http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: #pop28 triumph en Mon, 22 Jun 2026 20:27:20 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6328&page=2#post-67942 Mon, 30 Apr 2012 16:18:19 +0000 Roibeard 67942@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@kaputnik <em>The beauty of PoP is that it's a group of people with no corporate, financial, political or membership strings, so could do and say as they pleased.</em></p> <p>With the obvious exception of the B***pton product placement...</p> <p>:-p</p> <p>Robert </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6328&page=2#post-67933 Mon, 30 Apr 2012 15:48:56 +0000 kaputnik 67933@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>For the record, EBC and Greasemonkey asked of their own accord to come along. Although it looked cool on the day that we had arranged it all :)</p> <p>Quite a few of the politicians who turned up also weren't "invited" - beyond everyone in Scotland being invited! What I mean was, word was obviously out and they clicked that this was a chance to schmooze with the electorate very close to an election. Which is great as it means that they would have to turn up and talk "our language" if they wanted to get votes. Hopefully! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6328&page=2#post-67925 Mon, 30 Apr 2012 15:25:38 +0000 crowriver 67925@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I was pleased to see EBC (and Grease Monkey) there fixing folks' bikes - for free! They do this at the annual Spokes bike breakfast at the City chambers too. </p> <p>Yes, it's goodwill marketing but it is also useful and supportive. I don't have a problem with bike shops/mechanics advertising that it cares about this issue. Not one bit. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6328&page=2#post-67924 Mon, 30 Apr 2012 15:23:25 +0000 LaidBack 67924@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><strong>kptnk</strong> <em>No doubt SKY &amp; Virgin would like to be involved<br /> </em><br /> No doubt... But we don't need their naff branding.</p> <p>I agree - I'd hate it to be some horrible Virgin National Bike Day</p> <p>Of course retailers were aware of this as sales promo ... we a logo on a flag on one trike!</p> <p>Then I saw that EBC and Grease Monkey had flags... then again they were there to help people keep rolling and it was nice to see Ged from Bike Co-op so enthused... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6328&page=2#post-67922 Mon, 30 Apr 2012 15:17:02 +0000 SRD 67922@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>and a lot of them put up posters and handed out flyers too. i also know that at least one lbs made a sale as a direct result of pop. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6328&page=2#post-67921 Mon, 30 Apr 2012 15:13:42 +0000 steveo 67921@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I wouldn't begrudge the local bike shops getting to fly their flags in return for mechanical assistance, ultimately they are as involved as "we" are in "this" </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6328&page=2#post-67918 Mon, 30 Apr 2012 15:12:02 +0000 SRD 67918@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I *love* Spokes. I am in awe of their skills and know-how and the time they put in. But also curious to know how it works. Must get ddf off in a quiet corner of a pub sometime.... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6328&page=2#post-67913 Mon, 30 Apr 2012 15:06:22 +0000 spytfyre 67913@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Liked to see the EBC adverts at the starting line - someone said "they were nice and helped us pumping up tyres" and that let them do that? Hmmm</p> <p>EDIT - I'm not complaining their opportunistic capitalist advertising, good on them for having the foresight to send mechanics down there (after all not like the shop would be busy with half the bikes in the city in a queue not a million miles away.</p> <p>(just being a grumpy old cynic is all) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6328&page=2#post-67909 Mon, 30 Apr 2012 14:52:32 +0000 kaputnik 67909@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>No doubt SKY &amp; Virgin would like to be involved </em></p> <p>No doubt... But we don't need their naff branding. We've got our own! Personally I'd be aghast at the thought. The beauty of PoP is that it's a group of people with no corporate, financial, political or membership strings, so could do and say as they pleased. It was sheer co-incidence that so many others happened to agree with what was done and said. Anyone would think it was intentional? :) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6328&page=2#post-67907 Mon, 30 Apr 2012 14:48:52 +0000 chdot 67907@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>If names are being mentioned, another key person is Sandy Scotland, who has looked at uncountable numbers of Planning Applications over many years. He then points out to the council that the 'cycle provision' is lacking, inadequate or even against its own guidelines.</p> <p>Council usually (but not always) agrees and gets developers to change things.</p> <p>High class planning consultancy service - for free...</p> <p>He also has involvements with Sustrans, SEStran and Cycling Scotland. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6328&page=2#post-67903 Mon, 30 Apr 2012 14:42:25 +0000 chdot 67903@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"* Actually he does so much more than that, it's an unfair description. DdF is a tremendously active campaigner, activist and administrator."</p> <p>YES!</p> <p>(Including most of the words printed in <em>all</em> <a href="http://www.spokes.org.uk/wordpress/category/spokes_bulletin">the Bulletins</a> (I expect he is already working on number 113) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6328&page=2#post-67901 Mon, 30 Apr 2012 14:36:09 +0000 LaidBack 67901@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Was Saturday the 'In town without my car' day that they said would cause traffic chaos? ;-) </p> <p>I bet next year they'll try to make it the annual 'ride your bike in town day'. Take care though... this only is worth having if the other 364 days see an improvement.</p> <p>No doubt SKY &amp; Virgin would like to be involved as people had a day out too cheaply.</p> <p>Can't have that you know... big crowds = big sales opportunities. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6328&page=2#post-67898 Mon, 30 Apr 2012 14:31:10 +0000 chdot 67898@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"the kids would've loved stickers! next time!"</p> <p>Yes, next time.</p> <p>Think this could build for a few years yet... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6328&page=2#post-67897 Mon, 30 Apr 2012 14:29:52 +0000 crowriver 67897@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@SRD, my impression (and this is just an impression, I may be wrong) is that Spokes is run largely by the founder members/members of long standing. One could call that a self selecting clique in sociological/political terms I suppose. DdF is the figurehead and chief spokesperson*, with others (notably Ian Maxwell) being very active too.</p> <p>Many people will probably have huge problems with that style of governance on a point of principle. For me, frankly I don't mind because it is what Spokes <em>does</em> that is important to me. I would hate to see such a valuable organisation be torn apart by internecine struggles over governance, accountability, structures, procedures, etc. This has happened/continues to happen in some other organisations.</p> <p>I'm not necessarily defending perceived lack of transparency. Just saying that I don't mind as I don't have time to bother with taking any of that to task. The cause is more important than the structure, essentially is my position specific to the Spokes context (not in a general, all encompassing way).</p> <p>* Actually he does so much more than that, it's an unfair description. DdF is a tremendously active and committed campaigner, activist and administrator. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6328&page=2#post-67896 Mon, 30 Apr 2012 14:29:28 +0000 SRD 67896@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>the kids would've loved stickers! next time! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6328&page=2#post-67895 Mon, 30 Apr 2012 14:28:59 +0000 steveo 67895@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I wonder how much those embroidered badges cost to have made, a la Yehuda. It would pretty good on my Carradice. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6328&page=2#post-67894 Mon, 30 Apr 2012 14:26:01 +0000 kaputnik 67894@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I'm thinking about some sort of "I pedalled on parliament" badge or likewise. It doesn't achieve anything, but it's nice to have. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6328&page=2#post-67890 Mon, 30 Apr 2012 14:22:04 +0000 amir 67890@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Well POP28 has inspired me to send in a (late) bunch of emails to Midlothian candidates. Hurrah! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6328&page=2#post-67887 Mon, 30 Apr 2012 14:15:13 +0000 SRD 67887@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"...which SRD hints at. I'm not going to go there as I've no interest in challenging the current 'leadership'" </p> <p>Sorry...curiosity, not challenging. have been wanting to post that for a while...but that's just me. i like to know how organizations work (professional curiosity in part). </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6328&page=2#post-67883 Mon, 30 Apr 2012 14:08:22 +0000 Claggy Cog 67883@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@lionfish - </p> <p><em>Word of Mouth? Posters? Fliers/on bikes or in cycle shops? Internet forums? Blogs? Other?</em></p> <p>I think a combination of all of those things, I think social networking such as Twitter appear to be more instant and the rallying cry can be heard faster than ever. All the flyers at targetted sites such as university, hospitals, large companies as well as bike racks in and around town. </p> <p>I think people are genuinely fed up with the state of roads/infrastructure. </p> <p>I think people are genuinely shocked at the number of cyclists who have died in recent years on Edinburgh roads, and particularly the last few in such a short time scale.</p> <p>It seems to me that most of the organisers for POP appear to be members of this forum!! Whether they were to start off with I cannot say for certain but this forum was instrumental in organising and being used to co-ordinate things. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6328&page=2#post-67881 Mon, 30 Apr 2012 14:05:05 +0000 SRD 67881@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"How can we get more directly involved? Where/when do the core organisers meet?! What do we need to do in the meantime to keep up the pressure?" </p> <p>all good questions. and good ideas on this thread and others. some good ideas emerging at the virtual POP HQ as well (see - lack of transparency!!!). we've had lots of nice emails directed at our 'contact us' address too. all coming together, just a little slowly! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6328&page=2#post-67880 Mon, 30 Apr 2012 14:05:02 +0000 crowriver 67880@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>surely one of the upsides of having a larger membership is that the organisation would have more money. Isn't that good?</em></p> <p>Money isn't everything. More members are also more admin. If the majority of new members are 'sleeping'/non-active, ie. just reading the newsletter, maybe turning up to the odd demo, then that would be a huge headache for a small core team to deal with.</p> <p>Yes, a larger membership might bring in fresh blood, more folk to do admin, etc. Based on my experience of volunteer run groups though, this very rarely happens. It is usually the same people who have to do most of the work, unless they really pester others to do their share. Even when they do pester others, folk are often too busy or just content to let others do the hard work for them.</p> <p>There are a whole load of other questions about transparency, renewal, etc, which SRD hints at. I'm not going to go there as I've no interest in challenging the current 'leadership' of Spokes, whether it is transparent, democratic, or otherwise. </p> <p>Spokes has done and continues to do a brilliant job. Unless and until there is a <em>need</em> for the organisation to change (ie. a key person/people stands down/steps back) then I don't think much is achieved by questioning from the sidelines. If Spokes members want to influence policy, campaign priorities, etc. then they can sign up to one of the Working Groups and engage more with the organisation. </p> <p>Personally, at present I'm happy to to remain a loyal Spokes 'foot soldier' and leave the prioritising of campaign focus to others. If I ever want to change that, I'll sign up for more work than currently and thus get more 'influence'... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6328#post-67879 Mon, 30 Apr 2012 14:01:32 +0000 SRD 67879@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Spokes - students -- last time DdF and I spoke about online membership / age profile of spokes members and related things, I got the impression that spokes could do without large numbers of student members, because they moved around, etc etc. That is of course, different from people like you who want to DO STUFF. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6328#post-67877 Mon, 30 Apr 2012 13:59:38 +0000 lionfish 67877@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Maybe on topic? One thing that is a bit strange is how little uni students do to campaign for better cycling: There's relevant societies (such as P&amp;P) and lots of cyclists! I wonder how SPOKES could get them campaigning? Maybe offer to do a talk or something at a society meeting? I go along to the Uni Amnesty International Society's letter writing each week, so there's lots of people wanting to campaign!</p> <p>One thing I like about SPOKES is the paper newsletters, I feel I'm far more likely to read them than I am if they appear in my inbox. I wonder if it's worth continuing to post the newsletters to people even well after their membership's lapsed (or even those who never have had membership!).<br /> I'm always motivated by the end of reading them to sit down and write another letter to my Councillors/MSPs/MPs!</p> <p>(back on topic!) Well done to the organisers of POP28. I am still amazed by the number of people you managed to reach. What do you think was most important? Word of Mouth? Posters? Fliers/on bikes or in cycle shops? Internet forums? Blogs? Other?</p> <p>(finally!) I don't think I can wait a year for the next POP. What about in 6 months?! How can we get more directly involved? Where/when do the core organisers meet?! What do we need to do in the meantime to keep up the pressure? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6328#post-67874 Mon, 30 Apr 2012 13:55:27 +0000 spytfyre 67874@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Reply back from Councillor Andrew Burns, he couldn't make it to the ride but he has already signed the manifesto.<br /> And Sarah Boyack MSP who attended.<br /> Both impressed with turnout and strength of message conveyed. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6328#post-67864 Mon, 30 Apr 2012 13:43:16 +0000 amir 67864@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Spokes does a wonderful job, which is why I am a member. Like SRD, I have overlooked the renewal. A quicker means of payment would have made this less likely.</p> <p>DdF - surely one of the upsides of having a larger membership is that the organisation would have more money. Isn't that good? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6328#post-67856 Mon, 30 Apr 2012 13:35:31 +0000 Dave 67856@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I'm sure my comment about online joining is not (and nobody has taken as) a criticism of Spokes in general :)</p> <p>Should have known better than to blend two points in one topic! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6328#post-67849 Mon, 30 Apr 2012 13:28:46 +0000 spytfyre 67849@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@Dave - no I use writetothem all the time and am not a Spokes member.<br /> Have just written a large message to councillors and MSPs as a condition someone gave me of downloading and printing their shot of me and Tigermoth[1]<br /> Quite how they tagged me I do not know as they're not a CCE'er and hail fae Dundee I think they said... maybe they found me in other shots of mine from searching but I'm not in my own photos... It's all fun though </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6328#post-67842 Mon, 30 Apr 2012 13:23:01 +0000 SRD 67842@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Dave - I use write to them (or just email them direct), but am a spokes member (although I have now failed to return my renewal form...) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6328#post-67839 Mon, 30 Apr 2012 13:21:32 +0000 SRD 67839@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>thanks DDF, and yes, I did know most of what chdot, crowriver, and you explained. but does your reply mean that policy/decisions are made at 'stuffing' meetings? </p> <p>I guess my final point would be that it is difficult to take a decision about which boxes to tick, without knowing more about how they are done and who does them. In other orgs, this becomes clear because you are circulated info about who does what, sometimes even minutes of meetings! </p> <p>but of course, I also join the chorus of 'it works' - it works very very well and if it is sustainable, then all the better. </p>