http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: "New bus lane cameras ‘causing road chaos’ " en Tue, 19 May 2026 03:13:29 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6391&page=7#post-112278 Wed, 29 May 2013 23:03:44 +0000 chdot 112278@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="http://www.scotsman.com/edinburgh-evening-news/transport/edinburgh-bus-lane-cameras-for-all-main-routes-in-1-2947120" rel="nofollow">http://www.scotsman.com/edinburgh-evening-news/transport/edinburgh-bus-lane-cameras-for-all-main-routes-in-1-2947120</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6391&page=7#post-83953 Sat, 08 Sep 2012 08:50:07 +0000 crowriver 83953@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Don't forget to add "law abiding, hard working families" in there somewhere too.</p> <p><em>Solution 3 - remove bus lanes</em></p> <p>Effectively, they will be removing stretches of bus lane where there have been 'issues', ie. 'too many' folk have caught breaking the law...</p> <p>Not quite sure how that helps reduce ciongestion, but hey, at least the local media won't be on the Council's back about the fines any more. Or will they? Having scented 'victory', maybe the Evening News will keep the pressure up for its fantasy of scrapping bus lanes? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6391&page=7#post-83952 Sat, 08 Sep 2012 08:38:49 +0000 minus six 83952@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-19517818" rel="nofollow">http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-19517818</a></p> <p><em>The Willowbrae Road cameras were switched off in May after residents received daily fines for driving over the bus lane to access their homes.</em></p> <p>oh so emotive from the bbc... only thing missing there is "hard pressed" </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6391&page=7#post-83920 Fri, 07 Sep 2012 20:13:26 +0000 chdot 83920@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="http://www.scotsman.com/edinburgh-evening-news/transport/edinburgh-bus-lanes-could-be-scrapped-1-2512876" rel="nofollow">http://www.scotsman.com/edinburgh-evening-news/transport/edinburgh-bus-lanes-could-be-scrapped-1-2512876</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6391&page=7#post-83890 Fri, 07 Sep 2012 16:39:23 +0000 kaputnik 83890@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@kim_harding @cocteautriplets there is no campaign from the News! we support lanes and cameras provided they work, see today's leader column</p> <p>Fresh fom the chipwrapper.</p> <p>Its too hard to respond in 140 characters that its peoples abilirty not to drive in the lanes that doesn't work. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6391&page=7#post-83888 Fri, 07 Sep 2012 16:36:08 +0000 Dave 83888@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Man, if solution 3 comes about the only way I'm travelling anywhere is with the trailer (or at least staying well clear of the new urban dual carriageways) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6391&page=7#post-83859 Fri, 07 Sep 2012 14:02:43 +0000 Morningsider 83859@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Solution 3 - remove bus lanes </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6391&page=7#post-83858 Fri, 07 Sep 2012 14:01:35 +0000 kaputnik 83858@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The council really shouldn't have to consult a cycling campaign group about how to enforce bus lanes. There's no smokescreen without fire... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6391&page=7#post-83856 Fri, 07 Sep 2012 13:52:18 +0000 cc 83856@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>Transport officials will involve police officers, the cycling group Spokes and other parties in ensuring the system is more manageable.</em></p> <p>Worth noting. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6391&page=7#post-83854 Fri, 07 Sep 2012 13:51:07 +0000 kaputnik 83854@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Cooncil problem solving logic.</p> <p>Problem 1 - motorists driving in bus lanes due to lack of enforcement and punitive measures<br /> Solution 1 - lobby central government to devolve responsibility to the cooncil so it can enforce and issue penalties on bus lanes</p> <p>Problem 2 - too many motorists <strike>still driving</strike> driving inadvertantly driving on bus lanes and being penalised, local rag stirring up trouble. Cooncil losing stomach to enforce the regulations it lobbied to be allowed to enforce.<br /> Solution 2 - stop enforcing bus lanes and wash hands of the problem</p> <p>Problem 3 - too man motorists driving in bus lanes<br /> Solution 3 - ? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6391&page=7#post-83851 Fri, 07 Sep 2012 13:41:47 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 83851@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"...<em>motorists reported being fined for minor infringements</em>"</p> <p>I only broke the law a <em>little</em> bit...</p> <p>"<em>Glasgow City Council also introduced a similar system with 11 cameras, which was regarded as a success but came under fire for raking in £1m in just 11 weeks</em>"</p> <p>This <em>always</em> baffles me. Think about it, if there was to be a crackdown on muggings, with muggers fined for their actions, and it raised £1M, it would be seen as a success. For some reason setting up a system to catch drivers breaking the rules and that system actually working and catching drivers breaking the rules... Is bad...</p> <p>"<em>The pair of cameras at Willowbrae – which were axed after catching residents every time they drove into or from Willowbrae Avenue</em>"</p> <p>No. Not every time EEN. But rather every time someone drove over the bus lane for quite a long period of time before making the turn. I've driven it. A lot. It's a perfectly easy turn to make. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6391&page=7#post-83850 Fri, 07 Sep 2012 13:31:51 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 83850@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"<em>Thousands of drivers were fined up to £60 when caught out crossing lanes inadvertently in heavy traffic</em>"</p> <p>I wish this 'inadvertent' fallacy would disappear. There may have been <em>some</em> who didn't realise, but I still maintain that anyone driving into a white lined, different coloured, signed area of the road 'inadvertently' shouldn't be behind the wheel. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6391&page=7#post-83849 Fri, 07 Sep 2012 13:31:24 +0000 kaputnik 83849@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@W.C. naturally! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6391&page=7#post-83848 Fri, 07 Sep 2012 13:30:15 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 83848@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I presume you're going to tweet to point this out to them ;) Not that I'd condone such mischievousness of course. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6391&page=7#post-83847 Fri, 07 Sep 2012 13:27:41 +0000 kaputnik 83847@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>The review is a victory for the Evening News</em></p> <p>Interesting, when I tweeted about the original story, the EEN got back to me saying they had no such campaign against bus lanes and enforcement... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6391&page=7#post-83841 Fri, 07 Sep 2012 12:59:22 +0000 cb 83841@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="http://www.scotsman.com/news/transport/edinburgh-s-bus-lanes-set-for-overhaul-1-2512876">The review is a victory for the Evening News</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6391&page=7#post-83836 Fri, 07 Sep 2012 12:46:04 +0000 cb 83836@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-19517818">http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-19517818</a></p> <p>"Changes are to be made to two of Edinburgh's cameras which monitor illegal use of the city's bus lanes.</p> <p>The Willowbrae Road cameras were switched off in May after residents received daily fines for driving over the bus lane to access their homes.</p> <p>Now the road's outbound camera will stay in its current position, but the bus lane will be shortened." </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6391&page=7#post-79796 Sun, 29 Jul 2012 21:33:56 +0000 BikeFan 79796@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>559 - I drive at least 5 days a week, trying to avoid city centre as much as I can, but it's unavoidable at times. </p> <p>A route I take which is similar to your situation is from Albert Street into Middlefield to Spey and Shaws, <a href="https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=Pilrig+Heights,+Edinburgh&amp;hl=en&amp;ll=55.962866,-3.178533&amp;spn=0.000767,0.002564&amp;sll=55.941208,-3.205339&amp;sspn=0.098253,0.328217&amp;oq=pilrig,+edinburgh&amp;t=h&amp;hnear=Pilrig+Heights,+Edinburgh,+United+Kingdom&amp;z=19">via Leith Walk</a> </p> <p>After turning right into Leith Walk, I indicate left, slow down and check for any traffic in the bus lane. If none, I drive into Middlefield. If there is, I just stop until it's safe to turn left - any traffic now in the lane behind me has to also stop. They're not supposed to go in the bus lane, so it's just as if the lane wasn't there and we're driving on a single carriageway. </p> <p>As I slow down, stop, and indicate, people behind can clearly see my intentions and I can't ever recall anyone behind making a fuss - but I'm a nearly-white van man, so maybe I have some immunity.</p> <p>I have no problem driving across a bus lane, that's the only way I'm going to access where I'm going. Admittedly, there are no cameras that I know of on that section of road, but I seem to recall from this forum that you're allowed 5 seconds in one before incurring a penalty.</p> <p>So we're both right :o) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6391&page=6#post-79776 Sun, 29 Jul 2012 18:03:37 +0000 559 79776@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Bus lanes are if designed and positioned correctly be a positive aid to bus speeds, as a family we use in varying proportions car, bike and bus to get around. I can't and won't comment on the number of drivers caught by the cameras as Iam not party to the evidence. That said, one issue that does need thought about is how vehicles turn left into a side street, across a bus lane. </p> <p>To do this manoeuvre in a vehicle, without entering the bus lane you would indicate, slow down, then if clear turn sharp left across the inside lane into the side street. </p> <p>Questions/risks arising would be;<br /> &gt;You would need to slow down the outside lane<br /> &gt;You would need to ensure inside lane is clear, if not you may have to stop the outside lane until inside lane is clear.</p> <p>Consequently consider IMHO that that the safest approach is to indicate, slow down, if clear move into bus lane, continue indicating and then turn left into side street. This approach gives more time and provides a clearer indication to other road users. </p> <p>Appreciate that this may jar with others on this forum, indeed it may be the rules and markings are not as clear as they should be. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6391&page=6#post-79750 Sun, 29 Jul 2012 09:28:20 +0000 Nelly 79750@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>This is such nonsense. The bus lanes are signed properly, and if drivers (I drive too) cant work it out, then tough. Its a bit like the whinging about the average speed cameras in Fife, over FRB - minimal effect on journey times, arguably help the flow - but people still whinge.</p> <p>I use a car once a week on average, dislike driving at rush hour, but find it odd that years of roadworks in city centre still see so many driving through it.</p> <p>Despite tramworks, edinburghs bus service is brilliant, and if i couldnt ride to work - that would be my mode - no question. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6391&page=6#post-79747 Sun, 29 Jul 2012 09:09:07 +0000 cc 79747@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><strong>custard</strong> does have a point. Of course no drivers should be exempt from the law - so many are in Edinburgh and that causes big problems for people on bicycles, as discussed on the QBC thread - but equally the roads should be designed in such a way as to guide everyone into the correct behaviour. This is the Dutch design principle of <a href="http://www.aviewfromthecyclepath.com/search/label/sustainable%20safety">sustainable safety</a>. If a road guides drivers into doing the wrong thing, the road needs to be redesigned.</p> <p>Off the top of my head, couldn't the bus lanes be separated physically from the other-motor-vehicles lanes? With physically separated &amp; protected cycle paths too, naturally.</p> <p><strong>Tulyar</strong>, I love the cars/guns parallel. I'll remember that. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6391&page=6#post-79743 Sun, 29 Jul 2012 08:07:27 +0000 custard 79743@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>in Edinburgh should be deterring and not issuing penalties, so in a perfect world there should be zero offences. </p> <p>“Clearly that will never happen, but the authority has to determine if the people being caught are wilful evaders.</p> <p>“But if I, as a southerner, drive up to Edinburgh and make a simple mistake, because I’m not familiar with the area, should I be penalised? We’d like the authority to check who is committing the offences and use this to make the scheme work better.”</em></p> <p>yes I like when I go to another city, that I am exempt from the rules and laws.......</p> <p><em>“The authority needs to look at why 650 drivers per week are still going into bus lanes. It seems unlikely it’s deliberate because a substantial fine would put you off, so is there still some confusion over times and signage?</em></p> <p>so they accidently go into the big green lane, that everyone else isnt in? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6391&page=6#post-79740 Sun, 29 Jul 2012 00:25:10 +0000 Tulyar 79740@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Hmm I reckon element-82 needs to check-out gumtree or freecycle for a replacement trailer, although the cost in motoring would probably offset against the new one pretty quickly.</p> <p>I consider cars like guns, they are pieces of machinery that can kill and injure far to easily if used wrongly. So to use a car on the road you need to receive training and hold a licence - just like a gun. Just like guns there is a system for using the equipment and one for owning it. In Scotland we do have the glory of a legal opinion that cycling is actually mechanically assisted pedestrian locomotion (Lord MacKay 1931).</p> <p>Quite interesting comment on the need to deliver things - at 7 Dials in London the area was totally closed to motor vehicles for a day - everything was delivered by cycle, and in London Gnewt deliver around 3000 drops per day for one office supplier alone by cargo bike. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6391&page=6#post-79730 Sat, 28 Jul 2012 22:07:22 +0000 Arellcat 79730@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>A remarkable show of solidarity for common sense in the comments. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6391&page=6#post-79724 Sat, 28 Jul 2012 21:11:43 +0000 chdot 79724@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="http://www.scotsman.com/edinburgh-evening-news/transport/single-bus-lane-cam-nets-10-000-in-just-10-weeks-1-2438325" rel="nofollow">http://www.scotsman.com/edinburgh-evening-news/transport/single-bus-lane-cam-nets-10-000-in-just-10-weeks-1-2438325</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6391&page=6#post-72200 Fri, 25 May 2012 23:45:27 +0000 RJ 72200@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"Jaywalking"? No such "offence"; ergo, no fines.</p> <p>(Me?: variously cyclist, pedestrian, bus passenger, car driver, car passenger, taxi passenger. I don't particularly enjoy driving in town - and consequently tend to choose not to). </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6391&page=6#post-72198 Fri, 25 May 2012 23:38:11 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 72198@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I drive quite a lot in the city. Probably more than most on this forum. Personally I love driving (just not in the city), and love my (sporty) car (with a desire for a classic one of these days). I could, legitimately, be described as a petrol head. Plus, as posted upthread, my father in law lives on Willowbrae Avenue, and just last weekend used the entry to that street that people were complaining about having to make a 'hard left' to enter.</p> <p>As others have mentioned 'road tax' doesn't exist, hasn't since the 30s, abolished because it was believed that it might make drivers think they had more right to be on the roads, and that was seen as a bad thing (if bikes were subject to this tax they'd be zero-rated on emissions and so the DVLA costs would be doubled without any additional revenue).</p> <p>Ad you most certainly don't get fined for obeying the rules - exactly the opposite. You don't get fined for 'clipping' a lane either. I'd be willing to bet a huge amount of money that not a single fine-photo shows someone just clipping a lane.</p> <p>Fining 'jay walking' and opening up the city to cars all over leads to 'prosperity'? I'd have my doubts about that (I'd be interested to know which countr you come from as a comparison if you'd be so inclined?). </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6391&page=6#post-72190 Fri, 25 May 2012 22:35:21 +0000 Arellcat 72190@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I haven't driven a car in Edinburgh for a year and a half now. I've never rented a car or used the City Car Club. I can't say I particularly enjoy riding my motorbike in Edinburgh either because of the lack of filtering room that invariably ends in a bus lane or an ASL box. I look at that massive green lane beside me and wish I was cycling! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6391&page=6#post-72189 Fri, 25 May 2012 22:16:34 +0000 SRD 72189@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Mr SRd hails from the Motor City and has been known to rent a car. I navigate. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6391&page=6#post-72188 Fri, 25 May 2012 22:00:57 +0000 Uberuce 72188@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em> I don't know how many people on this forum have ever sat behind a steering wheel.</em> </p> <p>Nor do I, overall, but just in this thread I know for nae-kiddin sure that recombodna does, since I met him offline first when he was driving his van. Of the rest I know from reading posts or offline conversation that Stepdoh, spytfyre, Dave, Instography, crowriver, steveo, Min, gembo and anth have all driven in Edinburgh recently. Well, maybe not recently in Min and crow's case; if my memory serves, then you hire cars if and when needed. And if it does serve, then why can I remember a detail that is of no practical use to me, but still forget to check if I have my keys, wallet and phone before leaving the house?</p> <p>Wouldn't bet the house on Morningsider, Greenroofer and wingpig, but I'd definitely risk the price of dinner; got that kinda-sure feeling I've read a post from them about driving. </p> <p>Kaputnik, SRD and myself are to the best of my knowledge still virginal in the field of Edinburgh driving.</p> <p>The rest: I am afraid I can't remember. </p>