http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: Broomhouse Road Cycle Path en Sun, 28 Jun 2026 04:06:21 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=7292&page=2#post-97251 Thu, 17 Jan 2013 16:30:31 +0000 Snowy 97251@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@kaputnik, do you mean the example on the slope from Edin Park rail station down to the underpass? I noticed this morning it was a different sort - ironically - both the cycle side and the pedestrian side both seem to have flat-top ridges and be spaced further apart, when compared to the narrow and round-ridged ones on the Broomhouse path.<br /> So maybe if they took half of these ones, and swapped them with half of another set, you'd have two 'correct' implementations.....anyone got a pickaxe? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=7292#post-97247 Thu, 17 Jan 2013 15:31:45 +0000 kaputnik 97247@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@slowcoach I think then what has happened is that they have used the wrong surface for BOTH sides of the rumble strips. The slabs they have used (narrow width between the ribs) are the "pedestrian warning tactile strategic cordurouy flags" (whatever) which should be used on footways to indicate a hazard to the blind or partially sighted (e.g. steps, a path crossing it).</p> <p>The slabs the should have used have the wider, shallower bars set 70mm apart. These are the ones in the photos from WIngpig and myself above, and only one solitary example exists on the Broomhouse path. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=7292#post-97240 Thu, 17 Jan 2013 15:14:15 +0000 Arellcat 97240@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I used the Broomhouse path yesterday, and made a point of riding over the tramline pattern slabs. I didn't expect my bike to dodge quite so excitedly as my wide spiky tyres sought equilibrium. Previously I rode over them in the dry with narrow slicks and ne'er a problem.</p> <p>But what on earth are you meant to do once you get to the Stenhouse end? They really haven't thought about it at all. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=7292#post-97239 Thu, 17 Jan 2013 15:07:21 +0000 AKen 97239@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>'This arrangement was chosen because it was felt the rumble effect created by the transverse pattern<br /> would deter cyclists from entering on the pedestrian side.'</em></p> <p>It quite enjoy the 'rumble effect' going over the pedestrian side. Compared to some of the surfaces people cycle on it's almost snooker-table smooth. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=7292#post-97234 Thu, 17 Jan 2013 14:22:59 +0000 slowcoach 97234@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>kaputnik - I was trying to be sarcastic when I said 'clear now'.</p> <p>The same surface <strong>should</strong> be used for the cyclist side and the pedestrian side of Segregated Shared Cycle Track/Footways. The tactile surface is 'raised, flat-topped bars, each 5mm (±0.5mm) high, 30mm wide, and spaced 70mm apart' (ie 100mm from centre of one bar to the next). 'On the pedestrian side, the surface should be installed with the bars running transversely across the direction of travel' and is called ladder pattern. 'On the cyclist side, the surface should be laid with the bars running in the direction of travel' and is called tramline pattern.<br /> 'This arrangement was chosen because it was felt the rumble effect created by the transverse pattern<br /> would deter cyclists from entering on the pedestrian side.'</p> <p>'Corduroy Hazard Warning Surface' 'bars are 6mm (± 0.5mm) high, 20mm wide and spaced 50mm from the centre of one bar to the centre of the next'(ie spaced 30mm apart) may be at the end of pedestrian-only paths before they join shared-use paths, but should not be on shared-use paths, unless maybe it leads to a level crossing or light rapid transit (LRT) platforms.</p> <p>Other tactile surfaces are Lozenge and Blister, which has different patterns for off-road rail platforms and for pedestrian crossings, where it also has different colours - red for zebras or signal controlled crossings and not red for uncontrolled crossings. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=7292#post-97214 Thu, 17 Jan 2013 13:09:04 +0000 chdot 97214@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"<br /> South West Team (@southwest_team)<br /> 17/01/2013 12:06<br /> @CyclingEdin @nelly0168 can't take credit for this one, its the good work of Roads Services. I'll pass your thanks to them tho. :-) ^G</p> <p>" </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=7292#post-97146 Wed, 16 Jan 2013 21:56:16 +0000 Nelly 97146@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I should also point out that the broomhouse path had been gritted this evening - from makro to almost stenhouse.</p> <p>Good going, as its not on the list to be done. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=7292#post-97144 Wed, 16 Jan 2013 20:50:11 +0000 chdot 97144@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"<br /> Interesting that most of this decorative junk doesn't apply if you have a shared path like the NEPN. So the very act of creating a segregated path requires a forest of signs, special surfaces and poorly construed junctions to satisfy the desktop regulations.</p> <p>"</p> <p>The problem now is that this is the way it's been done/the way it is. </p> <p>Presumably the segregation was done as part of the tram scheme 'planning', by people who probably didn't work for CEC and probably don't now. </p> <p>I get the impression that CEC is reluctant to make the changes to make it shared use, to avoid confusing existing users. </p> <p>It seems possible that they will remove some of the tiles, which <em>might</em> reduce the 'problem'.</p> <p>Of course "Streetscape" has to agree and disability groups have to be consulted. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=7292#post-97139 Wed, 16 Jan 2013 19:40:49 +0000 kaputnik 97139@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Aha! Thanks Slowcoach. I now know that the tactile surface we loath is the "Cordurouy Hazard Warning Surface" and the little ridge in the middle is the "Central Delineator Strip".</p> <p><em>5.1 Purpose<br /> - The purpose of the tactile surface used in conjunction with a segregated shared cycle<br /> track/footway is to advise visually impaired people of the correct side to enter.<br /> - The purpose of the central delineator strip is to help visually impaired pedestrians keep to<br /> the pedestrian side.</em></p> <p>The specifications should be that the "delineator strip" is 150mm wide, 12-20mm proud and narrows a width at the top of 50mm.</p> <p>The ribs on the "tramlines" (cyclist's side of the cordurouy) should be 30mm wide and 70mm apart. Those of the "transverse" (pedestrian's side) should be 20mm wide and 50mm apart. Therefore the same slabs <strong>are not</strong> be suitable for both sides. Broomhouse Path clearly does use the same slaps for both sides therefore this suggests it is non-regulation.</p> <p>More interestingly;</p> <p>"<em>The central delineator strip should run the entire length of the route, creating a 'kerb' between the designated pedestrian side and the designated cyclist side... ...A painted white line is <strong>not adequate</strong> for this purpose as it will not be detected by visually impaired pedestrians</em>."</p> <p>According to the regulations, therefore, the Broomhouse Path is further non-compliant.</p> <p>On the whole though, those guidelines are 76 pages of evidence that our traffic engineers think that pedestrians and cyclists interact like cars and need treated as such, being fenced apart by walls of paint, markings rumble-strips etc. Interesting that most of this decorative junk doesn't apply if you have a shared path like the NEPN. So the very act of creating a segregated path requires a forest of signs, special surfaces and poorly construed junctions to satisfy the desktop regulations. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=7292#post-97131 Wed, 16 Jan 2013 18:57:40 +0000 slowcoach 97131@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>There is detailed guidance about this at <a href="https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/3622/tactile-pavement.pdf" rel="nofollow">https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/3622/tactile-pavement.pdf</a> </p> <p>In recent news there has been a "High Court ruling that the London Borough of Newham acted unlawfully by developing its own tactile paving guidance that contradicts the DfT’s." </p> <p>But other guidance, also from the DfT, questions its earlier guidance eg </p> <p><a href="http://assets.dft.gov.uk/publications/ltn-01-12/shared-use-routes-for-pedestrians-and-cyclists.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://assets.dft.gov.uk/publications/ltn-01-12/shared-use-routes-for-pedestrians-and-cyclists.pdf</a></p> <p>Hope that is clear now. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=7292#post-97106 Wed, 16 Jan 2013 15:25:33 +0000 kaputnik 97106@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I hope that the blind and partially sighted are more aware of the intricacies of tactile paving slab legislastion than I!</p> <p>Sounds like a case of replacing it with the proper stuff then. They can then consider doing it on all other segregated "shared" paths too! Every 25m ought to do it. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=7292#post-97102 Wed, 16 Jan 2013 15:00:18 +0000 Nelly 97102@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Arellcat, that is exactly what the council chappie told me via email a while back.</p> <p>however.......I cant fathom how a partially sighted person (having safely negotiated their way from the Tram to the path, and on to the 'pedestrian' side) then ensures their safety between tactile slabbed areas, unless the council intend also placing some tactile barrier down the middle of the path?</p> <p>Or am I overthinking this ? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=7292#post-97093 Wed, 16 Jan 2013 14:28:04 +0000 Arellcat 97093@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>But that risks unsighted pedestrians being unable to properly differentiate between the cycle path and the footpath. The direction, pattern and tactility of the slabs is all you have if you can't see. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=7292#post-97082 Wed, 16 Jan 2013 13:23:32 +0000 kaputnik 97082@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Worth emailing. A simple fix would be to rotate the tactile slabs around so they all provide rumble-strip effect and there are no wheel gutters. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=7292#post-97070 Wed, 16 Jan 2013 11:22:40 +0000 chdot 97070@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>From other thread -</p> <p>"</p> <p>The tactiles were put in by the 'tram' people.</p> <p>The path has not been adopted by CEC.</p> <p>Tram responsibility is now completely a CEC responsibility...</p> <p>The path 'should' be adopted later this year -</p> <p>"We are planning to undertake remedial works on the path parallel to the railway/tram with a view to getting this adopted once the tram works are substantially complete."</p> <p>If you have helpful suggestions might be worth sending them to <a href="mailto:cycling@edinburgh.gov.uk">cycling@edinburgh.gov.uk</a> perhaps with Broomhouse Path in the subject line.</p> <p>"</p> <p><a href="http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9230&amp;page=4#post-97069" rel="nofollow">http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9230&amp;page=4#post-97069</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=7292#post-86585 Thu, 04 Oct 2012 23:49:07 +0000 DaveC 86585@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>yep I cycled to the gyle via this route and the ped/cycle crossing lights now back on. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=7292#post-86560 Thu, 04 Oct 2012 20:05:07 +0000 gembo 86560@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Fixed this evening </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=7292#post-86534 Thu, 04 Oct 2012 10:59:16 +0000 Uberuce 86534@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Still out this morning at ~6.30. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=7292#post-86516 Thu, 04 Oct 2012 10:17:18 +0000 kaputnik 86516@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The roadworks looked like they'd be there for a while. Didn't go that way yesterday or this morning, will inspect on way home tonight. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=7292#post-86512 Thu, 04 Oct 2012 09:47:12 +0000 AKen 86512@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Considering that this must be a main route to school for (possibly) hundreds of kids then it's a *very* shocking oversight. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=7292#post-86426 Wed, 03 Oct 2012 00:38:31 +0000 kaputnik 86426@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The Toucan crossing at Broomhouse Road (to the south of Forrester / St. Augustine's schools) is currently turned off as there is a set of temporary traffic lights and one-way traffic in operation 20m further down the road.</p> <p>This means that pedestrians and cyclists have no lights to help them cross the road and are on their own, having to either squeeze in between the light cycle or just brazenly try and cross the fast-moving traffic off the roundabout.</p> <p>Pretty shocking oversight for safety. I've Clarenced it. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=7292#post-79119 Mon, 23 Jul 2012 23:02:34 +0000 threefromleith 79119@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Imagine how lethal those grooved slabs will be when there's ice / frost. They're perfectly designed to trap standing water in the grooves, where it'll freeze. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=7292#post-76202 Wed, 27 Jun 2012 14:19:10 +0000 kaputnik 76202@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The "Broomhouse path" also doesn't actually have a proper way to get on and off of it, apart from at Edinburgh Park Station end where it connects through the used-to-be-a-swamp-under-the-railway-bridge.</p> <p>If you come along South Gyle Access to Bankhead, you have to squeeze through to the front of traffic (bus lane long since suspended) and then turn across at the front onto a Toucan crossing.</p> <p>If you try and get on/off at the junctions with Broomhouse Road and Saughton Road, again you have to pull out of traffic onto a toucan crossing. Again not ideal.</p> <p>At the far end it just stops and ends in a forest of badly placed street furniture and "dismount" signs, which you can weave through before trying to find a safe way to filter onto the road (play with red lights or find a gap to jump into moving traffic).</p> <p>At some point or another, the "new" sections between South Gyle Access and Edinburgh Park, beyond Edinburgh Park and between Carrick Knowe railway bridge to Balgreen should be open. they seem to have been completed, but are behind the ubiquitous tram safety fences.</p> <p>It's a rubbish piece of path that is far prefereable to the rubbish road.</p> <p>Oh and second the recommendation to ride across the rumble-strips the "wrong" way. I don't mind that side, it's a pleasing sound actually. But the longitudnal arranged ones on the cycling side are lethal in the wet, and that small kerb down the middle is just plain dangerous. Hard to see even in full daylight because of the shallow sides that don't cast a shadow. Hit it wrong and you're on the ground. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=7292#post-76162 Wed, 27 Jun 2012 09:34:21 +0000 Uberuce 76162@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>And watch out for the raised section in the middle of the slabs. It's pretty hard to see but high enough to give an unpleasant wobble.</p> <p>As it stands, you're safer riding on the pedestrian side, and pram/wheelchair users have an easier time on the cyclist side. As an example of terrible design that anti-solves the problem, it's hard to beat. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=7292#post-76150 Wed, 27 Jun 2012 08:06:14 +0000 gembo 76150@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Yes half and half but take care if On skinny tyres as the tram people have put grooved paving slabs in at certain pedestrian junctions which are perpendicular to your direction of travel only on the pedestrian side. On the bike side they go in the same direction so if tyres narrower than the grooves you should take it easy. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=7292#post-76135 Tue, 26 Jun 2012 22:51:04 +0000 Kenny 76135@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Right, I think I now see where this path is. I've been assuming that the cycle path is like the Hawthornvale Path, which is completely separate from the road. I'm guessing that this one out of Edinburgh Park along to Carrick Knowe is basically on the pavement, beside the road, but the pavement is split in 2, half for bikes, half for pedestrians? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=7292#post-75947 Tue, 26 Jun 2012 06:49:04 +0000 gembo 75947@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>There is a grass verge between the path and what will be gram tracks and just north of the tram track comes the railway. It kind of fizzles out onto an actual pavement at stenhouse tho just before that you can fork left if heading into Edinburgh and link to a short path that takes you towards carricknowe, either through houses or if adventuress the golf course from whence the old train track at pinkhill can be accessed and then on to the glories of corstorphine, a short spell on the main roads would return you in a loop to Edinburgh Park, if any of that makes sense. The council will supply you free of charge with decent maps linking schools and off road paths which show this route clearly </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=7292#post-75928 Mon, 25 Jun 2012 22:59:30 +0000 chdot 75928@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=6730">This is at the Ed Pk Stat end</a>. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=7292#post-75927 Mon, 25 Jun 2012 22:43:57 +0000 Kenny 75927@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>So when you say the rail station, you mean the bit behind all of the metal fences etc, next to that massive roundabout at Hermiston Gait? There's a <strong>path</strong> right beside the train tracks? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=7292#post-75925 Mon, 25 Jun 2012 22:39:42 +0000 Nelly 75925@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Start at Edinburgh Park rail station, path goes all the way to Stenhouse, it will cross over to lovely new bit next to tram tracks, but not open yet. </p>