CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: give me cycle space advert

CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: give me cycle space advert http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: give me cycle space advert en Sun, 17 May 2026 08:55:03 +0000 chdot on "give me cycle space advert" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6358&page=3#post-74989 Mon, 18 Jun 2012 21:47:37 +0000 chdot 74989@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ " Tim Kraan (@timkraan) 18/06/2012 19:13 Ontario needs a one-meter passing rule for cyclists, coroner says <a href="http://bit.ly/M5NyIS" rel="nofollow">http://bit.ly/M5NyIS</a> #bikeTO " DaveC on "give me cycle space advert" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6358&page=3#post-70392 Mon, 14 May 2012 16:47:47 +0000 DaveC 70392@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ I can't help my family as I live an hour out of town but I can help others in town. If you (AIMC) want to have a go at cycling in to school, I and I'm sure one or two others could offer help riding with you. Of course I'd probably have to ride to work after seeing the children in school. chdot on "give me cycle space advert" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6358&page=3#post-70389 Mon, 14 May 2012 16:29:40 +0000 chdot 70389@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ " City Council has passed a new bicycle safety ordinance requiring vehicles to maintain a three-foot passing distance when passing bicyclists, and banning cars from driving or parking in bike lanes. " <a href="http://www.urbancincy.com/2012/05/cincinnati-receives-national-bicycle-award-announces-bike-share-feasibility-study" rel="nofollow">http://www.urbancincy.com/2012/05/cincinnati-receives-national-bicycle-award-announces-bike-share-feasibility-study</a> Not Edinburgh then... Greenroofer on "give me cycle space advert" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6358&page=3#post-70338 Mon, 14 May 2012 12:38:19 +0000 Greenroofer 70338@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ On the general point about giving cyclists space, I still remember something I saw on TV years and years and years ago. It was a documentary about police drivers, and in this case we were riding with a police driver escorting an ambulance at high speed through a busy city. He was giving a running commentary as he powered across the city with lights flashing and sirens wailing. As he approached one junction with the ambulance close behind he said "I'm making it clear that we're going to need lots of room here". I think he was referring to his road position and his need to get drivers well out of his way. Now it's hard to miss two emergency vehicles in full cry, but it's interesting how he felt he needed 'lots of room' all the same. I suspect that many cyclists don't assertively make it clear that they, too, need 'lots of room'. This must be particularly difficult to teach to less-confident children... chdot on "give me cycle space advert" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6358&page=3#post-70254 Sun, 13 May 2012 17:33:34 +0000 chdot 70254@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ @AIMC suggest you direct those parents (and others) to <a href="http://edinburgh.cyclestreets.net/journey/?customlink=1" rel="nofollow">http://edinburgh.cyclestreets.net/journey/?customlink=1</a> - you can put in a 'to' pin for your school so they can start looking at route possibilities. CycleStreets is usually good at finding routes/cut throughs that not everyone is aware of. chdot on "give me cycle space advert" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6358&page=3#post-70251 Sun, 13 May 2012 17:16:16 +0000 chdot 70251@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Welcome AIMC. "They would love to cycle to school with their children" That's good to hear! Presumably there are already some parents cycling who could help. "Any volunteers out there?" I'm sure there are a few people here who c/would help. Might be better if, initially, a 'session' was organised at a w/e - probably less traffic and no stress of 'getting to school on time'. chdot on "give me cycle space advert" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6358&page=3#post-70250 Sun, 13 May 2012 17:01:16 +0000 chdot 70250@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ "If there's a solution to this obvious logical trap, please tell me" Simple answer (apart from more than one adult) is to do both. Lead and show and then let them go ahead while you observe what they have learned. As always - depends on 'circumstances'. Busyness, road width etc. 'Continuous risk assessment.' Uberuce on "give me cycle space advert" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6358&page=3#post-70249 Sun, 13 May 2012 16:52:15 +0000 Uberuce 70249@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Safety and confidence are often two different animals. For safety you want the pro at the back so he or she can take as aggressive a primary as is needed. For confidence you want the pro at the front so the novice knows where to put the bike. If there's a solution to this obvious logical trap, please tell me what it is. It's have two pros, I know. Claggy Cog on "give me cycle space advert" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6358&page=3#post-70248 Sun, 13 May 2012 16:51:26 +0000 Claggy Cog 70248@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ @AIMC What is the local primary school? Roibeard on "give me cycle space advert" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6358&page=3#post-70245 Sun, 13 May 2012 16:35:06 +0000 Roibeard 70245@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ @AIMC - my preference is for two abreast, with the child on the inside. Only dropping into single file, secondary position, when it is safe to do so. In single file, the child is in front, so can still be observed. Similarly for three children, two up front, followed by the final child and the adult on the outside. For just two kids, I'm less certain - I ended up with myself and younger child leading with the older child trailing behind. This was never entirely satisfactory as gaps opened up too frequently. The outside position carries with it a bit more responsibility as you're controlling the traffic more, and calling/deciding when to drop into single file. I'm now grooming the eldest for more independent cycling, so I've placed her in the front outside position, and I'm now trailing so that I can observe her and coach as necessary. I'm much less comfortable with this, but it seems necessary to develop her skills! Robert AIMC on "give me cycle space advert" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6358&page=3#post-70244 Sun, 13 May 2012 16:02:06 +0000 AIMC 70244@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Speaking with 3 Mums at local Primary School on Friday. They would love to cycle to school with their children (they currently walk to school) but they are nervous and unsure about correct road position – children before/after and what to do when road narrows. chdot - “If you are talking about schools, just needs two or three parents willing to do the same route at the same time each day.” These parents would definitely give it a go if someone competent and knowledgeable did the school run with them a few times. Any volunteers out there? chdot on "give me cycle space advert" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6358&page=3#post-70239 Sun, 13 May 2012 13:52:58 +0000 chdot 70239@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ now in print - <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/chdot/7187917320/"><img src="http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7071/7187917320_56cacc0b2b.jpg"></a> Why more and more children cycle to school Cycling to school is becoming more popular than ever. Cycling to school is great for kids. It's a fun way to get exercise and healthier kids are happier, more self-confident and find it easier to concentrate in class. Cycling to school Is great for drivers. With more children cycling to school, fewer parents have to do the school run. This cuts down on traffic congestion for people commuting to work and makes the drive quicker and easier. Cycling to school Is great for parents. It means your child is getting a large portion of their 60 minutes of daily exercise just by going to school. It gives kids independence and freedom, boosting their self-confidence. It means you don't have to ferry them to school, saving you time. And it's free. But you probably know all that already. What you perhaps didn't know, are the lengths we're going to, to make cycling to school safer than it's ever been. Cycle training helps build your child's confidence. The Bikeability Scotland scheme has replaced the training many of us received when we were kids. It's designed to be fun and informative and gives children the skills they need to cycle on today's roads. There are three levels of Bikeability Scotland, which starts out with basic skills in the playground, and progresses right through to making independent journeys on the road network. 70% of Scotland's schools are already delivering Bikeability Scotland training, with more joining the scheme every year. Cycle Friendly Schools. More and more of Scotland's schools are becoming Cycle Friendly Schools. The award is given to schools that support cycling as part of the school culture by providing the right facilities, training and promotion to encourage children to travel by bike. There are over 130 Cycle Friendly Schools in Scotland, covering 36,000 pupils. Safer roads. The common perception seems to be that the roads today are more dangerous than ever, but that's really not true. The number of children involved in an accident cycling to school has halved in the last ten years, and the number of children hurt by cycling in general has declined by 76% in that time. In 2010 around 16,000 children were cycling to school on a regular basis, yet there were just 13 reported accidents. Support the campaign and give kids cycle space. Despite all that, we know that letting children cycle to school is still a concern for some parents. That's why we're asking drivers everywhere to look out for child cyclists, slow down when passing them and give them as much space on the roads as possible. Our national Give Me Cycle Space campaign alms to create greater awareness of children cycling to school and make the school gates a more cycle friendly place. www cycllngscotland.org Over 36,000 children already go to a Cycle Friendly School Over 16,000 children already cycle to sckool regularly. 70% of Scotland's schools deliver Bikeability training. Using quiet roads and cycle paths can help you avoid busier roads. 20mph zones around schools make cycling safer than ever. Why more and more children cycle to school recombodna on "give me cycle space advert" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6358&page=3#post-68650 Thu, 03 May 2012 15:03:55 +0000 recombodna 68650@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ I hear that from younger kids. eg 'My mum hates cyclists' When we were on the nippie sweetie a wee boy came up to a group of us and said " excuse me yooz were blocking the whole road''..... much to the chagrin of his mother....... crowriver on "give me cycle space advert" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6358&page=3#post-68639 Thu, 03 May 2012 14:35:37 +0000 crowriver 68639@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Very interesting. none of whom drive or are learning to drive Probably next year, though? quite an extensive list from children who don't drive! No doubt years of listening in the back seat of the car to parents grumbling about ****ing cyclists "getting in the way". They couldn't have rattled off their times tables as easily. That's what calculators are for. Anyway, I thought Scots teenagers were all too busy getting drunk and having sex? Oh, that's the 15 year olds... ExcitableBoy on "give me cycle space advert" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6358&page=2#post-68635 Thu, 03 May 2012 14:24:31 +0000 ExcitableBoy 68635@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Well I showed this video to an totally unscientific group of 15 16 year olds this am. Obviously none of whom drive or are learning to drive. I then asked them how much distance the video suggested you give the girl on her bike. 11 said an arms length 0 said from finger tip to finger tip 4 did not know Despite not driving they were not short on opinions of cyclists; some of their comments were: - "they are nippy" - "they squeeze through cars and can scratch them" - "they hold up traffic" - "they don't pay road tax" - "they should take the bus" - "they shouldn't take up the roads" - "they should ride on the pavement" - "they should ride on cycle paths" - on futher questionong these are cyclepaths away 'somewhere else' - " they have no insurance" Nothing we've not heard before, but quite an extensive list from children who don't drive! They couldn't have rattled off their times tables as easily. wingpig on "give me cycle space advert" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6358&page=2#post-68561 Thu, 03 May 2012 10:30:06 +0000 wingpig 68561@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ I'd like it better if it also showed an overtaking manoeuvre from above in order to stress the point about not only leaving plenty of space whilst passing but also not cutting in too quickly once past. It might cost more to make than a simple stop-frame film but I'd have done something depicting a child-cyclist in the middle of a large ellipsoidal CGI force-bubble which burns the paint of anything coming too close to it, with some sort of punchline comparing the relative ease of replacing burnt-off paint in the imaginary CGI scenario with the difficulty in restoring a squished child in reality. Baldcyclist on "give me cycle space advert" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6358&page=2#post-68551 Thu, 03 May 2012 10:16:22 +0000 Baldcyclist 68551@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Don't see what the confusion is over the advert? You know when you are describing to someone how big an object is when the object isn't there, and you use your hands and say "it's this big" |__O__| or this big |____O____|. She is simply saying "I need this much space" |__________O__________| ie, impying she needs lots of space, simples! *excuse poor drawings, my imagination doesn't stretch very far! **and yes I do realise that "lots of space" is subjective, but I think the general message is clear. mgj on "give me cycle space advert" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6358&page=2#post-68547 Thu, 03 May 2012 10:10:39 +0000 mgj 68547@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ OK, so they should be campaigning for the removal of setts and the creation of better road surfaces, traffic calmed in ways that dont affect cyclists. My 8 year old has cycled to school all week but I wouldnt allow her to use the road yet because of the road state. That's for Gillespies; other schools have different issues. Instography on "give me cycle space advert" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6358&page=2#post-68546 Thu, 03 May 2012 10:05:19 +0000 Instography 68546@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ I guess they are focused on streets around schools where kids might be cycling (although they really should probably be walking - it's better for them) so 20 or 30mph areas. mgj on "give me cycle space advert" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6358&page=2#post-68545 Thu, 03 May 2012 10:03:39 +0000 mgj 68545@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ What I dont understand is that no one is campaigning to have a variable distance based on the speed of the traffic. If I am passed on my bike by someone doing 20 or someone doing 60, I expect them to be slightly different distances away if I want to feel safe. I'm not sure the same thing applies to overtaking a car (or at least as much) because of the lack of wobble. Instography on "give me cycle space advert" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6358&page=2#post-68489 Wed, 02 May 2012 21:41:05 +0000 Instography 68489@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ There should be no 'if' about whether it gets drivers to think. That has been researched. The research says it does work. Cycling Scotland's website says: Results The campaign has been piloted in several local authority areas, and has proven to be very effective in changing the attitudes of parents and drivers. The results of last year’s campaign showed that: 94% of people said the campaign made them slow down when driving in Cycle Friendly Zones 97% of people said the campaign made them more aware of children cycling to school 94.5% of people said the campaign made them give kids more space 79% of people said the campaign made them feel more confident about letting their children cycle to school The campaign has also shown great results in encouraging more children to cycle, with levels of cycling increasing significantly across the participating 2010 schools in the primary 5 to 7 age group. That should make it the first advertisement in the history of advertising that has been almost 100% effective. And yet, still only 3% of children cycle to school. How do we square that? I don't know which to shake my head at first: that someone got paid for that research, that Cycling Scotland believed it enough to publish it or that neither the researchers nor Cycling Scotland seem to have heard of <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_desirability_bias">social desirability bias</a> chdot on "give me cycle space advert" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6358&page=2#post-68484 Wed, 02 May 2012 21:30:40 +0000 chdot 68484@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ "I spend a lot of time at work with people who make EEN commentators seem sympathetic, so I may show it to them and see what they think, i.e. does it encourage them to give more or less room/ suggest a distance with which to pass a cyclist." That could be interesting/useful. Morningsider on "give me cycle space advert" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6358&page=2#post-68481 Wed, 02 May 2012 21:24:10 +0000 Morningsider 68481@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ I seem to remember a TV road safety advert from the late 70's or early eighties about giving cyclists space - with a kid on a Raleigh Chopper being passed too close by a van on a high street. I can't find it online, but the National Archives have a great selection of old public information films: <a href="http://nationalarchives.gov.uk/films/" rel="nofollow">http://nationalarchives.gov.uk/films/</a> Quite frankly, I'm amazed any of us are still alive... ExcitableBoy on "give me cycle space advert" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6358&page=2#post-68479 Wed, 02 May 2012 21:18:09 +0000 ExcitableBoy 68479@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Aww Smudge you're making me feel bad now. You may well be right and I agree with you when you say, "Drivers who give me this much space (at 24sec) is illustrated by a car giving a decent amount of space to the line of bikes in a good secondary position". But each time I watched it I feared it would do more harm than good. I spend a lot of time at work with people who make EEN commentators seem sympathetic, so I may show it to them and see what they think, i.e. does it encourage them to give more or less room/ suggest a distance with which to pass a cyclist. Smudge on "give me cycle space advert" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6358&page=2#post-68476 Wed, 02 May 2012 20:49:29 +0000 Smudge 68476@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ TBH I don't think it's half as bad as 90% of "official" road safety ads. OK the stretched arms thing arguably gives the wrong impression, but when she says "do you know what I like best about cycling? Drivers who give me this much space" (at 24sec) it is illustrated by a car giving a decent amout of space to the line of bikes in a good secondary position. Whatever was produced, we could argue all day about the detail, but if it gets some drivers to actually *think* about the space they give when they pass bikes then it's a winner. It's a glossy mainstream advert about cycling safety!! I would have expected "great, lets have more and cover adults/speed limits/smidsy's etc etc" but instead all we do is moan about whether it is good enough or not, twenty years ago it would never have been produced! Can't we be just a teeny bit positive for once? Sometimes I think if the government offered us all new bikes for free we'd only complain that they were the wrong colour.... :-/ ExcitableBoy on "give me cycle space advert" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6358&page=2#post-68474 Wed, 02 May 2012 20:29:24 +0000 ExcitableBoy 68474@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Arrrgh! I have watched this video several times now and I hate it. Granted it has a nice tone, the wording is good. However, above people have said: "At least it might make drivers think about the space they give to cyclists." - to me it says 'give cyclists space, they need you to be an arms length away, no matter if it's a child riding along at 10 mph and you're passing them at 30+ mph. If it's an adult you don't need to be so considerate! "Spreading your arms out does not just denote the distance between your fingertips but also the biggest distance you can measure." - however, at the end of the video it says "give me this much room" and there are dotted lines vertically at the girls fingertips. Like some pishy cycle lane. (Also, and this may be a bit far-fetched, arms out to signify the biggest distance you can measure, would not be palm down). ""The purpose of the campaign is to encourage more children to cycle to school. As the major barrier is parents' fear of busy roads" This is so true." The major barrier to children cycling to school MAY be parental fear of busy roads, but not definitely and not even likely in my opinion. It is more likely to be true for primary children, but that does not seem to be where the major problem lies. It is secondary school pupils who scarcely cycle to school. Anyway I guess it doesn't matter if it is the major barrier or not, it is surely a barrier. Please excuse me if this sounds aggressive at all or critical of posters above, it is not meant to be, I do find getting the tone difficult when typing. But as you may have gathered, I really don't like this video - especially when it was created by a cycling body. With friends like that... Andrew SRD on "give me cycle space advert" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6358&page=2#post-68459 Wed, 02 May 2012 16:29:25 +0000 SRD 68459@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ actually, i watched it again and think i should take back my 'gutter' comment, it looks like they are to start, but the front on angle is clearer. but still think we need one for big people too. Min on "give me cycle space advert" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6358&page=2#post-68449 Wed, 02 May 2012 15:58:43 +0000 Min 68449@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ "I think there's some overanalysis being done here... it's got the right sort of message, a good tone (I like cycling to school because people don't drive like berks)" You could well be right. Spreading your arms out does not just denote the distance between your fingertips but also the biggest distance you can measure. It would be interesting to know what the "slumbering masses" actually think. Maybe it puts the concept of giving cyclists space into their concious where before there was no such thing. crowriver on "give me cycle space advert" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6358&page=2#post-68446 Wed, 02 May 2012 15:49:34 +0000 crowriver 68446@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ In the same way, people who drive like complete [insert profanity of choice]'s aren't doing it because they just didn't realise it was scary or dangerous for a cyclist to get cut up. They know perfectly well already. Ah, if only it were so simple. Yes, there are aggressive, "out of my way you ****ing cyclist" types, but there are also bumbling, incompetent, distracted, or medically unfit (eg. poor eyesight) drivers who don't realise what ****s they're being. Dunno which is scarier, to be honest. The first type may use their car as a weapon, or get out and assault you for daring to challenge their supremacy. The second type will leave you maimed or dead in the gutter without even realising they've done anything. Dave on "give me cycle space advert" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6358&page=2#post-68442 Wed, 02 May 2012 15:32:14 +0000 Dave 68442@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ No, but that's a bit like that classic EEN moan about educating cyclists as to the meaning of red lights - everyone in the UK knows what they mean, cyclists more than most (since, on average, cyclists are more likely than 'most' people to have a driving licence). In the same way, people who drive like complete [insert profanity of choice]'s aren't doing it because they just didn't realise it was scary or dangerous for a cyclist to get cut up. They know perfectly well already.