http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: Devonian/other Headcam Crash en Wed, 08 Apr 2026 01:30:55 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5594&page=2#post-60364 Sat, 10 Mar 2012 13:47:23 +0000 Smudge 60364@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Curious, just tried to view it and it came up with the message "this video is private" </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5594&page=2#post-60360 Sat, 10 Mar 2012 13:36:20 +0000 SRD 60360@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Funny - this morning, at the market, Dawn, who we get our eggs from, wanted to know if the light on my helmet was a camera. Became clear she had seen this clip on youtube. I assumed at first she'd seen magnatom's clip on TV. But no, it was this one, and she was really appalled at the driver! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5594&page=2#post-60065 Thu, 08 Mar 2012 15:07:29 +0000 Smudge 60065@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@ARobComp aargh, that is tough to read*! Much simpler to listen to "dah-di-dah-dit di-dah-dah" lol (assuming you are an operator)</p> <p>Of course our maritime friends encountered this problem, and provided a solution...<br /> Di-Di-Dah (. . -) meaning "You are standing into danger" </p> <p>*but I had to...(sigh). For the benefit of those who don't know the "code";<br /> "<em>I am pretty sure of your intentions and should you continue with them we are going to end up occupying the same piece of road</em>"<br /> AR FB OM ;-) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5594&page=2#post-60059 Thu, 08 Mar 2012 14:25:48 +0000 ARobComp 60059@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@Darkerside Semaphore? Morse?</p> <p>Might start getting a little complex.<br /> .. .- -- .--. .-. . - - -.-- ... ..- .-. . --- ..-. -.-- --- ..- .-. .. -. - . -. - .. --- -. ... --..-- .- -. -.. ... .... --- ..- .-.. -.. -.-- --- ..- -.-. --- -. - .. -. ..- . .-- .. - .... - .... . -- .-- . .----. .-. . --. --- .. -. --. - --- . -. -.. ..- .--. --- -.-. -.-. ..- .--. -.-- .. -. --. - .... . ... .- -- . .--. .. . -.-. . --- ..-. .-. --- .- -.. </p> <p>Semaphore would take a couple minutes.....</p> <p>Maybe shouting is better.</p> <p>I must admit that sometimes I get into situations because I just cant believe that the car is going to do what it's going to do.<br /> For example. Turning cars from South bridge onto chamber street will just assume there is enough space and follow the front car bumper to bumper. There is no way they could see if there is a car or bike coming, they might perhaps see a bus. It's happened to me a couple times now and I'm more careful but one time was a matter inches. That lady got a nice SPD scratch down her bonnet for her troubles. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5594&page=2#post-60049 Thu, 08 Mar 2012 13:47:18 +0000 Greenroofer 60049@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I watched one of this chap's other videos, involving an altercation with the driver of a black car.</p> <p>While I can understand that after a collision it's reasonable to utter the occasional oath, the language he used in this encounter with the black car (basically a close pass) was somewhat <em>intemperate</em>. The level of invective seemed out of all proportion to the severity of the incident.</p> <p>This is the problem with YouTube videos. Whatever the rights and wrongs of the situation, cyclists can come across as either aggressively unpleasant or piously self-righteous. Neither is good for our image. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5594&page=2#post-60044 Thu, 08 Mar 2012 13:41:13 +0000 Darkerside 60044@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@ARobComp I think the second message was the one being conveyed by the IoW ferry as my capsized wayfarer drifted towards it...</p> <p>And we'd possibly need an alternative for 'I am pretty sure of your intentions, and should you continue with them we're going to end up occupying the same piece of road' </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5594&page=2#post-60042 Thu, 08 Mar 2012 13:34:38 +0000 splitshift 60042@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>had I been driving super tanker then she wouldnt have walked /driven away ! still I would like to think I would have spotted her sooner and realised that she was a loony, like evrey other road user, regardless of vehicle, or not !I reckon if he had been wearing a hi vis vest then the accident would not have happened !(irony again ! ) size 9 steel toe cap boots v door skin , I know steelies win !<br /> be safe !<br /> scott </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5594&page=2#post-60040 Thu, 08 Mar 2012 13:26:54 +0000 ARobComp 60040@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@smudge @darkerside 5 blasts is indeed state your intentions but is often used as "I am unable to change course due to depth/space issues - keep clear" Often to be heard on the solent in Cowes week!</p> <p>Watching the longer video I think that he expected her to continue on. Certainly looks that way. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5594&page=2#post-60024 Thu, 08 Mar 2012 12:25:33 +0000 Smudge 60024@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@Darkerside, tsk tsk, that's just the way it's used by heavies in the Forth when muppets in pleasure craft look like getting into dangerous positions ;-)<br /> tempting though...</p> <p>5 blasts is "I am unsure of your intentions" isn't it? :-D</p> <p>@Roibeard, that only works where motorised is restricted in it's ability to manouevre though, at least in theory! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5594#post-60016 Thu, 08 Mar 2012 11:48:36 +0000 Roibeard 60016@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>On the sea, motorised gives way to non-motorised, except where motorised is bigger and heavier.</p> <p>Hmmm, not so different after all...</p> <p>;-)</p> <p>Robert </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5594#post-60015 Thu, 08 Mar 2012 11:44:28 +0000 Darkerside 60015@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Seamanship would work nicely as well with allowing you 5 blasts of the airzound to ask someone to get out of the way! And the possibilities with flags... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5594#post-60014 Thu, 08 Mar 2012 11:37:22 +0000 chdot 60014@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"I do use it as a rebuke and enjoy watching them blush and slink away as all the passers by/other drivers gawp at them."</p> <p>Well if it works...</p> <p>I get impression that most such people (and probably "passers by/other drivers") just think you <em>are</em> in the way and they are doing nothing wrong. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5594#post-60009 Thu, 08 Mar 2012 11:24:52 +0000 Smudge 60009@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@Darkerside, yes I love my airzound. A bell is great on a shared use path/canal towpath etc but useless in traffic. The airzound is for when motor vehicles are cutting me up accidentally/closing in on me or looking like they might do something silly because they haven't seen me. A quick toot on the horn lets them know I'm there whilst being less aggressive sounding than a shout. (imho)</p> <p>I will confess however that when a car deliberately barges me out because I'm "just a bicycle" I do use it as a rebuke and enjoy watching them blush and slink away as all the passers by/other drivers gawp at them.<br /> I know I probably shouldn't, but my principle is they will think twice next time they're about to bully someone...</p> <p>As to avoidable crashes, in a former life I used to sometimes teach people a little of the International Rules for the Prevention of Collisions at Sea. Regs which affect all boat users equally from rowing boat to supertanker when on the sea. (regardless of whether or not the operator is trained/qualified!)<br /> I can no longer quote verbatim, however one of the first paragraphs of the regs says roughly that regardless of "right of way", anyone who is involved in a collision which could have been avoided by good seamanship caries equal fault/blame.<br /> I do sometimes wonder if we shouldn't substitute "good driving" for good seamanship and apply it to the roads! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5594#post-59987 Thu, 08 Mar 2012 10:24:46 +0000 Roibeard 59987@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@Dave - I think there's a "ooo, that's dangerous, must steer clear" vibe that unusual bikes give off. There may even be statistically significant studies that show lidless cyclists get given more room.</p> <p>I definitely felt I was given more room on one of LaidBack's trikes round Melville drive's cycle lane than on an upright - a taxi even pulled <em>out </em>to pass!</p> <p>Didn't work last night though when a MAMICar attempted to undertake the Pino up Minto Road before the road works - I'd pulled out of the bus lane early to get into the stream of traffic. He ran out of room and ended up beside me and daughter for an entire red sequence.</p> <p>Long enough for a substantial monologue discussing the relative value of a few seconds of his time versus our safety. I'm presuming his resolute desire to look straight ahead was down to increasing shame...</p> <p>Robert </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5594#post-59986 Thu, 08 Mar 2012 10:24:11 +0000 Darkerside 59986@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>On a vaguely similar note, this is one of the reasons I've never bothered getting an air-horn. On the odd occasions where someone has cut me up, I've been too busy braking/turning/generally avoiding them to even remember to shout, let alone press a button. I'd probably only ever use it to rebuke drivers which, whilst satisfying, ups the stakes a bit more than a wagged finger at the next traffic lights.</p> <p>Anyone with an airzound-y thing find them useful? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5594#post-59976 Thu, 08 Mar 2012 10:07:51 +0000 Dave 59976@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@Insto - I was thinking about BadDriverVille before, but having said that, it's obvious that CyclistInclinedToAnnoyOthers -types would also have more run-ins, so it may still be the case that people who in some way "deserve" to be in accidents are ending up with headcams disproportionately, even though the use of a headcam itself isn't relevant.</p> <p>As someone who has used a camera at different times on a variety of routes / bikes, I find this an interesting topic. I used to film quite a lot, after I got a waterproof camera rig for kayaking and realised I could dual-purpose it. I stopped a while after I got the lowracer and realised that nothing bad ever happened around it (I think in about 18 months, one person cut me up). </p> <p>Now I'm on a normal bike in town, I have run-ins much more often, and consider getting a camera again from time to time. But why? I'm pretty sure that I ride the same way and I'm on the same roads at the same time of day. </p> <p>I guess, ironically, the only way to compare might be to film them both! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5594#post-59947 Wed, 07 Mar 2012 21:59:43 +0000 steveo 59947@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Easy to say from here but it should have been just another case of being cut up by a moron. </p> <p>He had right of way makes a lousy epitaph. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5594#post-59945 Wed, 07 Mar 2012 21:57:13 +0000 custard 59945@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>have to agree,it looks avoidable<br /> these lecky bikes<br /> do they run standard brakes?<br /> wondering if they are up to the job with extra weight and possible extra speed </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5594#post-59941 Wed, 07 Mar 2012 21:35:51 +0000 Instography 59941@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@Dave<br /> Sure. I was thinking about this as I cycled along to the airport reacting to, first, a Land Rover crossing Melville Street that I wasn't certain was going to stop, then an Audi turning right out of Murrayfield Avenue onto Corstorphine Road / Roseburn Terrace that might have gone across me and a white van coming out of the little shop car park between Kirk Loan and Glebe Road that might have been planning to come out. I think it's more of a chicken and egg situation where riders find themselves in getting into scrapes, which leads, as you say, to getting a head cam, and then continues as before with the scrapes now being recorded.</p> <p>In each of my non-incidents this evening I could see that something might happen, stopped pedalling and covered the brakes until I'd decided either that it was OK (the Land Rover stopped and the Audi turned sharply into the cars' lane and not into my bus lane) or that I would need to slow down (the white van kept on coming and stopped across the bus lane forcing his way into the cars).</p> <p>What I think is interesting about your man, in the link crowriver posted, is that the possibility of something happening can be seen before the car even starts its right turn and long before it starts its left turn across his path. I realise I'm watching this comfortably at home and I'm not there but it's plainly not even slowing down for the give way as it turns right. Me, I think I'd have been slowing down before it even started its turn. He seems to have seen it - he's looking at it to point his camera at it, it's indicating but he barrels on. Watching it again, rather than a warning it looks more like his air horn is a rebuke for the right turn as he catches up to the car but he's expecting it to carry on. He does start braking as the car starts to turn left across him. But by that point it's too late.</p> <p>In a way he's right, in the sense that he has right of way and she's plainly not seen him (in spite of what she says. I think she's stupid and thinks it makes it sound better somehow) and she's a rubbish driver who is wholly at fault at every stage of her manoeuvre but I think his crash was avoidable and somewhere he chose not to avoid but to assert his right. But I agree that it's not the head cam that's influenced his riding. He probably does have a long history of run ins with cars that predate the headcam. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5594#post-59938 Wed, 07 Mar 2012 21:24:50 +0000 Min 59938@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Yes he does seem to slow down when the left indicator comes on but it is too late by then. I can't believe the woman just keeps shouting that she saw him, as if that made it okay to cut him up like that. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5594#post-59937 Wed, 07 Mar 2012 21:23:40 +0000 wingpig 59937@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>It looks like he slows down a bit (08:43:31 for about a second) but then stops slowing down, possibly even speeding back up a little.<br /> It also really really sounds like he's dubbed extra crash noises over the top. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5594#post-59935 Wed, 07 Mar 2012 21:08:37 +0000 Dave 59935@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Now that I'm at home and can actually see the video - I reckon I would also have crashed there (although I neither have a horn or an e-assist). I think it looks more reckless because the relative speed of the car makes it seem like he speeds up / fails to brake, where that's not the case if you concentrate on the background scenery. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5594#post-59928 Wed, 07 Mar 2012 19:18:22 +0000 Cyclingmollie 59928@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I think he panicked. If more people do cycle in future the skill level of those new cyclists is going to require that they are coralled into off road facilities for their own safety. That's going to include everyone because the prevailing hegemony is not going to be "ours" but that of an idealogue working with business. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5594#post-59926 Wed, 07 Mar 2012 18:51:35 +0000 Dave 59926@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>"I've often wondered about the extent to which headcams lead, consciously or unconsciously, to people getting into scrapes to prove the point they set out to record in the first place."</em></p> <p>It seems to me that there is an obvious selection bias in the sense that cyclists who ride in <em>JoyousCarefulDriverville </em>won't have any run-ins, while cyclists who ride in <em>BigBadLeftHookville </em>will have lots of run-ins, and are more likely to get a camera.</p> <p>This means that when you look at the footage of headcam cyclists, they will always be seen to have more issues than people who have no issues... because that's why they got a camera. </p> <p>I'm not sure at all about the idea of people getting a camera and then creating accidents to film, because that implies both heroic levels of courage as well as an incredible ability to manufacture other road users into positions where they then make good footage. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5594#post-59922 Wed, 07 Mar 2012 18:34:47 +0000 Roibeard 59922@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>From the other video, the car is definitely indicating right, so I can understand the horn to be a rebuke rather than a "look out I'm here" horn. I'd have expected to tuck in behind the car too, not to be immediately left hooked.</p> <p>They didn't start indicating left until after the horn. Of course, he's now on the horn, and unable to brake before the left hook.</p> <p>I think I'll stick to bellowing - at least that way I'm still in full control!</p> <p>Robert </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5594#post-59921 Wed, 07 Mar 2012 18:32:52 +0000 holisticglint 59921@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Shocking driving meets stubborn cycling? Looks like the guy assumed the car was going to go straight on after the aggressive u-turn so blasted th horn while holding the line but got caught out by the left hook.</p> <p>Very avoidable but I must admit to being guilty of the same kind of refusing to yield on occasion without the aid of airhorn or headcam - fortunately I rarely get hit... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5594#post-59919 Wed, 07 Mar 2012 18:20:35 +0000 crowriver 59919@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Having had a quick skeg at his other videos the guy seems to ride an electric assisted bike, so was probably going quite fast. I suppose it could affect his braking too if he's full throttle.</p> <p>He also comes across as a bit of a tit in some of his vids, frankly. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5594#post-59918 Wed, 07 Mar 2012 18:13:49 +0000 Instography 59918@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>But even so, it indicates a determination to hold the line - hoot and carry on - rather than react defensively and slow down to see what's going to happen next. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5594#post-59917 Wed, 07 Mar 2012 18:11:40 +0000 crowriver 59917@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>It may be more instructive to watch this video by the same user. You can clearly see how it happened, and how little time he had to anticipate/react.</p> <p>Personally I would have slammed the brakes on, but then I don't have an air horn. Maybe it's a case of air horn creating overconfidence, rather than helmet cam?</p> <p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfokJpBcQ-c" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfokJpBcQ-c</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5594#post-59912 Wed, 07 Mar 2012 18:01:37 +0000 Roibeard 59912@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The horn could have been for pulling out right in front of the cyclist - it's a staggered crossroads, so the car could easily have been continuing up the road rather than turning left.</p> <p>Yes, the left indicator is flashing from when the car was travelling on the wrong side of the road, but that's just 1 second prior to the impact, and after the horn was sounding. There isn't enough footage prior to the incident to see if the driver had indicated their intent to cross straight over, so I'd give the cyclist the benefit of the doubt (without seeing their other videos).</p> <p>Robert </p>