http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: Spokes hustings / council voting en Fri, 22 May 2026 04:54:28 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6071&page=2#post-67189 Thu, 26 Apr 2012 19:07:35 +0000 SRD 67189@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>and make sure you check out the POP 'political esponses section to see what your councillors and their parties have said: <a href="http://pedalonparliament.org/political-responses/" rel="nofollow">http://pedalonparliament.org/political-responses/</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6071&page=2#post-67186 Thu, 26 Apr 2012 19:02:42 +0000 crowriver 67186@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>It was pointed out to me recently that people who only put one or two preferences sometimes do not have their vote used fully. </p> <p>This can either be because the one candidate wins with more votes than the threshold needed to become a councillor or when the candidate comes out bottom. In either case the votes are not reallocated because there are no choices on your ballot paper left to allocate them to.</p> <p>Parties who ask voters to only vote one or two are contributing to a situation where Councillors are then elected with less than the threshold number of votes.</p> <p>So rank the other candidates (after the Green party candidate, naturally) until you can no longer stomach ranking them.</p> <p>Personally I'm going to look at my list of candidates again, to do a wee run through. Just to make sure I get it right on the day. One week to go! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6071&page=2#post-65017 Thu, 12 Apr 2012 11:05:42 +0000 Roibeard 65017@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@crowriver <em>Though the beauty of the electoral system is that you can vote for several candidates, in order of preference.</em></p> <p>Of the order of least dislike/distaste...</p> <p>;-)</p> <p>Robert </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6071&page=2#post-64983 Thu, 12 Apr 2012 09:14:45 +0000 chdot 64983@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@cc useful link. </p> <p>"<br /> If you invest a lot of money in more nuclear power plants, you can’t take any of that and give to a family in a failed state, like Somalia, to help fix there power shortages. But if you rather invest it in cheap solar power, like Nanosolar or First Solar, you can even sell a Somalian a power plant, at the family level, without a major risk to them, their surrounding or the environment, and it is simple enough for even my old grand mother to operate.</p> <p>The majority of the increased power need in the world is in the countries which are not well developed and it would be foolish to believe that we could help them by building and operating a nuclear power plant. In fact you can’t run an operate a nuclear power plant unless you have sophisticated infrastructure, in the shape of a functional government, national administration, education and technology, so it is no real help for the developing world.</p> <p>"</p> <p>Which reinforces the view that 'energy obsession' in 'the west' is perhaps a bit selfish.</p> <p>"<br /> On the other hand, things like energy efficiency, and some of the cheaper renewables are a factor of six better. So for every dollar you spend on nuclear, you could have saved five or six times as much carbon with efficiency, or wind farms,” </p> <p>"</p> <p>Pretty much covers the political/technocrat obsession with 'big solutions'. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6071&page=2#post-64977 Thu, 12 Apr 2012 08:57:39 +0000 chdot 64977@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Conclusion of LONG post from <a href="http://lallandspeatworrier.blogspot.co.uk/2012/03/rank-local-election-wonkery-glasgow.html">wfb's link</a> -</p> <p>"<br /> One major change which is likely to have an impact on that is a new phenomenon in Scottish politics: multiple candidates from the same party, standing in multi-member council constituencies. The peril, potentially, is that your vote is split between your candidates, and so neither wins, rather than returning two candidates of the same tribe, as intended. In Glasgow in May, the SNP will be running two candidates in twenty of the twenty one council wards, and as many as three in Govan.  Similarly, Labour is running between one and three candidates in the various wards across the city.</p> <p>Unlike the closed lists used for our Holyrood elections, voters in Glasgow will be able to single our preferred candidates in their ward rather than simply selecting a party. The Labour voter, for example, who rates one candidate but despises another will be able to direct their electoral support accordingly.  No doubt the headline council results and overall balance of power will receive the greatest attention in the press, but it will be fascinating to see just how far the parties' new multi-member strategies will work out - or precipitate unmitigated electoral disaster - in Glasgow.</p> <p>" </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6071&page=2#post-64975 Thu, 12 Apr 2012 08:47:14 +0000 cc 64975@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>On the subject of nuclear power, which people were earlier, people might find this interesting, I did: <a href="https://bjelkeman.wordpress.com/2011/03/19/why-nuclear-power-does-not-make-any-sense/">Why more nuclear power does not make any sense.</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6071&page=2#post-64971 Thu, 12 Apr 2012 08:24:48 +0000 chdot 64971@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Not sure if Labour is any worse in 'jobs for the boys/family' than other parties. Galloway/Bradford shows it's not just Glasgow!</p> <p>The SNP has had it's clans (appropriate word intended) and this today - <a href="http://www.scotsman.com/the-scotsman/politics/snp-rivals-rigged-ballot-with-influx-of-family-and-friends-says-councillor-1-2229087" rel="nofollow">http://www.scotsman.com/the-scotsman/politics/snp-rivals-rigged-ballot-with-influx-of-family-and-friends-says-councillor-1-2229087</a></p> <p>The Tories, of course, like the heriditary process. </p> <p>The current council voting system has a lot to do with the Electoral Reform activities of Edinburgh's own Andrew Burns (from Aidrie of course). </p> <p>Consequently he is not entirely popular with the 'weigh the vote' end of his own party - <a href="https://twitter.com/georgefoulkes/status/189639716029726721">E.G.</a>! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6071&page=2#post-64968 Thu, 12 Apr 2012 07:07:43 +0000 wee folding bike 64968@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>One of the telling things in in Glasgow is that Labour have not put up three candidates.</p> <p>In at least one area, Langside, they have one, a Mr Archie Graham. This pretty much guarantees that he will be elected but also limits their possible success to one councillor. </p> <p>Some deselected former Labour councillors have formed a group called Glasgow First which clouds issues a bit. They vote with the Labour group and hence are Labour in all but name. It remains to be seen what effect they have at the election.</p> <p>More than you would ever want to know about the voting system available from the Peat Worrier:</p> <p><a href="http://lallandspeatworrier.blogspot.co.uk/2012/03/rank-local-election-wonkery-glasgow.html" rel="nofollow">http://lallandspeatworrier.blogspot.co.uk/2012/03/rank-local-election-wonkery-glasgow.html</a></p> <p>In Airdrie there are some wards where there are three SNP candidates and only two Labour. North Lanarkshire is, I think, the last Labour controlled council in the country unless Mid Lothian still has Labour control. It really used to be a place there the didn't need to count the Labour vote, they could just weigh it. The Westminster seat hasn't changed hands since the war. If Labour are worried in Glasgow then we could be in for interesting times. I'm also wondering what the implications could be for Miss Lamont although I see nobody on the benches, outwith Malcolm Chisholm, who has the capacity to lead the party and he didn't stand at the last opportunity so she may be safe for now. It might not be good for them to keep her but ditching her wouldn't be smart either.</p> <p>Of course, going back to Mr Graham's secure selection in Langside, this may have nothing to do with his wife being a well known mother by the name of Johann Lamont… </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6071&page=2#post-64965 Thu, 12 Apr 2012 00:50:59 +0000 slowcoach 64965@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><blockquote><em>A lot of people will put 1-3 or 1-4 against the people they would most like to see elected - most Edinburgh wards have 3 seats, some have 4.</p> <p>Some people will favour their chosen party over all others in (the few) wards where their party has 2 candidates. Others will give their 2nd vote to another party.</em></blockquote></p> <p>You only have one vote, but you list the candidates you want to get it in order of preference, and then it transfers if your early preference has more than enough to get elected or hasn't enough to get elected. (Single Transferable Vote).</p> <p>A party could win 3 out of 4 seats if it had 60% of the vote. The detailed results from the first STV election show some voting patterns that might seem strange eg votes transferring from one candidate for a party to another party rather than another candidate of the same party. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6071&page=2#post-64962 Wed, 11 Apr 2012 23:52:59 +0000 chdot 64962@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Thanks</p> <p>Surprised that <em>any</em> party would expect to be able to get three seats in any ward. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6071&page=2#post-64961 Wed, 11 Apr 2012 23:49:22 +0000 slowcoach 64961@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>There are several seats in Aberdeen, Aberdeenshire, and Glasgow (maybe others too), where one party has 3 candidates in 4 Councillor wards (4 councillor wards seem more common in these areas). </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6071&page=2#post-64960 Wed, 11 Apr 2012 23:29:42 +0000 chdot 64960@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"<br /> Last night the SNP's Election Broadcast suggest that you put 1, 2 and 3 against their candidates so that they could have the slogan "SNP 123".</p> <p>There can't be many (any?) seats with 3 candidates in one party.</p> <p>"</p> <p>Tonight Lab doing same - "123 for Labour".</p> <p><em>Are</em> there any wards with 3 candidates from the same party?</p> <p>Will most people vote for all the candidates in 'their' party? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6071&page=2#post-64959 Wed, 11 Apr 2012 23:12:41 +0000 chdot 64959@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"Brewer's parting shot about renewables needing subsidy was disingenuous, as it did not take account of the huge decommissioning costs of nuclear"</p> <p>Not really as simple as that. Dealing with old nuclear is expensive - and there is no real evidence that new nuclear will be 'cost effect', <em>but</em> that's not an excuse for justifying permanent subsidies for renewables (or anything else) if that is the only thing that makes them 'economic'.</p> <p>Energy production is a bit like road building. Someone says 'we'll need more in the future', so it 'has' to be provided for.</p> <p>There's an air pollution problem so build a tram.</p> <p>Oil is running out so replace petrol cars with electric ones.</p> <p>Etc. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6071&page=2#post-64955 Wed, 11 Apr 2012 22:42:19 +0000 crowriver 64955@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>I think Gordon Brewer was looking for a Green policy on thorium reactors but Mr Harvie didn't seem to catch it.</em></p> <p>Just watched it on iPlayer. I wouldn't say he was caught out. He was rightly sceptical about so-called 'clean' nuclear. Brewer's parting shot about renewables needing subsidy was disingenuous, as it did not take account of the huge decommissioning costs of nuclear. Just look at Dounreay to see just how expensive, how long it takes and how problematic the process is. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6071&page=2#post-64946 Wed, 11 Apr 2012 22:33:14 +0000 Smudge 64946@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><strong>Correction to my previous factually incorrect statement(!)</strong><br /> The Calman commission *were* convinced that devolution of power to legislate over airguns may be passed to the Scottish Government, my confusion was over the SNP demands for greater (not just air gun) weapons legislation control.</p> <p>(Oh and their repeated comments about Scotlands particular air weapon "problem" (according to the home office stats, fewer incidents up here and a year on year fall in the number of incidents over the last ten years, iirc a fall of 75% over the last two recorded years, if anyone cares I can try to dig out the stats... but not tonight!)) rant off.... :-o</p> <p>Apologies chaps es chapesses, memory clearly failing me tonight :-o </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6071&page=2#post-64943 Wed, 11 Apr 2012 22:20:59 +0000 Smudge 64943@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"Consider the transport benefits of Yogic Flying"</p> <p>Oh Good Lor' no! All these people who can't afford aircraft cluttering up the skyways holding everyone up and endangering themselves, I bet most of them wouldn't even wear hi-vi clothing!</p> <p>;-) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6071&page=2#post-64942 Wed, 11 Apr 2012 22:16:44 +0000 chdot 64942@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Family snapshot (from the on-topic event)</p> <p><a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/chdot/7028033961/"><img src="http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7188/7028033961_58762ccae5.jpg"></a></p> <p>You know you want to click... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6071#post-64940 Wed, 11 Apr 2012 22:09:54 +0000 wee folding bike 64940@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I should have been more explicit. For at least the last 45 years we have always been 25 years from a fusion reactor. We still are.</p> <p>We were doing some carbon research at Longannet but Chris Hune pulled the rug out.</p> <p>In the '50s it was never about making electricity. It was about making bombs. There is even a persistent rumour that one UK power station actually used more electricity than it produced. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6071#post-64939 Wed, 11 Apr 2012 22:05:28 +0000 chdot 64939@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"Not to worry, clean fusion reactors for all in 25 years"</p> <p>No idea if this is technically possible - bit like carbon capture really - or if there is enough research/development/money to make it even vaguely a/the future. </p> <p>I still remember when 'electricity is going to be so cheap it won't be worth putting light switches into new office blocks'. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6071#post-64937 Wed, 11 Apr 2012 21:51:40 +0000 crowriver 64937@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>How about Natural Law?</em></p> <p>It's worth remembering that it is not so long ago that the SNP were commonly dismissed as fringe nutters and an irrelevance (obviously not by SNP supporters). That perception has certainly changed.</p> <p>Scottish Anti-Cuts Alliance are a possible alternative if somehow the Greens do not seem like a proposition for whatever reason (including no candidate in your ward, eg. quite a few outwith Edinburgh). Though the beauty of the electoral system is that you can vote for several candidates, in order of preference. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6071#post-64935 Wed, 11 Apr 2012 21:49:22 +0000 wee folding bike 64935@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Sometimes Newsnight Scotland is hard to find but this is yesterday's:</p> <p><a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01g7sx0/Newsnight_Scotland_10_04_2012/" rel="nofollow">http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01g7sx0/Newsnight_Scotland_10_04_2012/</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6071#post-64934 Wed, 11 Apr 2012 21:45:23 +0000 wee folding bike 64934@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I think Gordon Brewer was looking for a Green policy on thorium reactors but Mr Harvie didn't seem to catch it.</p> <p>Not to worry, clean fusion reactors for all in 25 years. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6071#post-64932 Wed, 11 Apr 2012 21:43:29 +0000 crowriver 64932@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>Patrick Harvie was caught out by Newsnight Scotland last night on the nuclear power issue.</em></p> <p>Really? How so? (Didn't see it.)</p> <p>Anyway, I thought these were local council elections, not parliamentary. Different issues, or <u>should be</u>. I suppose it suits the SNP to play national issues, that's what got them into Holyrood. Local politics <em>should</em> be a slightly separate matter; whether it will be is something we'll have to wait and see. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6071#post-64931 Wed, 11 Apr 2012 21:41:56 +0000 wee folding bike 64931@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>BBC says Calman was in favour of the air gun thing:</p> <p><a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8372897.stm" rel="nofollow">http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8372897.stm</a></p> <p>It does quote Jim Murphy so it could all be made up.</p> <p>I don't think devolution is one of the SNP aims, no, it may be a way point for what they want though.</p> <p>George Harrison was in favour of Natural Law and he put up the cash for Life of Brian so he must have known a thing or two. Consider the transport benefits of Yogic Flying. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6071#post-64930 Wed, 11 Apr 2012 21:41:37 +0000 chdot 64930@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"Are you telling me the SNP don't want devolution?"</p> <p>I think you <em>know</em> they want Independence...!!! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6071#post-64929 Wed, 11 Apr 2012 21:40:20 +0000 chdot 64929@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"Patrick Harvie was caught out by Newsnight Scotland last night on the nuclear power issue"</p> <p>Yeah that was an interesting exchange.</p> <p>I *think* he said that if a new form of nuclear was developed that was 'safe' and 'sustainable', greens would have to consider it.</p> <p>But he didn't really sound like he thought there was any possibility.</p> <p>There are quite a few people (like George Monbiot) who (now) seem to believe that nuclear is 'necessary' as a bridge between now and a 'low carbon future'.</p> <p>Of course local energy generation, conservation, even changes in lifestyle are not as attractive to politicians (and most voters) as 'big solutions'.</p> <p>So new Forth bridge rather than encouraging much 'Active Travel'.</p> <p>(Or even discouraging travel - but that's a whole different...) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6071#post-64919 Wed, 11 Apr 2012 21:15:52 +0000 Smudge 64919@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The Calman report advised against it (airgun licensing), however last I checked SNP policy is to bring it in, but that is off topic and a bit of a hobby horse so I should probably treat it like discussing h****ts ;-)(!)<br /> Are you telling me the SNP don't want devolution? Not what the big bloke said last time I saw him...?</p> <p>Natural Law? No comment!! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6071#post-64914 Wed, 11 Apr 2012 21:08:21 +0000 wee folding bike 64914@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I think the air gun licensing is part of the Calman commission proposal which was set up by Wendy Alexander and had no SNP members.</p> <p>Home rule is a LibDem proposal.</p> <p>Patrick Harvie was caught out by Newsnight Scotland last night on the nuclear power issue.</p> <p>How about Natural Law? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6071#post-64904 Wed, 11 Apr 2012 20:55:18 +0000 Smudge 64904@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Don't fancy the chances of the SNP doing anything, they're too busy trying to get the right to raise more taxes then blow them all on licensing airguns (despite all the evidence to show that it would be a huge waste of time and money!)<br /> Still idly curious to know what their scapegoat will be if they get home rule and can't blame Westminster for everything...</p> <p>Labour/Conservatives, more of the same, "career politicians" saying as little as possible and doing less as long as it keeps them in a (very well paid) job.</p> <p>Greens, hmmm dunno, still thinking :-/</p> <p>I will vote, it would be criminal not to given what that right cost our predecessors to gain, but sometimes I look at the options and really wonder, too many politicians and far too few leaders! :-( </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6071#post-64895 Wed, 11 Apr 2012 20:23:42 +0000 wee folding bike 64895@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Promise of a cycle hire scheme in Glasgow:</p> <p><a href="http://www.glasgowsnp.org/Council/SNP_Glasgow_City_Council_Group/SNP_commit_to_pilot_of_cycle_rental_scheme__/" rel="nofollow">http://www.glasgowsnp.org/Council/SNP_Glasgow_City_Council_Group/SNP_commit_to_pilot_of_cycle_rental_scheme__/</a></p> <p>The white ones did get used last year and only a few ended up in the Kelvin. </p> <p>Having seen the cycle routes the current administration has put in I'd rather they didn't bother with any more. </p>