http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: Pedal on Parliament to be discussed... in Parliament en Wed, 08 Apr 2026 22:03:53 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6180&page=4#post-66583 Sun, 22 Apr 2012 19:29:47 +0000 cb 66583@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="http://www.yr.no/place/United_Kingdom/Scotland/Edinburgh/long.html">Long range forecast not quite as good as it was two days ago.</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6180&page=4#post-66531 Sun, 22 Apr 2012 07:11:01 +0000 Dave 66531@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>I was just wondering what Dave meant by monetising safety. If the value has collapsed in real terms then they don't seem to have been able to. I suspect competitive pressures have meant that they have to keep adding features while pushing prices down. </em></p> <p>It depends on your start and end point - US average car prices in 2005 were broadly the same as in 1985 in inflation-adjusted dollars (although it's true that cars are becoming increasingly less expensive, presumbly because competition drives improvements in manufacturing process).</p> <p>Still, I'm not sure how even a collapse in prices would refute the point. For example, PC manufacturers monetised marginal differences in chip speeds (often by crippling fast chips to artificially create pricing strata), upselling people on extra MHz even though you could type emails just as well on any of them. The price of PCs has fallen through the floor since I bought my first one, but that doesn't mean that PCs aren't sold on extra MHz (or equivalents) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6180&page=4#post-66412 Fri, 20 Apr 2012 23:33:14 +0000 wee folding bike 66412@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I find cars last much better these days. I've got two in the drive. One is 15 years old with 180K miles and the other is 11 years old with 140K miles. They both start first time and have never broken down in a way which stopped them getting home under their own steam. This isn't how I remember cars when I was in primary school.</p> <p>OTOH I've got a 61 yr old bike frame and it works fine too. Rims might be an issue but last time I asked they could still be found. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6180&page=4#post-66392 Fri, 20 Apr 2012 21:24:30 +0000 Instography 66392@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Yeah, sure. I was just wondering what Dave meant by monetising safety. If the value has collapsed in real terms then they don't seem to have been able to. I suspect competitive pressures have meant that they have to keep adding features while pushing prices down. A bit like PC manufacturers have had to keep upping the spec of their machines as the prices fall. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6180&page=4#post-66380 Fri, 20 Apr 2012 20:02:42 +0000 crowriver 66380@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@Instography, when most folk bought a car in the 1960s they expected it to last. The idea was to keep your vehicle running as long as possible. At some point, I think possibly in the 1980s but probably the 1990s, lots of people started to believe they had to upgrade their vehicle to a new model every few years, sometimes every year. Certainly the selling points were about newer cars being safer, more fuel efficient, more comfortable, more features, etc. etc.</p> <p>Dunno if many drivers still think that way. The status value of having a new car doesn't appear to have gone away... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6180&page=4#post-66372 Fri, 20 Apr 2012 18:38:59 +0000 Instography 66372@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Dave, when you say the car industry has been able to monetise safety, do you mean that they have been able to increase the price of cars by making them safer? I don't think that's the case. In 1968, when it was launched, the new Ford Escort cost £2,919. Today, the equivalent, an entry level Ford Focus, which is infinitely better equipped for safety, has a list price of £12,495 (of course the forecourt price will only be about £10k). For comparison, the value of that 1968 Escort would be £41,500. So in real terms, cars are much cheaper, in spite of the improvements in safety. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6180&page=4#post-66370 Fri, 20 Apr 2012 17:13:50 +0000 Arellcat 66370@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Perhaps the warm reception of PoP is being hidden by a cold front.</p> <p>Besides, <a href="http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=1587#post-15284">according to Kaputnik</a>, "the coldest temperature ever recorded in the UK was between my toes at 820AM". </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6180&page=4#post-66367 Fri, 20 Apr 2012 16:57:03 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 66367@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>If this thread is heading towards temperature puns I have absolutely zero interest in it. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6180&page=4#post-66366 Fri, 20 Apr 2012 16:55:52 +0000 steveo 66366@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Youch! :D </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6180&page=4#post-66364 Fri, 20 Apr 2012 16:41:59 +0000 wee folding bike 66364@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>It certainly got a cold reception. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6180&page=4#post-66362 Fri, 20 Apr 2012 16:25:14 +0000 steveo 66362@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Yeah "joke" may have fallen flat ;) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6180&page=4#post-66361 Fri, 20 Apr 2012 16:11:35 +0000 chdot 66361@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Ah a joke...</p> <p>I'm preoccupied with weather for next week (not just Sat). </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6180&page=4#post-66360 Fri, 20 Apr 2012 16:10:45 +0000 cc 66360@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>We could wear birthday suits... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6180&page=4#post-66359 Fri, 20 Apr 2012 16:06:12 +0000 kaputnik 66359@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Yes I think I would be dissapointed if it was below 4 figures. </p> <p>I too like the idea of equating the turnout into how many miles of cars would it take for the same protest. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6180&page=4#post-66358 Fri, 20 Apr 2012 16:01:37 +0000 SRD 66358@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@excitableboy I got it. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6180&page=4#post-66357 Fri, 20 Apr 2012 15:58:50 +0000 ExcitableBoy 66357@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I took "bit cold, no?" to be a pun on 2k for an estimate of 2000 attendees and 2K the weather being 2 Kelvin.</p> <p>If so, that's killed that joke! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6180&page=4#post-66356 Fri, 20 Apr 2012 15:55:45 +0000 crowriver 66356@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Average length of a medium sized car = 5 metres<br /> Estimated adult turnout = 2000 people<br /> 5 x 2000 = 10000 metres, or 10 kilometres.</p> <p>That's if the cars are bumper to bumper with no spaces. Add an extra metre to each, that's 12 kilometres of tailback. Roughly the distance from the Parliament to the airport, or longer than the tram line. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6180&page=4#post-66355 Fri, 20 Apr 2012 15:48:21 +0000 wingpig 66355@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>If anyone planning on making a speech with or without a megaphone can be supplied rough numbers of participants observed on the day before everyone assembles at Parliament, noting in their speech how long a tailback the same number of people would have formed had they all been following the route as single occupants of cars (perhaps counting all children below driving age as passengers, for fairness) could be amusing as it could easily be a distance longer than the route itself. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6180&page=4#post-66354 Fri, 20 Apr 2012 15:48:06 +0000 crowriver 66354@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>It was pretty cold in January but still about 250-300 folk turned up. That was a weekday lunchtime too. Anything over a thousand looks like a LOT of cyclists. I did Edinburgh-St Andrews in 2010, and over 1300 riders were there. A huge column of cyclists, you could not see the front nor the back of it when in the midst. Two thousand or more will look absolutely ginormous once we're all together... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6180&page=4#post-66353 Fri, 20 Apr 2012 15:47:59 +0000 cb 66353@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Long term forecast looks good, and warm.</p> <p><a href="http://www.yr.no/place/United_Kingdom/Scotland/Edinburgh/long.html">http://www.yr.no/place/United_Kingdom/Scotland/Edinburgh/long.html</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6180&page=4#post-66352 Fri, 20 Apr 2012 15:46:41 +0000 chdot 66352@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"Bit cold, no?"</p> <p>Only for standing around...</p> <p>Maybe need to organise some grass track racing. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6180&page=4#post-66351 Fri, 20 Apr 2012 15:46:34 +0000 ExcitableBoy 66351@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"Bit cold, no? "</p> <p>:) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6180&page=4#post-66350 Fri, 20 Apr 2012 15:42:41 +0000 steveo 66350@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Bit cold, no? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6180&page=4#post-66349 Fri, 20 Apr 2012 15:39:49 +0000 chdot 66349@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"and the weather of course"</p> <p>I'm thinking 2k. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6180&page=3#post-66348 Fri, 20 Apr 2012 15:34:22 +0000 SRD 66348@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@excitableboy - depends on how hard we flyer, leaflet etc over the next few days! (and the weather of course) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6180&page=3#post-66347 Fri, 20 Apr 2012 15:32:01 +0000 ExcitableBoy 66347@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I know that counting large crowds is difficult and the numbers obtained often disputed. But, does anybody have any idea how many people are expected on the 28th?</p> <p>So my wild guesstimate 8128 (but I reckon I could be out by up to a factor of x3 ??) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6180&page=3#post-66343 Fri, 20 Apr 2012 15:01:11 +0000 spytfyre 66343@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Once in a large crowd I might remove the hi viz just to show off my t-shirt slogan<br /> I will not, however, be removing my h****t </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6180&page=3#post-66337 Fri, 20 Apr 2012 14:18:41 +0000 Morningsider 66337@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>wfb - true, but at the time "volvo driver" was almost synonymous with "Guardian reader" - which was what ever car company was trying to avoid. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6180&page=3#post-66335 Fri, 20 Apr 2012 13:57:53 +0000 wee folding bike 66335@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I'm pretty sure Volvo were discussing safety before the '80s. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6180&page=3#post-66334 Fri, 20 Apr 2012 13:49:59 +0000 Morningsider 66334@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Dave - good points. I suppose my point is that no-one criticises drivers for taking precautions to protect themselves in an accident (short of driving carefully though - in some cases). However, cyclists who do the same (please, this isn't a call to discuss you know what) are criticised for putting people off cycling.</p> <p>Car safety is an interesting topic - an old auto industry type told me that no-one mentioned safety until the late 1980's as it was seen as the ultimate no-no in car marketing (too wimpy and highlighting that your product may kill the customer wasn't considered a good idea). This apparently changed when more women started to buy cars, or influence car buying decisions, as they were more concerned with safety, especially for their children. </p>