http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: Self-Congratulatory and Smug en Thu, 02 Jul 2026 03:23:55 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5685&page=2#post-61185 Wed, 14 Mar 2012 17:48:07 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 61185@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Yeah, I've just seen that.</p> <p>Nice to see Duncan's insensitive comment was removed. Find it odd - I was told to 'toughen up' after thinking it insensitive that he was suggesting the two recently killed cyclists had themselves to blame for being 'splattered'. Then he mentioned he'd lost two 'close' friends on the roads, one his own fault, the other not, and he wouldn't be bothered if someone suggested they were solely to blame.</p> <p>Bit heartless no? Personally I'd be upset about someone defaming two of my deceased dead friends. And if having compassion means you should 'toughen up' then I'll remain compassionate thank you very much. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5685&page=2#post-61184 Wed, 14 Mar 2012 17:47:33 +0000 recombodna 61184@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>That's great. I don't want to have to put you on the virtual naughty step. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5685&page=2#post-61183 Wed, 14 Mar 2012 17:45:07 +0000 Min 61183@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I saw that comment, was it not directed at Smudge? The commenter even slightly commended Anth for not joining in whatever-it-was. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5685&page=2#post-61182 Wed, 14 Mar 2012 17:40:11 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 61182@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Absolutely, I shall completely modify my behaviour from now on...</p> <p>Guess it takes one to know one. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5685&page=2#post-61181 Wed, 14 Mar 2012 17:39:07 +0000 recombodna 61181@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Post seems to have been removed by the moderator but deffo called you an internet bully n no uncertain terms.... so that's you told eh? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5685&page=2#post-61155 Wed, 14 Mar 2012 16:22:54 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 61155@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Really?!?!?! Whereabouts??? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5685#post-61145 Wed, 14 Mar 2012 16:08:37 +0000 recombodna 61145@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"Yep. Having read me on here I'm now apparently bigoted and immature..."</p> <p>You're also an internet bully.... allegedly ;-) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5685#post-61104 Wed, 14 Mar 2012 14:41:26 +0000 Min 61104@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Have you tried it Nelly? An "I'm a bike riding Pom T-shirt perhaps? ;-)</p> <p>"*watches his theory go on fire then sink*"</p> <p>Haha. It sounded good but for some reason it doesn't work, as far as I am aware. Have never cycled in either but tales from down under seem to suggest drivers are particularly psychotic. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5685#post-61091 Wed, 14 Mar 2012 14:11:45 +0000 Nelly 61091@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Min</p> <p>"And yet I believe the Aussies and Kiwis have an even more hysterical hatred of cyclists than us Pommies."</p> <p>They must almost implode when faced with a Pom Cyclist then ;-) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5685#post-61089 Wed, 14 Mar 2012 14:10:29 +0000 crowriver 61089@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Maybe I wasn't brief enough back there. I think that motorists resent cyclists because:</p> <p>- cyclists are 'in the way' which is bad manners<br /> - cyclists are not driving motor vehicles, therefore different</p> <p>That's basically it in a nutshell.</p> <p>All the rest, the stereotyping, etc. is just there to justify the resentment that is <em>already there</em>.</p> <p>If you wanted to sum up the attitude, it would be something like:</p> <p>"You are not one of us! Get out of the way!" </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5685#post-61088 Wed, 14 Mar 2012 13:57:50 +0000 Uberuce 61088@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>*watches his theory go on fire then sink*</p> <p>Ah well. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5685#post-61084 Wed, 14 Mar 2012 13:43:18 +0000 Min 61084@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>And yet I believe the Aussies and Kiwis have an even more hysterical hatred of cyclists than us Pommies. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5685#post-61076 Wed, 14 Mar 2012 12:55:46 +0000 steveo 61076@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Thats true, Christchurch (NZ) has the same (nominal) population as Edinburgh (UK) howerver its about 50% bigger and has about half the population density. 150 sq miles to 100 sq miles.</p> <p>Though the traffic at peak times is still a bloody nightmare, never tried to cycle in it though. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5685#post-61070 Wed, 14 Mar 2012 12:39:04 +0000 Uberuce 61070@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The only example I can think of would be Australia - the cities and towns there are heyoooge for the population, if my sketchy geography is correct. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5685#post-61069 Wed, 14 Mar 2012 12:38:43 +0000 crowriver 61069@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@Instography, it may be worth reading that report. The PDF is a free download but you must register first.</p> <p>In summary, the report concludes that drivers:<br /> 1. Hardly ever consider cyclists, being more concerned about other motor vehicles.<br /> 2. When they do consider cyclists, tend to have a low opinion of them and see cyclists as unpredictable (this is true even when the driver is also a cyclist).<br /> 3. Tend to overestimate their own competence and consideration for others, and overlook transgressions by other drivers due to their 'in group' status.<br /> 4. Tend to attribute poor or incompetent behaviour by some cyclists as being a characteristic of all cyclists due to their 'out group' status.<br /> 5. Experience conflict between the way they ideally ought to behave towards cyclists (give enough space, wait until safe to pass, etc.) and the obligations they feel towards other drivers not to hold them up, leading to the 'average' driver passing when it is not safe.<br /> 5. Tend to feel resentment that cyclists' perceived unpredictable behaviour forces them to drive more slowly and cautiously. They see this as due to the cyclists' discourtesy (regardless of the actual behaviour of the cyclist in question).</p> <p>There's more, but I recommend reading the report for the detail. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5685#post-61068 Wed, 14 Mar 2012 12:38:38 +0000 wingpig 61068@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Surely the increasing comfort of cars (insulation from exterior noise, heated seats, cooling air-wafters, hand-crafted rev counter dials etc) applies whether they're being propelled at their design maxima or shuffling slowly towards a distant junction? Do people who buy cars based on the amount of internal frippery on offer do so with a nod towards it making their time spent in jams more tolerable?</p> <p>Whoosh-factor and denial thereof undoubtedly having some effect somewhere, hence the 'need' to achieve it wherever possible, even if it's just through a momentary acceleration round a cyclist to reach a queue half a second earlier.</p> <p>I've not driven in many offical New Towns, which I presume try to do things like have bypasses pre-built into them. East Kilbride seems to consist entirely of roundabouts. The bits of Glenrothes I can remember seemed to be all roundabout with sculptures on. I've not seen much of Livingston apart from some of the snowflaked residential warrens and the odd bit of long straight road. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5685#post-61067 Wed, 14 Mar 2012 12:25:06 +0000 Min 61067@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"I wonder if motorists in cities where size and layout mean they really are faster and more convenient get so grumpy."</p> <p>I don't know if such a city exists. Any that revolve entirely around car use just become so congested that they are no longer convenient. Maybe they were for the short time between the planners attempted enforcement of car use and people taking the bait and driving everywhere. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5685#post-61066 Wed, 14 Mar 2012 12:21:21 +0000 Uberuce 61066@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I ponder: perhaps it's a disappointment thing? </p> <p>Motorists are sold the idea of speed and convenience justifying the expense and legal hoop-jumping of a car, so when they see a mode of transport which is faster, handier, and less restricted, they've got the option of admitting they got it wrong and getting a bike, or taking a huff at the people who got it right. </p> <p>Edinburgh's roadplan and is such a historical accident that it magnifies this effect, as does the small size of the place - I wonder if motorists in cities where size and layout mean they really are faster and more convenient get so grumpy. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5685#post-61051 Wed, 14 Mar 2012 11:45:00 +0000 crowriver 61051@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>I don't think that could explain the vitriol and hatred though. </em></p> <p>Why not? If you believe another person or group of people is <em>inferior</em> in some way, it's quite common behaviour to be abusive towards that individual, or group. That behaviour doesn't magically end when we leave the school playground, it just takes different forms.</p> <p><em>I wonder if it's just a combination of jealousy and fear of losing group status ("I don't want to cycle. What if everybody cycles and I become abnormal")</em></p> <p>That last fear is a long way off! No, I think it is just fear of <em>difference</em>, and the <em>public display</em> of lifestyles, attitudes and choices which are diametrically opposed to the person beholding them. If a cyclist shoves their 'difference' in the face of an average driver (eg. by 'getting in the way') the response is anger <em>and</em> justification of that anger through pointing to the difference and out group status of the transgressor ('bloody cyclists'). </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5685#post-61050 Wed, 14 Mar 2012 11:44:58 +0000 Instography 61050@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>If it's drivers' perceptions of cyclists, <a href="http://www.trl.co.uk/online_store/reports_publications/trl_reports/cat_road_user_safety/report_drivers_perceptions_of_cyclists.htm">this</a> might be of interest. It's 10 years old now but I doubt much has changed. Can't say it's good or bad since I haven't read it but Jimmy Thomson at Strathclyde's a sensible chap. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5685#post-61046 Wed, 14 Mar 2012 11:36:12 +0000 Dave 61046@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>"No, I think there really are very few drivers who think like that, that are envious of cyclists. Most profess to feel sorry for us, to look down on us, to presume that we are poor, deranged, aliens or at best eccentric. "</em></p> <p>I don't think that could explain the vitriol and hatred though. Police indifference, laughable sentences from magistrates, stupid infrastructure - that sort of thing is the product of looking down on cyclists as an underclass. </p> <p>But there are lots of groups of people I pity and look down on (to avoid possible offence, I won't be specific) but I don't *hate* them, or try to harm them. I wonder if it's just a combination of jealousy and fear of losing group status ("I don't want to cycle. What if everybody cycles and I become abnormal") </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5685#post-61044 Wed, 14 Mar 2012 11:19:26 +0000 crowriver 61044@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>No, I think there really are very few drivers who think like that, that are <em>envious</em> of cyclists. Most profess to <em>feel sorry</em> for us, to <em>look down</em> on us, to presume that we are poor, deranged, aliens or at best eccentric. </p> <p>Either that, or the other stereotype is we're being <em>deliberately obtuse</em> or pretentious, you know, like those tree-hugging, tofu-knitting, green hippies. Living on mummy and daddy's trust fund and hailing from Steiner school. We should all be living in the Stockbridge colonies and running vegan wholefood cafes.</p> <p>Of course, these attempts to pigeonhole cyclists may indeed be a symptom of cognitive dissonance, and a simmering <em>subconscious</em> resentment. This is rarely expressed openly as <em>jealousy</em>, as this would mean <em>losing face</em>. Most people would not admit that they <em>might be wrong</em>, especially about personal lifestyle choices. Instead, a common response is to scoff, dismiss, point and stare, laugh, etc. So much easier than questioning one's own belief system, and that of one's friends, neighbours, colleagues... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5685#post-61036 Wed, 14 Mar 2012 10:46:48 +0000 Dave 61036@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I was reading the other day about how the easy availability of credit might be reversing the pecking order. </p> <p>Since anyone can own a nice car, *not* owning one is making a serious statement (which, I suspect in large part, is one of the drivers of cyclist hatred).</p> <p>It's daft anyway. Commuting to my last job by bike saved me so much in fuel and maintenance on the car we did own that I could have had a brand new leased Audi for free. (Don't worry - I spent the money helping to downpay the mortgage instead).</p> <p>That realisation is bound to cause serious resentment as it percolates through society. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5685#post-61035 Wed, 14 Mar 2012 10:44:46 +0000 wingpig 61035@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>They evidently don't have hinges (or at least any need to ever describe them) in Polish, unless I mis-typed. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5685#post-61021 Wed, 14 Mar 2012 10:30:22 +0000 gembo 61021@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@wingpig - is that a polish quote about Sean Connery? (aka Big Tamski) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5685#post-61003 Wed, 14 Mar 2012 09:37:32 +0000 Instography 61003@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Cars are easy. Sign a form and you can have any car you like. There's nothing to feel smug about. Bikes take work. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5685#post-61001 Wed, 14 Mar 2012 09:25:28 +0000 chdot 61001@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"what can you be smug about?"</p> <p>I think you're supposed to be smug about having a better car than your neighbour/colleague and the fact that you can get to the next traffic jam faster than that <em>poor</em> person on a bicycle. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5685#post-61000 Wed, 14 Mar 2012 09:23:27 +0000 Roibeard 61000@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@wingpig - "Heavens, there are really no-wing people out there."</p> <p>I suspect Google may have failed me here...</p> <p>However Google thinks the commentator is called "For our freedom and yours".</p> <p>Robert </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5685#post-60997 Wed, 14 Mar 2012 09:02:40 +0000 Instography 60997@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Is there something wrong with being self-congratulatory and smug now?</p> <p>If you can't be legitimately self-congratulatory and smug about the miles you've ridden, the weight lost, the money saved and the extra life years gained what can you be smug about? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=5685#post-60982 Wed, 14 Mar 2012 00:18:42 +0000 wingpig 60982@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Niebiosa, tam są naprawdę nie-skrzydłowe ludzie tam. </p>