CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: Would you eat vegetarian meat?

CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: Would you eat vegetarian meat? http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: Would you eat vegetarian meat? en Thu, 09 Apr 2026 13:19:35 +0000 Min on "Would you eat vegetarian meat?" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5428&page=3#post-58245 Fri, 24 Feb 2012 19:32:33 +0000 Min 58245@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ "And I want some Indian Runner Ducks. " Are they the ones that stand up straight? They are funny. Stepdoh on "Would you eat vegetarian meat?" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5428&page=3#post-58226 Fri, 24 Feb 2012 16:24:31 +0000 Stepdoh 58226@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Big blue label, says <a href="http://www.scotchbeefandlamb.com">Scotch Beef</a> or it says Scotch Beef on the label. That means it's been born, raised and slaughtered in Scotland under the conditions of our assurance scheme its whole life. Absolute stone cold guarantee of conditions. If it's got Scottish Beef on the label it means it's born, raised and slaughtered in Scotland but isn't under our assurance scheme (so can be from non-meat bred cattle). Bit less clear. That assumes a clarity of labelling that sometimes isn't true. Wilmington's Cow on "Would you eat vegetarian meat?" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5428&page=3#post-58225 Fri, 24 Feb 2012 16:21:15 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 58225@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ "Yes coos are definitely cute. :-) Pigs too and sheep are greatly underestimated animals IMO. I think most people don't really see them unless they are driving past, where they don't get much detail. :-P" We go to the Highland Show every year cos it's so much fun getting close up the beasts. Torn on sheep for our smallholding - there's a New Zealand breed the name of which evades me that's cool; or Zwartble (I think that's how it is spelt/spelled), which are black/brown with a white stripe down their face (apparently growing in popularity as they're quite hardy). Coos are fab! As are goats. And I want some Indian Runner Ducks. Morningsider on "Would you eat vegetarian meat?" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5428&page=3#post-58224 Fri, 24 Feb 2012 16:11:19 +0000 Morningsider 58224@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Stepdoh - probably a daft question, but how do I know whether I'm buying Scottish meat? Min on "Would you eat vegetarian meat?" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5428&page=3#post-58220 Fri, 24 Feb 2012 15:57:55 +0000 Min 58220@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Yes coos are definitely cute. :-) Pigs too and sheep are greatly underestimated animals IMO. I think most people don't really see them unless they are driving past, where they don't get much detail. :-P I am glad to see you are happy about conditions and keeping up the good work! Farmers used to be very unhappy about taking beasts to the local slaughterhouse in my home town. :-( No choice though. Stepdoh on "Would you eat vegetarian meat?" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5428&page=3#post-58215 Fri, 24 Feb 2012 15:32:47 +0000 Stepdoh 58215@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Cows are cute! Search belted galloway and tell me coos aren't cute :). Even sheep have their charms, some are just weird looking. My take on it is that in my job and as a meat eater I'm in a position to help make sure the life of animals is a good one up to and including point of slaughter, and make sure that people realise this is something worth paying for and supporting. That's one of the reasons the SSPCA said no other organisation has done more for farm animal welfare in Scotland than us. If you eat meat, eat good quality meat is my message, from whatever retailer pleases you. Min on "Would you eat vegetarian meat?" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5428&page=3#post-58211 Fri, 24 Feb 2012 15:20:05 +0000 Min 58211@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Fairy nuff Stepdoh. ;-) Just so that people know where I am coming from by the way (I don't want anyone to get the wrong idea), I would not and have never tried to argue that anyone should stop eating meat. I do however think that most people need to reduce their meat intake a great deal. It is like driving a car. It has its uses but most people do it far too much. We have got to a situation where people demand to eat meat morning noon and night and I have actually seen someone throw a fit at a wedding which had a vegan buffet because he could not eat one meal that did not have meat in it. Unbelievable. I am also sickened by the sentimentality that people show towards certain animals (the cute ones) while not caring about the ugly ones or the ones they don't see being led into the slaughter house. I stopped being a member of IFAW after the founder admitted that he could not put in the work to save animals if they weren't cute (harp seals being the main one). Myself, I have been vegetarian for nearly 20 years and I will not be eating lab grown meat because I hate the stuff and think it is disgusting. Also, I love animals but I am not sentimental about them. Stepdoh on "Would you eat vegetarian meat?" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5428&page=2#post-58210 Fri, 24 Feb 2012 15:17:55 +0000 Stepdoh 58210@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ TBH can't really comment on veal, not my expertise, but is a minute market in Scotland. Guess a more relevant argument would be by drinking milk you implicitly support shooting of calve, but again is a bit of an overly emotive one. I stand by saying that it is a far more emotive argument saying that you have to kill something to eat it than something has to be killed for you to eat it. But agree to disagree, and I accept I probably have a slightly skewed view. Stepdoh on "Would you eat vegetarian meat?" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5428&page=2#post-58207 Fri, 24 Feb 2012 15:10:44 +0000 Stepdoh 58207@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Cattle and sheep not so much but pigs and chickens almost certainly. Yep, both examples of intensive price driven systems. Our pig farming in Scotland, although at some of the highest welfare standards in the world (hence why we have the SSPCA logo on our branding) is still more intensive/scientific than C&S farming. No where near chicken farming though (we don't cover chicken, just bovine/ovine/porcine) Wilmington's Cow on "Would you eat vegetarian meat?" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5428&page=2#post-58205 Fri, 24 Feb 2012 15:04:58 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 58205@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ There was a thing on Countryfile the other week (aka. televisual Daily Wail, but it's still quite good) about British veal and the fact that ALL veal in the UK is produced 'ethically', but they have an uphill challenge with the British public who still think veal crates and so on still exist. An upsurge in veal purchasing would mean that male dairy calves aren't shot straight away. Is it a big difference morally from being shot a few months later to be eaten? Probably not, but it seems less 'wasteful'. Min on "Would you eat vegetarian meat?" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5428&page=2#post-58201 Fri, 24 Feb 2012 15:00:01 +0000 Min 58201@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ "To take the veal argument to the other extreme, not eating it suggests that you implicitly agree that all boy dairy calves are shot. But dairy aint my area of expertise, so I can't comment with certainty." You can produce veal without the use of veal crates and there is such a thing as British veal. Min on "Would you eat vegetarian meat?" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5428&page=2#post-58199 Fri, 24 Feb 2012 14:55:55 +0000 Min 58199@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ "It's saying they should be unemotive about the cuteness of the calf, while using an emotively-charged argument that they should be prepared to draw the knife themselves." If you are fine about animals being killed for meat then why would the suggestion that you do the killing yourself be "emotionally charged"? I do see your point but I think we may have to agree to disagree on it! "Again a bit of a red herring, yes we eat them, mainly in anonymously minced form, but they are for milk production, not meat production, hence why they look like a cowhide thrown over drying rack with a huge udder." You are right of course, I am pretty sure there would still be dairy production, even if you couldn't sell the male calves for meat though maybe there would be less as it would probably be more expensive. Particularly if you had to just grow the calves and keep them to their old age (taking the "no slaughter" rule to the extreme). But I think that Baldcyclists argument is that without meat production then the countryside would be stripped bare of all farm animals which I don't think is true. You would still have sheep as well for wool. There is a still a large amount of monoculture in meat farming though. Cattle and sheep not so much but pigs and chickens almost certainly. Stepdoh on "Would you eat vegetarian meat?" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5428&page=2#post-58190 Fri, 24 Feb 2012 14:41:49 +0000 Stepdoh 58190@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ "freakishly uddered Fresians and others would be no bad thing." Again a bit of a red herring, yes we eat them, mainly in anonymously minced form, but they are for milk production, not meat production, hence why they look like a cowhide thrown over drying rack with a huge udder. In Scotland on the meat production side at least we have LOADS of different breeds, angus, highlander, galloway, belties and we interbreed them with bigger continental breedsm charolais, limousin etc to make hardy beasts that can live here but produce good, interesting meat. Again that's why it's important to know the overall provenance of what you are eating, even meat from the supermarket with our label on it ain't auld dairy coo, even shrinkwrapped packs of mince. From the dairy perspective, the only reason we have such animals is that they are the only ones who can produce milk at the price people expect to pay for it, only even they can't do that. Stepdoh on "Would you eat vegetarian meat?" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5428&page=2#post-58185 Fri, 24 Feb 2012 14:35:40 +0000 Stepdoh 58185@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ But even in that example, it's not so much them being theoretically prepared to kill the animal themselves, just accepting that the animal died to make it. It's saying they should be unemotive about the cuteness of the calf, while using an emotively-charged argument that they should be prepared to draw the knife themselves. I'm being devil's advocate here, I know, but surely from a purely theoretical standpoint the argument is: Will you be prepared to eat product a if animal a was killed in its production. To take the veal argument to the other extreme, not eating it suggests that you implicitly agree that all boy dairy calves are shot. But dairy aint my area of expertise, so I can't comment with certainty. Min on "Would you eat vegetarian meat?" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5428&page=2#post-58182 Fri, 24 Feb 2012 14:26:44 +0000 Min 58182@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ "Whether you do it yourself or someone else does it for you I would say is morally neutral." Yes it is. Happily scoffing imported veal whilst getting your knickers in a twist about a calf that was about to be slaughtered humanely is not. IMO. There are many, many other examples I could give. Balders - I don't think I am quite understanding your point? IMO, seeing an end to vast monocultures of freakishly uddered Fresians and others would be no bad thing. The interesting variety of good old British farm animals that used to be popular are now only kept by enthusiasts anyway. Stepdoh on "Would you eat vegetarian meat?" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5428&page=2#post-58178 Fri, 24 Feb 2012 14:12:17 +0000 Stepdoh 58178@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Bu-ut, it's a theoretical point that's sometimes used to try and obtain a real-world outcome, so it's worth countering. In theoretical terms, what I'm saying is that it's a bit of emotive red herring to focus on the actual process of killing, you just have to accept that something was killed. Whether you do it yourself or someone else does it for you I would say is morally neutral. Baldcyclist on "Would you eat vegetarian meat?" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5428&page=2#post-58176 Fri, 24 Feb 2012 14:07:35 +0000 Baldcyclist 58176@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ @Min No they wouldn't have, all of the animals that have been slaughtered have been 'produced' for the sole purpose of being eaten, they would never have existed. Of course the original wild animals they were bred from would and did exist, as do their offspring... Min on "Would you eat vegetarian meat?" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5428&page=2#post-58173 Fri, 24 Feb 2012 13:59:52 +0000 Min 58173@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Baldcyclist "Were it not for farming, these animals would have never existed in the first place." Of course they would have existed. If they didn't exist in the first place then they wouldn't be here at all. They have all been bred from wild creatures, they didn't just spontaneously spring into being. The wild versions still roam around Britain in various places. Whether they are happy or not I don't know, I haven't asked them. Stepdoh"The fact this is one step removed from them and being done efficiently by professionals in a clean environment is a very good thing, it's probably the best thing that's ever been done to help raise animal welfare standards at the point of slaughter." As far as I can tell no-one here and certainly not myself is arguing that animals should not be slaughtered by professionals. As Wingpig has said, it is only a theoretical point. Nelly on "Would you eat vegetarian meat?" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5428&page=2#post-58171 Fri, 24 Feb 2012 13:48:18 +0000 Nelly 58171@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ @stepdoh 'stand in a tanning pond' Did they not used to use urine for that task in ye olde days of yore? eurgh Stepdoh on "Would you eat vegetarian meat?" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5428&page=2#post-58169 Fri, 24 Feb 2012 13:43:57 +0000 Stepdoh 58169@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Sorry Min, still wouldn't agree. I don't think people need to be prepared to kill anything, just accept that meat comes from animals and that they are killed, and that there is a value in this. So the value judgement you make is that if you buy cheaper imported meat, it won't have been treated as well. The fact this is one step removed from them and being done efficiently by professionals in a clean environment is a very good thing, it's probably the best thing that's ever been done to help raise animal welfare standards at the point of slaughter. Just because it's done quickly or on a larger basis doesn't make it intrinsic more cruel, I would argue strenuously to the opposite. It's like saying you can't wear shoes unless you skin the cow and stand in a tanning pond. Baldcyclist on "Would you eat vegetarian meat?" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5428&page=2#post-58168 Fri, 24 Feb 2012 13:42:53 +0000 Baldcyclist 58168@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Were it not for farming, these animals would have never existed in the first place. Is there not some solace in knowing that an animal which lets not kid ourselves has been 'produced' for the sole purpose of being eaten has had a happy life? If humans were vegetarian I'm pretty sure there wouldn't be herds of happy cows roaming around wild in the countryside. Could an unforeseen consequence of artificial meat being (most probably) cheaper to produce eventually lead to the demise of these animals from the countryside, would that not be a real shame? wingpig on "Would you eat vegetarian meat?" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5428&page=2#post-58166 Fri, 24 Feb 2012 13:39:28 +0000 wingpig 58166@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ @Min Yep, is only a theoretical point, but would have been aimed (were it ever deployed) at people who hadn't thought things through about the whole work-involved-in-producing-food thing, which could arguably be greater for domesticated food-plants as they're generally non-motile and sometimes need encouragement to reproduce. I haven't really seen a proper live principles-only meat-versus-veg argument since school. Min on "Would you eat vegetarian meat?" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5428&page=2#post-58165 Fri, 24 Feb 2012 13:31:03 +0000 Min 58165@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ I don't think that argument is really about people actually killing the animals themselves but just that they should be prepared to. Many people have a very hypocritical attitude to animals where they only care about cute fluffy animals that are alive and not about the dead ones on their plate. Does anyone remember the sweet little white calf that "escaped" being culled for foot a mouth a few years back and which there was a huge campaign to save? Few people give a toss about how many sweet little white calves are on the supermarket (or farmers market) shelves so long as they go well with chips and a dash of peppercorn sauce. I think that is the sort of thing that is being argued against. Stepdoh on "Would you eat vegetarian meat?" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5428&page=2#post-58164 Fri, 24 Feb 2012 13:24:37 +0000 Stepdoh 58164@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Well the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jainism">Jainists</a> look down on even the vegans as killers of living things. wingpig on "Would you eat vegetarian meat?" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5428&page=2#post-58162 Fri, 24 Feb 2012 13:16:04 +0000 wingpig 58162@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ I've never had enough arguments with ethical vegetarians to have had an opportunity to use the "I think you should only eat vegetables, fruits, pulses, grains, nuts and fungi* that you've planted, nurtured and harvested yourself" counter-argument to the "eat only what you're prepared to knife and butcher with your own hands" position. Without the invention of agriculture (with appropriate labour distribution/concentration, both for arable and pastoral disciplines) we'd still be huddling in trees being menaced by leopards, fighting each other over picking-rights to the most heavily berry-laden branches. *mycete is murder Stepdoh on "Would you eat vegetarian meat?" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5428&page=2#post-58156 Fri, 24 Feb 2012 13:02:31 +0000 Stepdoh 58156@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ ** Disclosure: My job is to communicate the benefits of eating Scotch Beef and Lamb (and Specially Selected Pork) as part of a healthy balanced diet, everything I say only relates to these particular products. ** Not sure about the lab meat, suspect it would be a very standardised bland taste, as much of what makes beef and particularly lamb taste interesting is what they eat. But for a convenient protein to go in a burger that's about to be smothered in tomato sauce, yeah, why not. One theme of here is an interesting one, about buying better and more ethical meat by going to farmer's markets etc is a little bit of a red herring. All the beef and lamb in Scotland, even the stuff you buy from the supermarket, comes from mainly family owned or tenanted farms, the corporatised farming model seen in America doesn't happen here. It is slaughtered in one of not many abattoirs in Scotland, the only supermarket which directly owns an abbatoir is Woodheads which is owned by Morrisons. The big players in Lamb and Beef are Scottish family owned businesses, who supply carcases and sometimes finished, packed products to the supermarkets (and McDonalds). They also supply butchers and contract kill for farmers who then further butcher and supply to the public. I wouldn't like to make people kill their own food. They would make a bloody awful job of it and the animal would suffer unreasonably. Abattoirs in Scotland can kill animals calmly, quickly and relatively painlessly, and it's done respectfully by skilled professionals. This is not only good for the animal, it's good for the quality of the product. You can raise cattle happily it's whole life, then all that work can be ruined if you stress it out just before dispatching it. Stress = Lactic Acid build up = bad meat. The main difference is the butcher *may* have chosen the animals he's selling at the market or has a relationship with a particular farmer, or the farmer can tell you exactly how the cattle has been raised. So you are supporting a local business. From the animal ethical standpoint though, there isn't much difference between going to the supermarket and buying Scotch Beef and Lamb and buying it elsewhere. Cyclingmollie on "Would you eat vegetarian meat?" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5428&page=2#post-58153 Fri, 24 Feb 2012 12:54:08 +0000 Cyclingmollie 58153@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Anth, I hope you enjoy that course. I went on a breadmaking one out at Lamancha last year and it was really inspiring. Beef is a by-product of arable farming. In a crop rotation cattle improve the fertility of fallow. Overwintering feed is provided by ensilaged grass and turnips. Or at least that's how it used to be done. Wilmington's Cow on "Would you eat vegetarian meat?" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5428&page=2#post-58056 Thu, 23 Feb 2012 23:29:07 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 58056@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ "Actually my personal belief is that if you are prepared to eat meat you should be prepared to complete the entire process. One could argue that those who hunt/shoot/fish are the only "honest" carnivores and all the others are just paying people to do their dirty work..." I couldn't agree more actually. Meat doesn't arrive in the world in a cellophane wrapped parcel. Mel and I have a butchery course in Dumfries-shire once her leg is mended. We're not actually slaughtering the pig (see previous post, there be rules against that) but will be learning how to divide it up and where the cuts come from etc. Nelly on "Would you eat vegetarian meat?" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5428&page=2#post-58054 Thu, 23 Feb 2012 23:20:49 +0000 Nelly 58054@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ @gembo + a linen suit and a havana hat? gembo on "Would you eat vegetarian meat?" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5428&page=2#post-58044 Thu, 23 Feb 2012 22:18:25 +0000 gembo 58044@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Papingo on sauchiehall st used to do a pizza which was thin base, olive oil and peppercorns. I used to have it with a fine chianti and some fava beans