are the answer !<br /> some one did say its better to be alive than right !<br /> yes , but sometimes, just sometimes.....................<br /> be safe ! Scott </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5296#post-56665 Tue, 14 Feb 2012 13:50:47 +0000 Min 56665@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I have not actually had any bother at the Eyre Place contra and I do use it fairly frequently. Maybe I am just lucky? Drivers do drive straight at me to start with then move across at the last minute but if you watch they do drive in the cycle lane anyway even if there isn't a cyclist there so I don't take it personally. I think it is because of the parked cars. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5296#post-56645 Tue, 14 Feb 2012 11:50:02 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 56645@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Ah yes, I've ridden the Eyre Place one a few times - that whole thing is a nightmare to use. Parked beer lorry as you say, people overtaking you as you try to cross to access the dropped kerb (indicating seems to do nothing as in the driver behind you's head he sees no entry so you can't possibly be turning there so he'll just ignore your arm), pedestrians wandering about into the lane, and all to be faced with a crossing with no bike light giving you the choice of dismounting and walking across or riding across on the ped phase.</p> <p>The Point Hotel contraflow is a piece of cake in comparison! :P</p> <p>@wingpig - I've promised Mel not to tell her of such things anymore. If something is sufficient for me to post on Blipfoto then she'll find out, but she's happier not knowing. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5296#post-56640 Tue, 14 Feb 2012 11:31:01 +0000 gembo 56640@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Anth I hear what you are saying about the loop, I tend to do that route in the middle of the day with lower volume traffic so not so hair raising on the 180 turn.</p> <p>Funny that I was able to guess the place as I don't know your commute route </p> <p>I was swerved at and abused several times on the cut through from eyre place to canonmills which is one way for cars but not bicycles when this was my commute.</p> <p>I fear better signage would not help such drivers. Fortunately the canonmills route had the pavement if the beer lorry wasn't parked up. Tho sometimes it was the beer lorry swerving at me. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5296#post-56639 Tue, 14 Feb 2012 11:30:27 +0000 wingpig 56639@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><blockquote><em>"...popped into my massive Heid that sometimes it is better to be alive than right"</em></blockquote></p> <p>Needs of safety are always evaluated well in advance of needs of moral-and-legal-high-ground-maintenance but occasional mentions of the odd tale of deliberate motor-threat will still beget an "oooh, be careful" from my wife (even when I've thoroughly anticipated a stupid move by a vehicle and can then watch it perform it dispassionately from a safe vantage point).</p> <p>Do other countries (particularly those with mainstream bicycle cultures) have this thing we have here where motorists will 'playfully' accelerate their tonnes of pointy metal deliberately towards extremely vulnerable road users, whether it's to get them back for some perceived road-use slight or to warn them off doing anything too cyclisty? </p>