CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: ATAP

CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: ATAP - Family network http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: ATAP - Family network en Tue, 21 Apr 2026 05:22:03 +0000 SRD on "ATAP - Family network" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6691&page=2#post-72070 Fri, 25 May 2012 07:51:34 +0000 SRD 72070@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ I just want a seat cover. Mine leaks. chdot on "ATAP - Family network" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6691&page=2#post-72069 Fri, 25 May 2012 07:48:28 +0000 chdot 72069@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ " N-NE Going This project is one of our longer bicycle greenway connectors. The corridor begins at N Vancouver and Williams and extends all the way out to NE 72nd Avenue. This route provides critical east-west connections for Portland’s Bicycle Greenway network. <a href="http://www.portlandonline.com/transportation/index.cfm?c=50518&a=348945" rel="nofollow">http://www.portlandonline.com/transportation/index.cfm?c=50518&a=348945</a> " chdot on "ATAP - Family network" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6691&page=2#post-72067 Fri, 25 May 2012 07:42:48 +0000 chdot 72067@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ "i'd like one of their seat covers" You mean the one advertising - <a href="http://neighborhoodgreenways.org" rel="nofollow">http://neighborhoodgreenways.org</a> " Neighborhood Greenways Streets with low traffic volume and speed where bicycles, pedestrians and neighbors are given priority " SRD on "ATAP - Family network" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6691&page=2#post-72052 Fri, 25 May 2012 00:33:05 +0000 SRD 72052@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ i'd like one of their seat covers chdot on "ATAP - Family network" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6691&page=2#post-72051 Fri, 25 May 2012 00:26:46 +0000 chdot 72051@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ " But what good is a low-stress, family-friendly street that prioritizes bicycling, if no one knows it's there? That's the question motivating a new push by PBOT to further promote Going and make it stand out among its paved peers. " <a href="http://bikeportland.org/2012/05/24/city-puts-marketing-muscle-behind-marquee-bike-boulevard-72312?" rel="nofollow">http://bikeportland.org/2012/05/24/city-puts-marketing-muscle-behind-marquee-bike-boulevard-72312?</a> ExcitableBoy on "ATAP - Family network" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6691&page=2#post-71785 Wed, 23 May 2012 17:43:38 +0000 ExcitableBoy 71785@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Whilst I cycle on the existing paths often, Roseburn Path, Warriston Path etc I can never remember which is which. So for me numbers would help.Each section having Network followed by the month and year of opening perhaps, eg Network 612 - how cool would that be? - only me then!? crowriver on "ATAP - Family network" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6691&page=2#post-71782 Wed, 23 May 2012 17:19:47 +0000 crowriver 71782@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Nothing wrong with aspirations. Achieving/delivering them will be the test. I really hope this plan is delivered: Edinburgh needs it. SRD on "ATAP - Family network" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6691&page=2#post-71773 Wed, 23 May 2012 16:25:21 +0000 SRD 71773@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ ATAP claims to be aiming for unaccompanied 12 year olds! Quite an aspiration for - eg - Russel rd to Union Canal. chdot on "ATAP - Family network" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6691&page=2#post-71769 Wed, 23 May 2012 16:10:29 +0000 chdot 71769@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ I hope that "Family" never appears on any street signs, but it might be legitimate on a map/leaflet highlighting things like the NEPN, Innocent etc. The crucial word is Network. I hope the idea of an (the) Edinburgh Cycle Network does get some prominence, perhaps with Sustrans style signs and also road markings - basically what was happening in London prior to the "Super Highway' concept. Going back to ATAP - "it will need to cross the city centre east to west and north to south". Perhaps these should be quite clearly created/marked/marketed - Cross Town Connectors. These will certainly be much more than 'family friendly' routes. I would hope that they will be designed/created well enough to be attractive to people who happen to want to cycle in the city with youngish children. I seem to remember general aspirations (not necessarily in ATAP) for facilities that could be used by 10 year olds - on their own. To repeat - the crucial word is Network. So anything that is designated Network must be conveniently and safely linked up. This is currently the case for NEPN, because it's mostly off-road. It may soon be possible to refer to routes between and Portobello and Leith as the East Edinburgh Cycle Network. But neither could really be considered to be part of an Edinburgh Cycle Network unless they were well connected to each other - and they would really need to be linked to paths and decent on-road sections in other parts of the city. Min on "ATAP - Family network" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6691&page=2#post-71767 Wed, 23 May 2012 16:07:53 +0000 Min 71767@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Putting in safety as in PS (or Bachgen) suggestion would be better I think. Bureaucracies love 'elf and safety and citing it is often by far the best and easiest way to get stuff done. And it doesn't appear to exclude anyone except for people who like their cycling dangerous. RJ on "ATAP - Family network" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6691&page=2#post-71761 Wed, 23 May 2012 15:38:54 +0000 RJ 71761@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ (On the basis that you fit words to your acronym, Pan-Edinburgh Paths = PEP; but of course the network is not just paths ...) I think Morningsider is on to something. There's hidden power to enable CEC to get on and get the work done in having the planned result labelled as a "family network". It's (more) EEN-proof. Branding (external) can be different. PEP (above) shows it's not my forte ... Morningsider on "ATAP - Family network" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6691&page=2#post-71757 Wed, 23 May 2012 15:17:00 +0000 Morningsider 71757@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ I think people might be missing the point of the "family network". There is no indication in the ATAP that the actual cycle paths/lanes/facilities etc. will ever be signed or generally known as the family network. This seems to be a term coined for the ATAP to describe a specific network of routes and actions to upgrade them. This sort of thing is common in planning documents - a shorthand for pracitioners not really aimed at the general public. The Quality Bike Corridor is an example, people in the know may refer to it as this, but to most people it is simply improved cycle infrastructure. Happy to be proved wrong though - if people do know of plans to roll out a family network branding. EDIT - I have been proved wrong, by the ever knowledgable SRD. In which case, I do agree that there needs to be a new name. cb on "ATAP - Family network" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6691&page=2#post-71756 Wed, 23 May 2012 15:08:23 +0000 cb 71756@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Active Travel Network (Have normal people heard of Active Travel?) Min on "ATAP - Family network" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6691&page=2#post-71755 Wed, 23 May 2012 14:56:00 +0000 Min 71755@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ PS - Edinburgh Cyclesafe Network I quite like this one. Wingpig The Ways of the Unthreatened. In a slightly less serious way I like this one too. :-D wingpig on "ATAP - Family network" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6691&page=2#post-71753 Wed, 23 May 2012 14:48:56 +0000 wingpig 71753@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Edinburgh-Wide Own-Steam-Movement-Enhancing Route Group. Edinburgh Human-Power Access Lines. The Ways of the Unthreatened. SRD on "ATAP - Family network" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6691&page=2#post-71747 Wed, 23 May 2012 14:13:29 +0000 SRD 71747@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Thanks bachgen - any more suggestions? (Just a reminder - thread started from presumption that current name was crap, and seeking others, not looking for debate about why it is crap, which seems to be what we wandered into) Bhachgen on "ATAP - Family network" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6691&page=2#post-71743 Wed, 23 May 2012 13:52:52 +0000 Bhachgen 71743@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ How about... "The People's Path Network" "Jock Tamson's Tracks" "BikeSafe" "Greenways" (if CEC hadn't already used this to mean "Bus Lane") "Cycletasmagoria" Uberuce on "ATAP - Family network" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6691&page=2#post-71741 Wed, 23 May 2012 13:23:13 +0000 Uberuce 71741@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Nearest I can do to a snappy wordsy name for something that covers the shared use no-motor-vehicles bit is Legways, but that excludes wheelchair users, so I gave up and went for acronyms that are easy to say but cover all the bases. Shared Use Path Network. Need to find out if Suppun is filth in another language. Engineless Paths? You can shoehorn in pedelecs and motorised wheelchairs if you declare that electrically powered moving devices have motors, not engines. Shorten it to Ginless and I think it sounds quite sweet, and evocative of some notional historic law that gin was forbidden to be consumed on them by the political stringpulling of the local beer breweries. And naturally I'd dress up as Neil deGrasse Tyson on their opening day and daintily sup a Sapphire'n'tonic while a chamber quartet played Rage Against The Machine's Killing In The Name Of. Wilmington's Cow on "ATAP - Family network" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6691#post-71739 Wed, 23 May 2012 13:21:47 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 71739@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ "As long as we get a reasonable linked up network that encourages more people to cycle, surely that's the main thing" Yes, which is why I said... "it really really is just the name I find a bit odd for something that is beneficial to so many{/i]" because the name may not make people aware that actually that particular network is great for starting them off riding to work. Because "[i]nor the prioritisation of leisure/pootley routes." isn't actually what it's doing - it's linking up off-road paths, many (most/all) of which can be and are used for commuting. The name really doesn't fit with the blurb. Last I'm saying on this - it's clearly another subject which is hard to get across and life's too short. wingpig on "ATAP - Family network" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6691#post-71729 Wed, 23 May 2012 12:35:34 +0000 wingpig 71729@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ At least (in this case) considering/arguing about the name is sticking to the topic invoked by the first post. "Family" could be interpreted a whole bunch of stuff including potentially putting off returning-to-or-taking-up-cycling codgers who might think they'd be getting buzzed and cut up by invincible swervey youngsters on a Family network. The North Edinburgh Path Network is nicely unflavoured. It says where and what it is without creating an impression of restriction of the intended users. The (not-legally-enforcible-whatever) "NO CYCLING" signs on the Meadows affected how people perceived the paths; a label like "Family" could easily be interpreted as exclusive as well as/instead of descriptive. crowriver on "ATAP - Family network" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6691#post-71727 Wed, 23 May 2012 12:26:18 +0000 crowriver 71727@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ I think, in a typically cyclist way, we are splitting hairs here. It reminds me of the segregation vs. vehicular cycling debate. Personally I don't have a problem with the 'family' designation nor the prioritisation of leisure/pootley routes. Twenty years ago when I was young, free, single and childless I probably would have thought very differently. As long as we get a reasonable linked up network that encourages more people to cycle, surely that's the main thing. I shall be putting my energies into pestering officials and councillors to get the priority works implemented, rather than worrying about the semantics of the marketing term needed to get 'buy in'. Wilmington's Cow on "ATAP - Family network" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6691#post-71724 Wed, 23 May 2012 12:14:12 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 71724@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ But I'd never advocate the name "Whizz through Edinburgh safely" because 'whizz' then suggests it as a route for the complete opposite spectrum of cyclists... SRD on "ATAP - Family network" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6691#post-71723 Wed, 23 May 2012 12:13:08 +0000 SRD 71723@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ @anth my last post was 'agreeing' with you. PS on "ATAP - Family network" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6691#post-71722 Wed, 23 May 2012 12:12:58 +0000 PS 71722@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ How's about the Edinburgh Cyclesafe Network? Infers it's safe for kiddies without using the F-word (because if we're all part of families then the word's redundant anyway :p ), whilst containing good vibes for the politicos. Although Cyclesafe is probably trademarked by The Times or something.... wingpig on "ATAP - Family network" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6691#post-71721 Wed, 23 May 2012 12:12:58 +0000 wingpig 71721@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ The wee schematic in the PDF just before the map corroborates the "family = leisurepootle" flavour by listing the Zoo, Cramond, the Botanics, two hilly parks and the Meadows and link-up-able entities. It reminds me of the Innertube and its "lines". The more complicated diagram further along showing major workplaces shows the danger of attempting to get all schematic about something as detailed and accidental as the layout of a city, again like the Innertube and the non-usefulness of the way it geographically misrepresented the path network. The "Edinburgh Everyone Cycle Mesh" would avoid using 'family', reflect that it would not be a true network, mention that it was in Edinburgh, avoid using "people's" in case it puts off right-wingers, would not discriminate against people with a number of wheels other than two and is still pronouncable as an acronym. Wilmington's Cow on "ATAP - Family network" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6691#post-71719 Wed, 23 May 2012 12:07:21 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 71719@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ *sigh* I can see how this became a heated debate. Innocent Path. Good for quick commuting; good for family rides. NEPN. Good for quick commuting; good for family rides. They're not mutually exclusive, and just because you don't think 'family' is a good name because it doesn't represent all who may benefit doesn't mean you think it should exclude families and only be used by fast experienced commuters. That's never been said, merely incorrectly inferred. SRD on "ATAP - Family network" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6691#post-71718 Wed, 23 May 2012 12:01:14 +0000 SRD 71718@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ ah well, then, let';s propose the name I suggested to sally in an email: the 'whizz through Edinburgh safely' network Wilmington's Cow on "ATAP - Family network" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6691#post-71717 Wed, 23 May 2012 11:58:31 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 71717@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ But I haven't said it's mis-named for either of those reasons, I've said it's mis-named because people who could use it might think it's not for them because it will not be a point-to-point route. I've never said at any point that people won't want to share the route with families. SRD on "ATAP - Family network" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6691#post-71716 Wed, 23 May 2012 11:54:11 +0000 SRD 71716@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ "I think Morningsider has hit it - it's a sell-to-the-politicians/sell-to-the-public thing." yes. I said that above. Still, there is a difference between (a) it's misnamed because technically-speaking a family network, as seen elsewhere, is about quiet neighbourhood roads etc, and (b) it's mis-named because it implies that only families with small wobbly children will cycle on it, and us (s)he-men commuters don't want to pootle with them (ick!). Wilmington's Cow on "ATAP - Family network" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6691#post-71713 Wed, 23 May 2012 11:44:12 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 71713@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ "... this discussion is beginning to feel a bit like a 1950s time warp." ? But we're not advocating that the women stay behind to clean the dishes... I think Morningsider has hit it - it's a sell-to-the-politicians/sell-to-the-public thing. I'm not sure anyone has suggested that 'family' is only mum, dad and 2 kids. But I also think that defining family to include one lone person riding to work at 8am is perhaps stretching it?