http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: Are "Real Cyclists" the enemy? en Thu, 21 May 2026 17:42:03 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5674&page=6#post-61334 Thu, 15 Mar 2012 14:33:22 +0000 ruggtomcat 61334@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I think the magnitude of change in perception due to clothing is overstated, in a very confirmation bias kinda way. </p> <p>The wearing of helmets does make cycling seem more dangerous, but not as much as being sandwiched between three busses and a taxi. I am broadly in agreement with the sentiment 'when roads are safer people will no longer use safety gear, and not using safety gear doesn't make roads safer. We need safe infrastructure, and then mass participation will follow (along with normal clothes).'</p> <p>I think this whole debate may stem from the fact that changes to infrastructure seem hard if not impossible to bring about whereas changes in clothing can be done easily. However I think this is putting the cart before the horse, to mix my transport metaphors slightly.</p> <p>Worrying about what you fellow cyclist is wearing seems silly and inconsequential when placed next to the shocking fact that cycle lanes are legal parking spaces at weekends. What would encourage cycling more, knowing that you have a car free route to wherever you want to go or knowing you can wear normal clothes (but still have to mix with multi-tonne traffic)? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5674&page=6#post-61330 Thu, 15 Mar 2012 14:25:57 +0000 Uberuce 61330@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@Smudge: <em>I actually think that mtb's are partially responsible for some of the resurgence in cycling we are seeing (I am thinking of ten to twenty years ago here). Before MTB's there were kids bikes, "old" bikes and racers</em></p> <p>Yarp: my sister got her racer in 1988 but by the time my twin and I reached the same age in 1990, the MTB craze had come in and her bike was at cordoroy levels of uncool.</p> <p>My respectable highminded gripe with the MTB, which I keep forgetting to emphasise is secondary to my agreement with the <em>No matter what you ride, as long as you do</em> motto is this: either because they're dipping their toe in the water as an adult, but more likely because they're a teenager of non-cycling parents who don't get why 'cheap' is worse value than 'moderately priced' on a bike, most people's first bike is going to be a little bit BSO. A bicycle shaped object shaped bike, now that I think of it. </p> <p>I harbour the theory that since there's more to get horribly wrong on a bouncer with knobbly tyres than on a hybrid, cyclocross or road bike, the horrible riding experience will turn so many prospective cyclists off that a few weeks or months after their purchase and first ride there will be less folk keeping it up than there would if the MTB craze had never happened and had instead been a cyclocross or road racing craze. </p> <p>We're in a fixed gear craze, which I won't describe as a track cycling craze since it's more about the hipsters* and homebrewing stylish old racers than it is about carbon and goatsepeed. I'd imagine the sod-this rate is fairly high, but it usually takes less effort to turn a fixie into singlespeed than a bouncer into a tarmac-runner. In fact I can use myself as an example here; I got so fed up of downhills on the Genesis that I flipped it to single when I was taking the winter studlies off.</p> <p>*he said, hoping no-one would notice he excluded himself</p> <p>The less highminded gripes are the aforementioned engineering aesthetic, and the fact I have such poor balance that I could never be any good at mountain biking and am jealous, but not really jealous since those bikes are sour anyway. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5674&page=6#post-61308 Thu, 15 Mar 2012 13:23:48 +0000 Smudge 61308@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@Fimm lol, that'll teach me :-)) I'm actually incognito today with a white Charge Duster MTB and was on a black dahon folder earlier in the week(!) Hope to be back on the Surly next week though B-).<br /> I haven't found it to be a "boy magnet" ;-) but it has certainly sparked the odd conversation and I did have a lady hillwalker compliment it last week when I jumped off at Linlithgow station. </p> <p>Must be a boy thing, bike spotting ;-)) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5674&page=6#post-61282 Thu, 15 Mar 2012 12:12:39 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 61282@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>My favourite Munro recently (I've only got 20 or so, not really a bagger, just happened tohave walked up a few) was one of those on the edge of the Cuillin.</p> <p>Liked it because we hadn't actually intended to walk to the top at all, but we kept saying, "Let's just walk to that bit". Before we knew it we were in a corrie, looking up and thinking "The top's just there, we might as well." Probabyl still 1000 feet to go, and the cloud came in when we were at the top, so we missed out on a view of the rest of the Cuillin, but them's the breaks (I reckon the view of it from Bla Bheinn is the best anyway - or down in Elgol). Mist descended as we came down - visibility down to about 10 metres at most. Compass, map, phone GPS served us well. And was glad I had waterproof walking kit as the ist was 'clingy'. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5674&page=6#post-61280 Thu, 15 Mar 2012 12:07:34 +0000 fimm 61280@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@Smudge hmmm you'll be one of several "men with bikes" around, then. </p> <p>My friend has a Surly Long Haul Trucker, she reckons it's a 'proper boy magent' (her words not mine) - I'll have to look more carefully at the bikes in future... </p> <p>@Dave, yes, I've biked in towards Culra bothy (on a bike that was too big, with a 65L rucksack on my back, ouch). </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5674&page=6#post-61279 Thu, 15 Mar 2012 12:02:13 +0000 Tom 61279@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Hi fimm, that's a good total. I've bagged 64 and it was the old mountain bike that I bought to reach the more remote ones that got me back into cycling. For the first few years I cycled wearing hill-walking kit - boots, Troll tights, Goretex jacket. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5674&page=6#post-61275 Thu, 15 Mar 2012 11:52:24 +0000 Dave 61275@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>We've skipped a good chunk of the 30km round trip in to some of the Cairngorm hills by biking it. Very practical and we do just lock them together awkwardly and stash in the heather :) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5674&page=6#post-61269 Thu, 15 Mar 2012 11:15:54 +0000 Smudge 61269@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@Fimm, ahh hello, yes I recognise you now. I'm the short bald bloke with the black surly Long Haul Trucker, normally wearing a grey altura night vision jacket. :-) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5674&page=6#post-61267 Thu, 15 Mar 2012 11:09:50 +0000 cb 61267@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Lots of hill walkers take use bikes to get to the foot of the hill, it's pretty rare to see bikes up a hill.</p> <p>Big remote areas like the Cairngorms, Tarf and Tilt and Ben Alder where there are some pretty good access tracks will see lots of bikes.</p> <p>For many though, "the long walk in" is an enjoyable part of the experience. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5674&page=6#post-61266 Thu, 15 Mar 2012 11:09:10 +0000 steveo 61266@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>When we were riding/walking through the Cairngorms last year, there were a number of people who rode from the car park along the fire/access roads (nearly 10 miles) to the start of the proper walking where the paths became very difficult to pass by bike. When they'd gone far enough they'd chain the bikes together and stick 'em in the heather a little off the path. </p> <p>None of these were "good" bikes but there were robust enough for the fire road and cheap enough to be left, plus 30 miles from the nearest habitation they were probably safe enough. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5674&page=6#post-61265 Thu, 15 Mar 2012 11:08:29 +0000 chdot 61265@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"<br /> The did look like they were having fun on the way down.<br /> "</p> <p>As long as they were obeying the <strike>Highway</strike> Country Code... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5674&page=6#post-61264 Thu, 15 Mar 2012 11:07:51 +0000 fimm 61264@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>Btw, Hello Fimm (waves), do you by any chance commute via Haymarket? I recollect being slightly surprised to notice a Brompton rider appear one night as a road warrior a little while ago! ;-) </em><br /> Yes, I commute via Haymarket. Black Bromton with front bag, currently long black coat with comedy hi-vis waistcoat if it is dark enough, or yellow and black Giant road bike, and I usually wear triathlon club coat (purple and black with white bits) and rucksack. If I have the road bike, I normally do the whole thing in both directions, but sometimes I only cycle to work and take the train back. </p> <p>Another Munro bagger here (150+ and counting) - yes, you can go up a hill in summer in most kinds of clothes, but you might not be as comfortable as if you had more suitable kit, and come winter you are taking much greater risks if you don't have the gear and the knowledge. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5674&page=6#post-61263 Thu, 15 Mar 2012 11:00:32 +0000 Baldcyclist 61263@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Last time I was up Ben Lomond there was a group of young folks carrying their bikes up the mountain on their shoulders!</p> <p>The did look like they were having fun on the way down. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5674&page=6#post-61251 Thu, 15 Mar 2012 10:19:09 +0000 Smudge 61251@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I was thinking more of using them to get near the bottom of some very large hills, but the principle is good ;-)</p> <p>I actually think that mtb's are <em>partially</em> responsible for some of the resurgence in cycling we are seeing (I am thinking of ten to twenty years ago here). Before MTB's there were kids bikes, "old" bikes and racers, kids bikes for kids, old bikes were untrendy and racers were uncomfortable and only used by "real" cyclists anyway (in the eyes of the average person)<br /> MTB's gave people a "cool" way to have a relatively sensible riding position and be seen on a bike, with tarmac tyres (and mudguards and a bell, and lights, and a rack...) a lot of them are actually pretty reasonable machines for negotiating Edinburghs <strike>cart tracks</strike>, erm "roads" Especially given they came equipped with low enough gears to let "average" people get up the hills!</p> <p>Ok we could argue all day about the "best" bike for roads round town, but a slick tyred hardtail mtb isn't actually <em>that</em> bad a choice. (Full suspension knobbly tyred BSO's however, are another story!) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5674&page=6#post-61240 Thu, 15 Mar 2012 09:05:07 +0000 Uberuce 61240@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>You mean use MTB's to go up a very large hill? What sorcery is this? Everyone knows MTBs are for wounding my engineering sensibilities by being grossly inefficient for road use, and for putting off new cyclists for the same reason. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5674&page=6#post-61237 Thu, 15 Mar 2012 08:36:33 +0000 Smudge 61237@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Train and MTB Munro bagging? (Having put no thought into the practicalities or otherwise this is just a random thought, apologies if it's nonsense!) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5674&page=6#post-61203 Wed, 14 Mar 2012 20:01:20 +0000 cb 61203@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"Got up to 24 I think then realised that we'd done everything within reasonable day-trip driving distance of Edinburgh and they began requiring overnight stops."</p> <p>A true Munro bagger would think little of driving three hours each way for a new hill. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5674&page=6#post-61188 Wed, 14 Mar 2012 17:56:48 +0000 Arellcat 61188@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I used to cycle everywhere in practicalchic - flowing hair, t-shirt, casual jacket, jeans. By the time I was doing 12-24 miles' commuting every day (and sometimes getting rained on, such that my jeans were still damp by going home time) I bought some fancy lycra shorts and tights and found I went faster and I didn't wear holes in my jeans all the time, and consequently spent much less buying new jeans and much more buying bicycle parts.</p> <p>I have also ridden my Brompton in full-on cyclist get-ups, so feel duty bound to go as fast as possible on those occasions. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5674&page=6#post-61179 Wed, 14 Mar 2012 17:31:55 +0000 kaputnik 61179@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>wearing full 1997 Lampre team kit </em></p> <p>Someone very briefly rode a Wilier Lampre Triestina team bike into my work. He must have moved offices though as he dissapeared not long after we had the inevitable "bit expensive for a commuting bike, no?" conversation.</p> <p>There's only a couple of people (myself included) who wear "cycling jerseys" to work. Fluo raincoats are de rigeur. I detest cycling in any form of raincoat, fluo or not. I did take my Paramo smock on my tour with me, but only ever needed to wear the thing on one occasion when it was pouring with rain and I had to put the tent up then walk to a pub for dinner. Never needed to cycle in the thing, which is good as it's much too heavyweight for such purposes, being a double layer of fabric.</p> <p>I briefly got into Munroing before getting more serious into cycling. Got up to 24 I think then realised that we'd done everything within reasonable day-trip driving distance of Edinburgh and they began requiring overnight stops. As I don't drive, I could never do my share of the driving so it wasn't fare on my grudging walking companion. Some time I'll do some more Munros, but I intend to cycle to them. Maybe then I'll get to wear the Paramo a bit more. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5674&page=5#post-61177 Wed, 14 Mar 2012 17:26:25 +0000 chdot 61177@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"just to promote awareness that the wearer's reasons for wearing what they wear might not be the reasons assumed by an observer"</p> <p>I think we should have a wisdom page. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5674&page=5#post-61175 Wed, 14 Mar 2012 17:13:06 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 61175@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>From irony to sarcasm...</p> <p>cb, yeah, it's pretty difficult to align cycling with other 'sports' really, which is why the differences in opinion spring up more. I guess you can jog to the shops.</p> <p>Seriously though Arne, I've been to Copenhagen and met Mikael, and loved, absolutely <em>loved</em> the 'normalness' of it all. But I think that changing things in the UK we need infrastructure and driver attitudes 'first', and then normal clothes. I don't think normal clothes will suddenly make the roads safer; but make the roads safer and people will wear normal clothes.</p> <p>Copenhagen is beautiful. Very like Edinburgh in a lot of respects (though flatter). With, throughout and around about, separated cyclepaths that cars and pedestrians stay out of. Edinburgh... Has cycle lanes that are <em>official</em> car parks at weekends.</p> <p>I actually have no problem riding on the road - at the same time I don't think we can have a rtue cycling culture without the infrastructure changes. That I think brings about more cyclists on bikes, rather than more normal clothes on the same amount of bikes. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5674&page=5#post-61174 Wed, 14 Mar 2012 17:10:21 +0000 Smudge 61174@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>"Is it an acceptable compromise to wear my usual rig-out of helmet, sunglasses and lycra, so long as I wear a large fur hat over the helmet, some fashion sunglasses over my prescription ones and a flowing, flowery dress over my lycra t-shirt and shorts so they can't be seen?</p> <p>That way I get to continue wearing what I like to wear and find comfortable and practical, but I amn't offending the easily offended or putting off the easily putable-off from getting on their bikes. "</em></p> <p>I trust you'll trial this look at the next PY so we can all help you assess its effectiveness? :-D</p> <p>Btw, Hello Fimm (waves), do you by any chance commute via Haymarket? I recollect being slightly surprised to notice a Brompton rider appear one night as a road warrior a little while ago! ;-) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5674&page=5#post-61173 Wed, 14 Mar 2012 17:10:19 +0000 Roibeard 61173@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@arne - I think you'll be a bit confused, and not very sartorially elegant, if you attempt to fit in with the CCE dress code.</p> <p>You'll require a Schrödinger helmet, a long flowing summer dress/miniskirt/kilt, probably made out of cotton/tweed/Lycra, in cerise/flo yellow/honey oat and your bike should be fixie/folder/racer/recumbent/tandem also colour coordinated with your outfit.</p> <p>As for fitting in with the posting ethos, I think you're already there...</p> <p>:-0</p> <p>Robert </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5674&page=5#post-61172 Wed, 14 Mar 2012 17:04:02 +0000 arne_saknussen 61172@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Truth: the prevailing view has, er, prevailed. I want to fit in. Just tell me where I can buy one of these "sartorial paradigms" and I'll get it. Do EBC stock them? Plenty of scotchlite I hope. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5674&page=5#post-61171 Wed, 14 Mar 2012 17:02:33 +0000 cb 61171@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Because I am more 'into' hill walking than cycling I have often wondered about comparisons with cycling around having the right gear (technical and safety) and being seen to have the right gear.</p> <p>But the comparison doesn't really work; no one is really trying to promote hill walking in the way that cycling is being promoted (as a form of transport).</p> <p>As has been commented on many times before, cycling seems to be a unique sport in that you can cycle to the shows but you can't &lt;any-other-sport&gt; to the shops. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5674&page=5#post-61170 Wed, 14 Mar 2012 17:01:05 +0000 Dave 61170@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I do like to derogate at people. Why not? I could be sitting behind them in the jam in the motor, instead I'm flying past them, *and* I have a nicer motor than I would have for a daily grind... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5674&page=5#post-61168 Wed, 14 Mar 2012 16:55:36 +0000 chdot 61168@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"give him a cheery wave, for he is a converted true believer"</p> <p>Truce, truth or irony?</p> <p>(It doesn't matter)</p> <p>Re 'smug'. </p> <p>Had a conversation last night about whether it was always derogatory. </p> <p>No firm conclusion. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5674&page=5#post-61167 Wed, 14 Mar 2012 16:55:17 +0000 wingpig 61167@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>This irony lark is jolly fun, isn't it?<br /> I didn't get the impression that anyone was trying to convert anyone to any particular sartorial paradigm, just to promote awareness that the wearer's reasons for wearing what they wear might not be the reasons assumed by an observer. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5674&page=5#post-61166 Wed, 14 Mar 2012 16:52:05 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 61166@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>S'alright - classic CCE thread drift, we're onto hillwalking... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5674&page=5#post-61165 Wed, 14 Mar 2012 16:50:09 +0000 chdot 61165@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I go away for an afternoon of 'road safety' meetings and things take off... </p>