http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: 2 reservations for tandems? en Sat, 30 May 2026 22:50:00 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=7056&page=2#post-74327 Wed, 13 Jun 2012 16:14:27 +0000 kaputnik 74327@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>221 and 220 share the same bodyshell. The 221 tilts, the 220 doesn't. The only noticable difference is the bogie design, although in Virgin days one had a silve badge on front and the other a red badge, to help platform staff tell difference as they approached.</p> <p>Virgin originally ordered 4 and 5 car trains for the XC and WC franchises, wanting to run a more frequent service of small trains to replace their ancient 9-car loco hauled stock. However this backfired as the improved journey times of the modern stock caused increased demand and they filled up very quickly - 5 car units were too small on most routes and the 4s were even worse, so they took a number of the intermediate cars from some 4-car trains and inserted them in other 4-car trains to make new 5-car trains and leave over a couple of minature 2-car trains! This has changed the internal configurations to non-standard. Virgin 221s are all now 5 car, Arriva who took over the XC franchise have 4 and 5 car units and did work re-configuring the insides when they inherited them, (or Virgin WC made changes after that Arriva didn't). </p> <p>Anyway, the tilting function on the 221 is a bit of an expensive non-event as Arriva XC have locked this feature out of use but both the 220 and 221 are lumbered with the awkwardly small internal dimensions of a tilting train.</p> <p>All 220s are 4-car units. There is a train called a Class 222 which is the 220 but with a "full size" bodyshell.</p> <p>So anyway, the "Voyagers" are a good example of how NOT to order rolling stock. They also have a reputation for poor reliability in the tiliting mechanism (hence XC locking them out), the rheostatic brakes on the roof catch fire when twigs / leaves / dead birds get caught in the vents and in coastal areas sea spray can cause them to fail if it gets in. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=7056&page=2#post-74316 Wed, 13 Jun 2012 15:12:53 +0000 crowriver 74316@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>cyclists are seen as a threat to revenue</em></p> <p>And we take up 'too much space' unless the bike folds...</p> <p>@kaputnik, must have been a Class 221 'Super Voyager' I was on from the midlands as the cycle stowage was still at the back of the train and reasonably roomy, not the wardrobe sized cubicles found on the 220s...*</p> <p>* - I'm not a train spotter but I know how to consult wikipedia! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=7056&page=2#post-74312 Wed, 13 Jun 2012 14:58:19 +0000 LaidBack 74312@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>Can see that a 'normal' tandem would go over. But not sure how having 2 reservations would make any difference.</em></p> <p>Exactly. When asked if they had any stats of how many bikes (including tandems) they carried the answer was 'no'. Basically they just know that people take bikes but the more rules they make the more bike racks for cars are sold.<br /> Under the defunct GNER they actually tried to ban recumbents in an attempt to weed out 'awkward' bikes.<br /> Late trains cause fines - cyclists are seen as a threat to revenue as they faff about with their luggage and bikes ( helped by the wrong info as I too have found)<br /> I did an article of a summer holiday using bikes in Highlands in CC magazine a while back. One guard told me he didn't see why we were taking a train when the NCN1 route ran alongside line. This was with 13 year olds who were happy to cycle up to 30 miles but not all day. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=7056&page=2#post-74306 Wed, 13 Jun 2012 14:38:05 +0000 Darkerside 74306@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@SRD - included both points, thanks<br /> @fimm - I'll wander through tonight and prune for info<br /> @kaputnik et al - the ScotRail android app has 'mTicket' functionality, although only for certain routes. This is apparently a barcode type thing. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=7056&page=2#post-74302 Wed, 13 Jun 2012 14:30:46 +0000 fimm 74302@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>There's a thread on the CTC forum about train use which I find quite helpful. <a href="http://forum.ctc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=6&amp;t=27475" rel="nofollow">http://forum.ctc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=6&amp;t=27475</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=7056&page=2#post-74290 Wed, 13 Jun 2012 14:01:43 +0000 kaputnik 74290@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>I would like a proper digital ticket I could have on my phone.</p> <p>That is wide open to abuse, mobile phones are inherently non-secure.<br /> </em></p> <p>Can be made more secure through the use of a dedicated app you can download to display the ticket. No less secure than a paper ticket that anyone with half an inkling could knock together themselvs. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=7056&page=2#post-74276 Wed, 13 Jun 2012 12:57:19 +0000 SRD 74276@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@Darkerside - Discovered that my new shiny bell (bought for POP) doubles up as a handy-dandy reservation holder - I just slipped the card between the two halves of the bell. easy to read too.</p> <p>Helios definitely fits sheffieldy/horizontal racks. Haven't tried it in vertical racks, but am 99% sure it would fit. LB will know for sure. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=7056&page=2#post-74268 Wed, 13 Jun 2012 12:32:51 +0000 Darkerside 74268@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Server outage at work, so I've spent the last 45 minutes condensing mine and the combined knowledge above into a post. Potentially useful, although pretty dull until I get home and add some photos...</p> <p><a href="http://www.darkerside.org/bikestuff/trainsandbike/" rel="nofollow">http://www.darkerside.org/bikestuff/trainsandbike/</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=7056&page=2#post-74259 Wed, 13 Jun 2012 12:20:38 +0000 crowriver 74259@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Scotrail post tickets out first class for free. </p> <p>Usually if I'm travelling longer distances by train I'm either:<br /> - on a business trip so my employer is paying and they book the ticket for me.<br /> - with family/kids so I can use the railcard.</p> <p>*Weighs up pros and cons of discounts, registration administrivia, delivery/pickup hassles, etc.* I'll probably just stick to Scotrail as I'm registered, it's painless, etc. </p> <p><em>I would like a proper digital ticket I could have on my phone.</em></p> <p>That is wide open to abuse, mobile phones are inherently non-secure. </p> <p>I recall a few years ago some mysterious transactions on my credit card, mainly in the north east of England where I rarely travel and certainly not on the dates of the transactions. Anyway I reported to the card fraud dept., they cancelled my card and didn't charge me for those payments. Clearly someone had got hold of my details, and I surmised that it may have been because I topped up my pay as you go mobile on the train the month before using that card. I wasn't brandishing the card so no shoulder surfing. Someone must have intercepted the data as it was sent and used the details.</p> <p>So now I top up from home and I switch bluetooth off when travelling... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=7056&page=2#post-74258 Wed, 13 Jun 2012 12:20:20 +0000 chdot 74258@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"I would like a proper digital ticket I could have on my phone"</p> <p>Coming to iOS in September (various US ticket issuers signed up).</p> <p>Presumably UK will join in - and other mobile platforms will do similar(?)</p> <p><a href="http://www.apple.com/uk/ios/ios6/#passbook" rel="nofollow">http://www.apple.com/uk/ios/ios6/#passbook</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=7056&page=2#post-74251 Wed, 13 Jun 2012 12:07:28 +0000 kaputnik 74251@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>It's very annoying that East coast will no longer post tickets in normal post. </em></p> <p>You only get a first class (£1) option if (I think) you are booking more than a week in advance. You can't get it if you are changing a ticket, you are forced into taking a £5 hit for special delivery for that, or going to the station to make the transaction. You can't even pick up the rescheduled ticket from the machine.</p> <p>I wonder what happens if you arrive at Waverley 15 minutes before due to depart and the fastticket machines are down. I've heard of people getting rough treatment from EC guards due to lost tickets or machines not printing tickets, even when they have proof of purchase of ticket, email of reservations printed out etc.</p> <p>EC have a "print your own" facility for some tickets, but then you need to carry your birth certificate, NI card, blod type, mother's maiden name, name of first pet etc. to prove it is your reservation.</p> <p>I would like a proper digital ticket I could have on my phone. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=7056#post-74246 Wed, 13 Jun 2012 11:55:11 +0000 chdot 74246@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Sent to EC this morning</p> <p>"</p> <p>Subject: 2 reservations for tandems? « CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum</p> <p>This might interest</p> <p><a href="http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=7056" rel="nofollow">http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=7056</a></p> <p>Generally people with bikes are very happy with EC - and the fact that you can book bikes on-line is appreciated. </p> <p>The need for two tickets for a tandem is NOT bookable on-line but obviously won't affect many people and maybe difficult to change on website. </p> <p>In practice in might be simpler to just have one reservation even for tandems. </p> <p>Cheers,</p> <p>"</p> <p>Reply -</p> <p>"<br /> Thanks for your email. </p> <p>I will feed this back to our commercial and marketing teams re booking reservations for tandems. </p> <p>Kind Regards</p> <p>" </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=7056#post-74243 Wed, 13 Jun 2012 11:51:10 +0000 chdot 74243@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"Have not booked via East Coast site"</p> <p>If going EC you usually get an on-line discount via their site. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=7056#post-74240 Wed, 13 Jun 2012 11:33:23 +0000 crowriver 74240@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I normally book my tickets through the Scotrail web site, then get them posted out first class: usually arrive the next day. This is not an option if you book less than a week in advance (maybe the same with East Coast?) and it's the FastTicket machine at Waverley. Only snag is that you can't book cycle reservations online, you have to phone up and they post them out to you.</p> <p>Have not booked via East Coast site but would consider in future if taking a full sized bike or tandem. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=7056#post-74237 Wed, 13 Jun 2012 11:11:07 +0000 cb 74237@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"The might of Google clearly beats their internal search. Last para of <a href="http://www.eastcoast.co.uk/miscellaneous-pages/faq/?faq=45" rel="nofollow">http://www.eastcoast.co.uk/miscellaneous-pages/faq/?faq=45</a><br /> "</p> <p>That text also appears here:<br /> <a href="http://www.eastcoast.co.uk/help/">http://www.eastcoast.co.uk/help/</a></p> <p>...in the On Board section. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=7056#post-74233 Wed, 13 Jun 2012 10:56:28 +0000 SRD 74233@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>oh, forgot to mention one bad thing on return, train pulled into platform 9, which meant I had to lug fairly heavily laden bike up stairs to the bridge. Bloke helped me up last bit. It's not that the bike is heavy, but I'm not tall enough to lift it high enough easily. luckily the freight elevator took me down to by the taxi rank and had plenty of room for bike in it. (there was a small lift on platform 9, but it appeared to need staff to operate, and no one around). </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=7056#post-74231 Wed, 13 Jun 2012 10:55:43 +0000 Darkerside 74231@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The might of Google clearly beats their internal search. Last para of <a href="http://www.eastcoast.co.uk/miscellaneous-pages/faq/?faq=45" rel="nofollow">http://www.eastcoast.co.uk/miscellaneous-pages/faq/?faq=45</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=7056#post-74224 Wed, 13 Jun 2012 10:50:43 +0000 chdot 74224@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"<br /> Reservations are compulsory but free of charge. Four cycle spaces per train. Tandems can be conveyed subject to length restrictions. Loading restrictions apply at some stations with short platforms, see website for full details.</p> <p>"</p> <p><a href="http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/passenger_services/cyclists/2012CyclingbyTrain.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/passenger_services/cyclists/2012CyclingbyTrain.pdf</a></p> <p>Search on EC web site didn't find "tandem". </p> <p>Don't know if "subject to length restrictions" means normal length tandems aren't 'allowed' in vertical hanging vans(?) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=7056#post-74220 Wed, 13 Jun 2012 10:43:07 +0000 steveo 74220@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I used to know the three letter codes for all the stations on the WCML and the larger stations elsewhere, most the Cross country route and an alarming number of tiny little stations! Fortunately this data is beginning to fade and I'm becoming a little more normal... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=7056#post-74216 Wed, 13 Jun 2012 10:34:33 +0000 Darkerside 74216@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Fair enough. My usual ticket buying tactic (blimey, this is dull) is to book via East Coast using saved credit card, add the trips straight into my phone/google calendar with the reference tagged after the stations [GLC-DHM (G1234567)], then turn up ten mins early on the day to grab the tickets. Dead easy, but I could see it being a chore if it was daily rather than roughly fortnightly.</p> <p>As an aside, one day I will conduct a spectacular deed using my knowledge of station three letter codes. I'm just waiting on the right circumstances. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=7056#post-74214 Wed, 13 Jun 2012 10:33:03 +0000 steveo 74214@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The amount of "lost" tickets we had to deal with at Trainline while I was there was ridiculous. I can see why they do it tbh, due to the way the system is set up if a ticket goes missing the issuing agency has to purchase new tickets on behalf of the customer and if/when the original ones turned up the refund was offset against the new ones. </p> <p>When I worked at Trainline it was part of VT so if the customer bought a Virgin ticket on a Virgin train and was travelling from a Virgin station we could reissue the cheap Virgin ticket. If not we had to pay for a "walk on" ticket which at the most extreme could be a couple of hundred pounds more than the customer paid and we could be expect to be reimbursed. </p> <p>Until train tickets can be modernised they are valuable bits of paper and I can understand why a company would want to prove they got into the customers hands. Its not great for the customer though. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=7056#post-74212 Wed, 13 Jun 2012 10:27:23 +0000 SRD 74212@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I like to know that I have my tickets and bike reservations in hand when I leave the house. Hate having to remember which card I used to buy them and find printout with silly code on it, especially if rushing for a train. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=7056#post-74211 Wed, 13 Jun 2012 10:25:42 +0000 Darkerside 74211@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Really? I was intrigued whether anyone ever used that service as the pick up in station option works so well (and leaves me with no opportunity to lose the tickets beforehand). </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=7056#post-74206 Wed, 13 Jun 2012 09:58:33 +0000 SRD 74206@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>It's very annoying that East coast will no longer post tickets in normal post. You have to either collect in station or pay for courier/spec delivery (£5). </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=7056#post-74205 Wed, 13 Jun 2012 09:56:12 +0000 kaputnik 74205@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>Also the only line I know of with request stops</em></p> <p>There's a few on some of the West Coast / Far North lines. Corrour of Trainspotting fame jumps to mind.</p> <p><em>Have Northern Rail got any stock under 300 years old?</em></p> <p>In defence of older stock, some of it is much better for cycle provision than its newer siblings!</p> <p>Because the trains never turn around, you can tell which end the bike compartment will be at so long as you know what sort of train is coming. In Edinburgh, electric is always at the east end and diesel at the west end of Platform. Just find the platform sign for "wait here for coach B" and you'll be closest to the bike wagon. At Kings Cross, bikes at south end on electric and north end on diesel.</p> <p>Or to put it another way, heading up (to London) the bikes are at the back of the train on diesel and front on electric. And vice versa.</p> <p>I had a narrow escape recently when the ticket I had bought online and an 99.9% sure I made seat and bike reservation with did not print out at the station with any reservations. I certainly had reservations heading north on the return trip. Explained to platform staff who said speak to guard, friendly guy on platform warmed the very surly guard up for me, who just shrugged his shoulders and said I'd have to wait and see what was in the compartment and what the reservations were like when train arrived. Fortunately for me there was space and no reservations getting on further down the line, so with a sigh and a shrug he let me on. I said thanks and smiled anyway, because I guess he gets that sort of thing all the time and thought I was pulling a fast one. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=7056#post-74190 Wed, 13 Jun 2012 09:25:54 +0000 SRD 74190@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>One the way back with a friendlier/helpful guard I asked about the two reservations thing. He said yes in theory you need two, but then agreed that you can't reserve them online. Didn't seem fussed. Explained that there is a yellow line around the back of the racks, and as long as the bikes clear that it is fine - Helios just on the line. Can see that a 'normal' tandem would go over. But not sure how having 2 reservations would make any difference. This was on the 'usual' train with three Sheffields on one side and two on the other. (which according to K'niks post above makes it a Class 91s (IC225)) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=7056#post-74103 Tue, 12 Jun 2012 19:24:25 +0000 gembo 74103@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I went down recently and it was vertical hangers both times with three hangers, fine on way down, two bikes and fine-ish on way back as four bikes. last time on GNER there were horizontal spaces for at least twelve bikes - luxury </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=7056#post-74098 Tue, 12 Jun 2012 18:59:00 +0000 SRD 74098@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@fimm Durham staff always fab. Mr SRD commuted for 2 years always by bike, they were always great. Ditto when we visited as family (also by bike). Best station staff, even under stress. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=7056#post-74089 Tue, 12 Jun 2012 16:00:26 +0000 crowriver 74089@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The advice I received from train staff was to be up and ready and in the coach adjacent to the guard's van well before the train arrived at the station. Otherwise you bike might get left on the train with you on the platform, or you can hold up everyone else... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=7056#post-74085 Tue, 12 Jun 2012 15:42:30 +0000 fimm 74085@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I have to say that the platform staff at Durham were very helpful when we arrived with 2 conventional bikes that had been booked on well in advance - the one man informed the train crew "there's two bikes to go on, they have reservations" no problems. Getting off at Edinbrugh could have been an issue as we were in coach B at the other end of the train and were still there when the "we are now approaching Edinburgh" announcement came on and everyone stood up... fortunately the train was terminating at Edinburgh and we just went down the platform but another time I would make sure I started going down the train well before we got to Edinburgh. </p>