http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: Why can't cyclist use the Western Approach Road? en Thu, 09 Apr 2026 07:26:27 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=7133&page=2#post-372038 Fri, 01 Dec 2023 10:23:33 +0000 SRD 372038@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>my mistake - didn't realise that post from Crowriver was ancient history. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=7133&page=2#post-372037 Fri, 01 Dec 2023 10:09:40 +0000 SRD 372037@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Which ones have been removed? I was particularly thinking about the south bound lane by the informatics/the mosque. Have the north bound ones been removed? [not strictly Buccleuch st]</p> <p>It was mainly the south bound lanes where I repeatedly experienced aggro or observed the lane being blocked and I've not experienced/seen that in a long time. </p> <p>(I do cycle south along here every few months, but walk past / across quite frequently on week days). </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=7133&page=2#post-372036 Fri, 01 Dec 2023 09:57:03 +0000 Frenchy 372036@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>Not scientific but have been thinking that the obstruction of the lanes on Buccleuch street is much less than it used to be.</em></p> <p>Even when the bollards have been removed? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=7133&page=2#post-372034 Fri, 01 Dec 2023 09:01:06 +0000 SRD 372034@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"Blackspots include outside the supermarket on Causewayside and beside the Informatics building on Buccleuch Street."</p> <p>Not scientific but have been thinking that the obstruction of the lanes on Buccleuch street is much less than it used to be. noticed this a few months ago and have been checking it out whenever I pass through. possibly worse at other times of the day but daytime obstruction seems to have dropped. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=7133&page=2#post-372033 Fri, 01 Dec 2023 01:05:15 +0000 chdot 372033@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>“</p> <p>What were the development costs associated with the proposed Western Relief Road, up to the point of cancellation, upgraded to today’s prices?</p> <p>The proposed Western Relief Road was cancelled in 1986 and it is difficult to access detailed records. It is not, therefore, possible to distinguish development from other costs. However,the following total project costs were incurred:</p> <p>Development, construction, compensation costs etc: </p> <p>In current prices £6.52 million*</p> <p>“</p> <p>24 February 2005</p> <p>P35</p> <p><a href="https://democracy.edinburgh.gov.uk/Data/City%20of%20Edinburgh%20Council/20050407/Agenda/previous_minute_of_240205.pdf" rel="nofollow">https://democracy.edinburgh.gov.uk/Data/City%20of%20Edinburgh%20Council/20050407/Agenda/previous_minute_of_240205.pdf</a></p> <p>Suspect high proportion was for “compensation” of cancelled contract - it was paid over <em>many</em> subsequent years </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=7133&page=2#post-372027 Thu, 30 Nov 2023 17:42:14 +0000 Arellcat 372027@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>And:</p> <p><a href="https://scottishroadscast.podbean.com/e/14-edinburgh-s-city-centre-motorway-struggle/" rel="nofollow">https://scottishroadscast.podbean.com/e/14-edinburgh-s-city-centre-motorway-struggle/</a></p> <p>(is a good episode to listen to!) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=7133&page=2#post-372026 Thu, 30 Nov 2023 17:32:52 +0000 chdot 372026@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>“Why can't cyclist use the Western Approach Road?“</p> <p>Remains a good question. </p> <p><em>Could</em> have been SO much worse!</p> <p>“</p> <p>Mr Darling became transport convener when Labour regained control of Lothian in 1986, which put him right at the heart of what had been a long-running battle over the proposed Western Relief Road, a bypass for Corstorphine.</p> <p>…</p> <p>“When we got elected in 1986, the contracts had been signed the day before the 
election and we ripped them up the day after the election, so it was never built.</p> <p>“If we hadn’t stopped it, the middle of Edinburgh would have been a completely different place from what it is today. It would have been destroyed by these maniacs who wanted to build a stilted-up motorway as the way of the future.”</p> <p>“ </p> <p><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20231130163406/https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/politics/alistair-darling-looks-back-at-his-career-884558" rel="nofollow">https://web.archive.org/web/20231130163406/https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/politics/alistair-darling-looks-back-at-his-career-884558</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=7133&page=2#post-74940 Mon, 18 Jun 2012 15:41:11 +0000 crowriver 74940@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Folk are parking all over the QBC anyway, regardless of where the parking bays are. Or maybe they're "loading" without their hazard lights on? Blackspots include outside the supermarket on Causewayside and beside the Informatics building on Buccleuch Street. Both areas supposedly already subject to parking and loading restrictions, so how extending those by a couple of hours either way is going to help I don't know.</p> <p>Will there be any enforcement to go along with the so-called restrictions? Otherwise it's just white paint and red chips... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=7133&page=2#post-74936 Mon, 18 Jun 2012 15:28:52 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 74936@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Oh, and the 'existing bike lane' heading west at the start of Melville Drive... Has been removed.</p> <p>Keep meanign to cycle the route and film just what it will mean for cyclists in Edinburgh. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=7133&page=2#post-74934 Mon, 18 Jun 2012 15:25:32 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 74934@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>It's intertesting looking at the original mpa of the QBC and seeing the places they are putting in new bike lanes. Side by side with where new, all-day, parking bays are being put in. In the same place.</p> <p><a href="http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/download/downloads/id/2699/consultation_leaflet">Page 2 of this document</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=7133&page=2#post-74926 Mon, 18 Jun 2012 15:13:03 +0000 cc 74926@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>not removing any parking bays, naturally. </em></p> <p>They might even add *extra* parking spaces when they make a QBC, like they did on Mayfield Road. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=7133&page=2#post-74925 Mon, 18 Jun 2012 15:11:23 +0000 Arellcat 74925@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@crowriver: yes, I was thinking 'eastbound' but wrote 'east' instead of 'west'. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=7133&page=2#post-74923 Mon, 18 Jun 2012 15:05:13 +0000 crowriver 74923@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>Imagine if the Scottish Government cancelled plans for a single major roads project and instead allocated the funds to each of the four big Scottish cities for the creation of high quality cycling infrastructure. It would totally transform travel in these areas for good. All for the cost of one mid-sized bypass.</em></p> <p>I can imagine it, so can you.<br /> Apparently neither Keith Brown nor Transport Scotland can.</p> <p>Instead cycling is always something to get around to after all the money has been allocated to 'strategic traffic' projects. Oh, here's a few bawbees for your local cooncil to match fund a shared use path with plenty of chicanes, or slap a bit of paint on murder highway central, not removing any parking bays, naturally. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=7133&page=2#post-74922 Mon, 18 Jun 2012 15:01:14 +0000 crowriver 74922@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>Cycling from the east side of the city to Waverley for example can be a complete nightmare on a bicycle</em></p> <p>I presume you mean the <em>west</em> side of the city? From the east you can use <a href="http://goo.gl/maps/BTMP">Regent Road</a>, which is quiet, fairly smooth, straight and wide.</p> <p>@cb, oh really? I thought it was more about this:</p> <p>"The scheme is needed to:<br /> Improve the operational performance, level service and safety on the A68<br /> <strong>Improve and increase the number of overtaking opportunities</strong><br /> Incorporate the needs of cyclist and pedestrians<br /> <strong>Maintain the asset value of the A68</strong><br /> Mitigate environmental impacts of works and to achieve good value for money" </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=7133&page=2#post-74921 Mon, 18 Jun 2012 14:59:38 +0000 Morningsider 74921@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>crowriver - it's an amazing though, isn't it. Imagine if the Scottish Government cancelled plans for a single major roads project and instead allocated the funds to each of the four big Scottish cities for the creation of high quality cycling infrastructure. It would totally transform travel in these areas for good. All for the cost of one mid-sized bypass. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=7133&page=2#post-74918 Mon, 18 Jun 2012 14:44:36 +0000 cb 74918@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Not so fast crowriver. This road project...</p> <p><a href="http://www.transportscotland.gov.uk/road/projects/a68-south-soutra-to-oxton-project">http://www.transportscotland.gov.uk/road/projects/a68-south-soutra-to-oxton-project</a></p> <p>...will, "Incorporate the needs of cyclist and pedestrians" </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=7133&page=2#post-74915 Mon, 18 Jun 2012 14:35:56 +0000 Arellcat 74915@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@Kaputnik: 'Strategic' means having the authority to set out what <em>should</em> happen, be produced or reported upon, without any of that tedious mucking about with project managers, contractors and performance information.</p> <p>'Tactical' is an early 2000s buzzword to be applied to generalist consumer goods that have been souped up through aggressive appearance (machined aluminium with strategically-placed rubbery hand grips) and Bear Grylls-style marketing for helping the hardened few survive the zombopocalypse.</p> <p>I think the case for a cycle expressway along the West Approach Road is the same for why cars get to use it: it's an expressway with few sets of traffic lights and lets you get more quickly to Useful Places, such as the middle of town. Except unlike cars, bicycles don't add greatly to congestion and unlike buses, don't destroy the tarmac. Cycling from the west side of the city to Waverley for example can be a complete nightmare on a bicycle because the New Town is (still) a mess of impenetrable roadworks and jam-packed buses; and the alternative involves hiking up around the Castle, or down into the Grassmarket (and out again), or taking a big diversion through the Meadows. The solution is clearly to sort out a fast way of getting into town, and then a fast way of getting across the middle - about which for non-motorised transport CEC isn't terribly bothered. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=7133&page=2#post-74914 Mon, 18 Jun 2012 14:35:21 +0000 crowriver 74914@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>It is quite telling when you browse the Transport Scotland web site. </p> <p>Look at the <a href="http://www.transportscotland.gov.uk/road/projects">'Road projects'</a> section and there are future plans and imminent/ongoing projects coming out of their ears. Only a few 'completed'/past tense projects. Check out the pull-down menu on the right for the full list, including the Dalry bypass.</p> <p>Then compare that to the <a href="http://www.transportscotland.gov.uk/road/sustainability/Cycling-and-Walking/projects">Cycling projects</a> section and it is ALL 'completed'/past tense projects. Nothing in the pipeline. At all. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=7133&page=2#post-74911 Mon, 18 Jun 2012 14:26:39 +0000 crowriver 74911@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@Morningsider, I had guessed that it was a substitute for 'long distance'. I was just wondering why exactly they use such a term. </p> <p>I suppose if they just came clean and said it was to make it easier for drivers from Irvine and further afield to commute into Glasgow ("improved economic and employment opportunities") /get to the airport for holiday flights ("better journey time reliability") without having to go via Paisley then it might be more of a struggle to justify the cost. </p> <p>Imagine if they planned to spend £28 million on cycling infrastructure instead... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=7133&page=2#post-74909 Mon, 18 Jun 2012 14:24:26 +0000 kaputnik 74909@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>Politicians and civil servnts love the word strategic - it sounds important without actually meaning anything.</em></p> <p>They love it at our work too. I think bicycles would be considered "tactical" traffic (a quick, cheap fix, avoided by management, to be gotten rid of when we move to "strategic" utopia, but ultimately ends up becoming the norm for conveniences' sake.) </p> <p>Strategic generally means very expensive, takes 5 years to put in, runs over budget, never functions as intended and even before it is implements you already have to start planning for its replacement as it is clear it will not suffice. Yes it would seem that roads and cars really are "strategic" traffic! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=7133#post-74906 Mon, 18 Jun 2012 14:20:30 +0000 kaputnik 74906@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>It is interesting that cycles seem to be banned from the WAR in same sentence banning commercial vehicles because of weight restrictions. There is oodles of room on the old CR mainline section between Lothian Road and Dundee Street to put in a segregated, bi-direction cycle lane. It used to cope admirably with 6 tracks plus some sidings when it was a railway.</p> <p>The one-way section between Roseburn Street and Dalry was 2 different sections of old railway alignment and narrower. However still plenty of room along the bit from Roseburn Street before it curves across Dalry Road, which is the rather odd waiting bay that always seems full of snoozing coach or lorry drivers (I thought coaches were banned?!).</p> <p>Re-intating the Haymarket Viaduct would be amazing, but realistically is now hardly likely, as a new viaduct would be required where embankment was removed to create the "Sauchiebank" industrial estate and also where tramwork has eaten into embankment. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=7133#post-74902 Mon, 18 Jun 2012 14:06:54 +0000 cc 74902@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>To heck with "allowing" bikes, let's ban motor traffic from it and make it <em>only</em> for bikes. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=7133#post-74900 Mon, 18 Jun 2012 13:54:52 +0000 Morningsider 74900@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>crowriver - "strategic traffic" is civil servantese for long distance traffic. Politicians and civil servnts love the word strategic - it sounds important without actually meaning anything. Who would want to write a "transport plan" when you could write a "strategic transport plan" - so much more important sounding. Generally, I ignore the word strategic when reading Government documents. This gives you a better idea of what they are actually talking about. </p> <p>In this case, strategic traffic is simply traffic - i.e. the bypass will reduce the amount of traffic passing through Dalry (not the same as reducing the amount of traffic though). </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=7133#post-74889 Mon, 18 Jun 2012 13:16:36 +0000 cb 74889@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Arellcat: "cb, check out the discussion I linked to earlier"</p> <p>Thanks, although I don't think I'm any the wiser as to why the weight limit is there. (It seems to be to exclude commercial traffic, but not sure why that is the case).</p> <p>That SABRE thread is quite interesting though. It's kind of the opposite of this thread with lots of folk commenting how great it is that Edinburgh has at least one car friendly road.</p> <p>There seems to even be a view that it is some kind of well kept secret.</p> <p>My favourite was from Paul who said:<br /> "It remains a nice secret short cut for those in the know."</p> <p>But then in the next sentence says, "I've yet to drive it" and adds a Sad Face. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=7133#post-74883 Mon, 18 Jun 2012 12:36:35 +0000 crowriver 74883@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The site of what is now the West Approach Road in the 1950s:</p> <p><a href="http://www.edinphoto.org.uk/1_edin_t/1_edinburgh_transport_railways_rce095b_dalry_road_depot.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.edinphoto.org.uk/1_edin_t/1_edinburgh_transport_railways_rce095b_dalry_road_depot.htm</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=7133#post-74881 Mon, 18 Jun 2012 12:18:13 +0000 crowriver 74881@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"When it opens, the Bypass will encourage improved economic and employment opportunities through better journey time reliability for motorists and businesses along the length of the A737."</p> <p>Yeah right. That's really worth a £28 million bung to the construction business, consultants, etc. </p> <p>"On completion, the Dalry Bypass will help separate local from strategic traffic and lead to improved safety for both rural road users and local communities."</p> <p>What is 'strategic traffic'? Is that why the SNP won't get serious about funding cycle infrastructure?</p> <p>The SNP - getting Scotland motoring. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=7133#post-74880 Mon, 18 Jun 2012 12:15:18 +0000 crowriver 74880@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>You can see it in the background of this wonderful 1959 shot of a streamlined steam train:</p> <p><a href="http://www.railbrit.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete.php?id=28548" rel="nofollow">http://www.railbrit.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete.php?id=28548</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=7133#post-74878 Mon, 18 Jun 2012 12:10:41 +0000 Arellcat 74878@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>cb, check out the discussion I linked to earlier:</p> <p><a href="http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=7133#post-74807">SABRE forum</a></p> <p>"...these weight limits apply specifically to commercial vehicles ... and are not intended to exclude any passenger cars" which might well be over 1.5 tonnes.</p> <p>I do have a picture or two of the former big bridge over the Edinburgh-Glasgow railway, although I'd probably be breaking copyright by posting it. The Duff Street bridge abutments are still in place though - I keep meaning to take a wander up there to have a look. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=7133#post-74877 Mon, 18 Jun 2012 12:08:52 +0000 chdot 74877@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"<br /> Transport Scotland (@transcotland)</p> <p>18/06/2012 11:46</p> <p>NEWS: Route for Dalry Bypass to go on display bit.ly/L8hPZp</p> <p>"</p> <p>OK, different Dalry. </p> <p>Still, lotsamoney. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=7133#post-74876 Mon, 18 Jun 2012 11:41:56 +0000 cb 74876@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"Well there used to be - "</p> <p>As late as the 70s? Shame the bridge was removed.</p> <p>Any pics anywhere? </p>