http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: After the election en Thu, 21 May 2026 19:02:11 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6428&page=2#post-69957 Thu, 10 May 2012 16:13:16 +0000 chdot 69957@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Everyone has a different version...</p> <p>"I will correct one myth doing the rounds in the twitter-sphere"</p> <p><a href="http://pauledie.blogspot.co.uk/2012/05/gambits-and-endgames.html" rel="nofollow">http://pauledie.blogspot.co.uk/2012/05/gambits-and-endgames.html</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6428&page=2#post-69564 Wed, 09 May 2012 00:19:36 +0000 spytfire 69564@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I'm still happy with the councillors my area got, in fact I know two out of cycle, is write to them up to date yet? Can I ask my new SNP dude what his views are.</p> <p>Edit: no </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6428&page=2#post-69499 Tue, 08 May 2012 13:50:10 +0000 chdot 69499@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"Whoa... you go away for one day and this happens?"</p> <p>Aye - a couple of hours is a long time in Edinburgh politics. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6428&page=2#post-69495 Tue, 08 May 2012 13:42:57 +0000 spytfyre 69495@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Whoa... you go away for one day and this happens? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6428&page=2#post-69465 Tue, 08 May 2012 12:22:25 +0000 chdot 69465@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="http://www.scotsman.com/edinburgh-evening-news/deal-is-done-city-council-is-snp-and-labour-coalition-1-2280828" rel="nofollow">http://www.scotsman.com/edinburgh-evening-news/deal-is-done-city-council-is-snp-and-labour-coalition-1-2280828</a></p> <p>Seems to be a reasonable analysis of some of the toing and froing.</p> <p>"</p> <p>But today Cllr Burns said: “I’m confident I will be able to work with Steve and the rest of the SNP group without any difficulty whatsoever.” </p> <p>"</p> <p>Time will tell!</p> <p>"<br /> He said the two parties would finalise a detailed programme in the next couple of days.</p> <p>"</p> <p>That will definitely be interesting. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6428&page=2#post-69442 Tue, 08 May 2012 11:12:35 +0000 crowriver 69442@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Here's Gavin Corbett's take on the recent coalition talks in Edinburgh:</p> <p><a href="http://www.edinburghgreens.org.uk/site/councillors/edinburgh-talks/" rel="nofollow">http://www.edinburghgreens.org.uk/site/councillors/edinburgh-talks/</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6428&page=2#post-69385 Mon, 07 May 2012 20:56:48 +0000 RJ 69385@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>*Gulp*</p> <p>I wasn't expecting that (I guess like a lot of people) - but it's the only way the maths works, I think (Lab + Green + LibDem = 29 = 58/2 which is not a majority ...).</p> <p>And a thinner than waffer-thin (TM) "traffic light" coalition would have got no mercy at all from Ministers.</p> <p>Elementary:<br /> &lt;quote = Holmes&gt;How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?&lt;/quote&gt; </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6428&page=2#post-69384 Mon, 07 May 2012 20:56:19 +0000 crowriver 69384@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>That's democracy. I bet some Labour supporters will be furious though (as will some SNP supporters).</p> <p>So the Scotsman speculation about the Tories was just spin/speculation after all.</p> <p>Can't say I'm best pleased, but I support the Green councillors' decision to stay out. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6428&page=2#post-69382 Mon, 07 May 2012 20:53:37 +0000 kaputnik 69382@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>On paper both parties are left of centre. What separates them apart from the question of the Union? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6428&page=2#post-69380 Mon, 07 May 2012 20:45:51 +0000 chdot 69380@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>It's all over -</p> <p><a href="http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/news/article/877/labour_and_snp_join_forces_to_take_edinburgh_forward" rel="nofollow">http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/news/article/877/labour_and_snp_join_forces_to_take_edinburgh_forward</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6428&page=2#post-69378 Mon, 07 May 2012 20:42:12 +0000 chdot 69378@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>If a Green Chair gets voted down, so will a Lab one - so no administration. </p> <p>You seem more swayed by numbers than the political abilities of any individual (of any party).</p> <p>You may be right. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6428&page=2#post-69376 Mon, 07 May 2012 20:38:22 +0000 SRD 69376@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>good god!</p> <p><a href="http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/news/article/877/labour_and_snp_join_forces_to_take_edinburgh_forward">http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/news/article/877/labour_and_snp_join_forces_to_take_edinburgh_forward</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6428&page=2#post-69374 Mon, 07 May 2012 20:31:59 +0000 crowriver 69374@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Right, so chair a committee whose motions get voted down by the (majority) opposition (in scenario a above); or get negotiated away by the coalition partners who have a majority anyway (scenario b).</p> <p>The tram funding and Calman commission episodes at Holyrood show what can happen to minority governments. Which is democratic in principle, but if the majority opposition is SNP/Tory/rump Lib Dem, how will Green pledges get through?</p> <p>As for being the most junior partner in a coalition where the Tories have more votes: Westminster coalition should be caution enough, whatever Labour's good intentions. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6428#post-69373 Mon, 07 May 2012 20:21:21 +0000 chdot 69373@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Except that as part of a coalition they would get a Committee Chair or two - so not just voting fodder/'cover'?? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6428#post-69372 Mon, 07 May 2012 20:17:27 +0000 crowriver 69372@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@chdot, I disagree. It's a calm laying out of the options for the Greens. </p> <p>As I predicted, the Lib Dems are too busy licking their wounds. Fair enough.<br /> 20+6 ≠ a majority. </p> <p>Why enter a coalition if:<br /> a. the administration still doesn't have a majority<br /> b. the party becomes merely a way to 'ameliorate'* a two-party (Lab plus SNP/Tories) coalition which already has a majority with the Greens?</p> <p>It's common sense to then stay out. There's only a point in doing a deal if you actually get to enact some of your policy pledges.</p> <p>* - Clegg-speak for the Lib Dem role vis a vis the Tories at Westminster </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6428#post-69371 Mon, 07 May 2012 20:09:47 +0000 wee folding bike 69371@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Milliband (Ed) told us that Ms Lamont was in charge of Labour in Scotland after the more confused situation which obtained under Mr Grey and his predecessors where he was only the Leader of the Labour Group in the Scottish Parliament. If Milliband (Ed) was telling the truth on control being held in Scotland and a Labour/Tory deal goes ahead in Edinburgh that would mean that, at some level, Ms Lamont has allowed it to proceed. That doesn't seem smart as she presumably wants to distance herself from the Tories. I don't expect the BBC or papers to ask her about this but I would like to. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6428#post-69370 Mon, 07 May 2012 19:57:45 +0000 chdot 69370@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"<br /> Clare Simpson @ClareMSimpson</p> <p>We live in strange times - a Labour Tory coalition in Edinburgh - would people have voted Labour if they'd known this?</p> <p>"</p> <p>Or Green if they thought they'd sideline themselves? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6428#post-69368 Mon, 07 May 2012 19:51:34 +0000 chdot 69368@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"<br /> Marco Biagi @EdinburghBiagi</p> <p>So Edinburgh Labour's coalition-of-all-the-talents idea, straight out of the hippy consensus book, founders on Green opposition. #irony<br /> " </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6428#post-69355 Mon, 07 May 2012 18:54:31 +0000 chdot 69355@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Well that post and the linked document show a curious mix of lack of self confidence - 'well if we were in a coalition with too other parties they'd just ignore us' and arrogance - 'other parties have to agree to change council before we can discuss policies'. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6428#post-69349 Mon, 07 May 2012 18:43:56 +0000 SRD 69349@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>not promising...<a href="http://www.edinburghgreens.org.uk/site/councillors/update-on-coalition-discussions-in-edinburgh/">green councillor's briefing</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6428#post-69342 Mon, 07 May 2012 18:12:39 +0000 crowriver 69342@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Tories are making a lot of noise about being agreeable to coalition in Edinburgh. Labour minority administration would be far preferable to Lab/Con! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6428#post-69341 Mon, 07 May 2012 18:09:56 +0000 crowriver 69341@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@wfb: See <a href="http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6445">this thread</a>. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6428#post-69338 Mon, 07 May 2012 17:57:40 +0000 wee folding bike 69338@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Yes, I remember that was talked about in Westminster 2 years ago. </p> <p>So what do the Greens get from the deal?</p> <p>Edit: the Midlothian deal I mean. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6428#post-69337 Mon, 07 May 2012 17:56:37 +0000 SRD 69337@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"Perhaps the Greens would rather stay flexible than be dragged into things. They may have been watching Mr Clegg in London and how it has worked out for him."</p> <p>they'd be foolish not to be worried about the implications, especially with this example. But my source - pretty solid -- suggests otherwise. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6428#post-69336 Mon, 07 May 2012 17:55:22 +0000 crowriver 69336@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Confidence and supply:</p> <p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confidence_and_supply" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confidence_and_supply</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6428#post-69334 Mon, 07 May 2012 17:53:15 +0000 wee folding bike 69334@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Greens in Mid Lothian have sort of gone into coalition with an independent and SNP. They have promised support. I'm not sure how that is different from coalition. Perhaps they don't get any positions but similarly can bail out if they are not happy. </p> <p><a href="http://www.newsnetscotland.com/index.php/scottish-politics/4917-historic-alliance-sees-snp-end-80-years-of-labour-rule-in-midlothian" rel="nofollow">http://www.newsnetscotland.com/index.php/scottish-politics/4917-historic-alliance-sees-snp-end-80-years-of-labour-rule-in-midlothian</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6428#post-69332 Mon, 07 May 2012 17:44:41 +0000 chdot 69332@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Or maybe that <em>is</em> new politics? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6428#post-69331 Mon, 07 May 2012 17:43:48 +0000 chdot 69331@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"Perhaps the Greens would rather stay flexible than be dragged into things. They may have been watching Mr Clegg in London and how it has worked out for him."</p> <p>I'm sure that's true - but not very 'new politics'. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6428#post-69328 Mon, 07 May 2012 17:40:32 +0000 wee folding bike 69328@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>Opposition parties just voting against everything on principle would not go down well with people who have just voted them in.</em></p> <p>Voting against everything has recently become known as the Bain doctrine. Wullie Bain claimed it was party policy when they didn't vote against Coalition tax proposals. As I recall he made a mistake there as it wasn't even an SNP amendment. I think it was Plaid brought it but it might have been the Green MP. </p> <p>Perhaps the Greens would rather stay flexible than be dragged into things. They may have been watching Mr Clegg in London and how it has worked out for him. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6428#post-69327 Mon, 07 May 2012 17:36:25 +0000 chdot 69327@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"where's andrew burns?"</p> <p>City Chambers with an open door (probably). </p>