http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: Counter-Copenhagenize: Does 'very' specialist encourage interaction? en Mon, 01 Jun 2026 00:40:56 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8191#post-81588 Thu, 16 Aug 2012 17:16:31 +0000 LaidBack 81588@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Simon Evans (fringe comedian) came into shop the other day. Obviously attracted by the collection of bikes and trikes. He ventured that trikes must be the preserve of English eccentrics. I did point out that many are sold to Germans (not eccentrics?)<br /> As said before there's a need to rationalise why someone would choose bike A over B. The industry itself prefers to have categories - Moultons, tandems, trikes etc just confuse. Bromptons are unusual as they are ridden by a bigger variety of people although often favoured by academics.<br /> Considering a bike as a human powered vehicle is still a bit contrary to what many think is a sport or leisure choice. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8191#post-81581 Thu, 16 Aug 2012 16:22:38 +0000 wee folding bike 81581@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Bromptons are rare in the wild west. I sometimes see one in the city centre or west end. I've never seen another in Airdrie or Coatbridge.</p> <p>The Longstaff always gets noticed. It's photographed a lot these days when everybody has a camera with them. I've seen it turn up on other people's Facebooks and a kid in school had a photo his dad took.</p> <p>Even the Pashley is a bit odd and causes comment. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8191#post-81571 Thu, 16 Aug 2012 14:18:13 +0000 crowriver 81571@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I think what you are decribing is just the disarming effect of novelty. Folk are naturally curious about a contraption which is unfamiliar, yet unthreatening. </p> <p>It's like when Segways came out: nervous titters, pointing and staring, lots of "What's that?" plus a bit of ridicule. Now that security guards, airport personnel, etc. use the devices routinely they have become almost banal in their familiarity to most (but not all) people. Thus they merit no more attention than, say, a street sweeping machine.</p> <p>Unusual bikes are like that. When you first see one, the urge is to engage to find out what the hell it is. Once you've seen twenty of the same thing, it's "just another bike", albeit maybe graded according to coolness/uncoolness, threat/non-threat, etc. just as any mode of personal transportation or attire is. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8191#post-81554 Thu, 16 Aug 2012 13:34:18 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 81554@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"<em>However I reject the premise that seeing someone "just like them" encourages people to cycle, and I also reject that recognising someone as a person means that the observer sees someone just like them</em>"</p> <p>We do actually agree on that...</p> <p>"<em>Both the Copenhagenize and the 'Weirdize' (as I'm defining it) are predicated on the same presumption, that Joe Public is encouraged to cycle by seeing that other people, just like them, cycle. I'm not convinced by that on any level, to be perfectly honest, and think that the cycling environment itself is a greater determining factor</em>" </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8191#post-81549 Thu, 16 Aug 2012 12:57:16 +0000 Roibeard 81549@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I'll accept the premise that the "cool bike mister" effect engages people and breaks down reserve.</p> <p>However I reject the premise that seeing someone "just like them" encourages people to cycle, and I also reject that recognising someone as a person means that the observer sees someone just like them.</p> <p>If folk are engaged or amused, you may get more road respect though - it's difficult to maintain a "grrr, get out of my way" attitude, and simultaneously smile!</p> <p>As an analogue, try walking along Princes Street and see how many folk smile at you or even maintain eye contact.</p> <p>Now try doing it with a grin, a dry suit, mask and fins.</p> <p>The second attempt will result in engaging folk to such an extent that they forget their city-reserve-politely-ignore-the-existence-of-others, and will smile, make eye contact and even speak to you.</p> <p>When I've done the latter (collecting for the RNLI), and can confirm the breaking down of reserve, and the recognition of personhood[1], but I suspect not many saw me as just like them...</p> <p>Oh, and yes, the Pino is not for shy cyclists. And the same effect mostly applies to cycling with my kids, but they are nicely sized and riding the same bike, just progressively smaller sizes... Smiles, eye contact, and positive comments are most frequently encountered, and the "you're mad/bad/dangerous to know" a distant second.</p> <p>Robert</p> <p>[1] The recognition of personhood could be observed in real time - folk politely ignoring you, doing a double take, spotting the attire, then returning the grin... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8191#post-81541 Thu, 16 Aug 2012 12:26:58 +0000 Smudge 81541@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@Fimm, same experience here,</p> <p>@Uberuce, I generally just fold the brommie and stick it in the trolley when I'm nipping into supermarkets for odds and ands, no-one has complained yet though I do get some odd looks. The plan for the newly aquired panzertrailer is to use it like a (very large well armoured) buggy when going shopping :-)) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8191#post-81538 Thu, 16 Aug 2012 11:57:14 +0000 Uberuce 81538@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The chap who minds the self-service tills in Sainsbury is very taken with my trailer. He reckons I should get a rickshaw harness for it so I can shop hands-free and toss things over my shoulder into the box.</p> <p>Thumbs up to Sainsbury for not minding in the slightest that I take the thing inside. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8191#post-81537 Thu, 16 Aug 2012 11:36:05 +0000 cb 81537@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I remember on our Laidback tour the only comment we got was from a fat man reclining on a bench at Granton who pointed at us and said, "Lazy!". Which seemed a bit rich.</p> <p>On the Birdy I probably get equal amounts of "Cool bike mister!" and pointing and laughing.</p> <p>It's always male teenagers. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8191#post-81536 Thu, 16 Aug 2012 11:28:00 +0000 Min 81536@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Laidback always gets people yelling stuff at him. Don't think I would want that sort of attention! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8191#post-81534 Thu, 16 Aug 2012 11:24:25 +0000 chdot 81534@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"And it would be nice if folk would stop making stupid comments when you ride a bike with small wheels (although it doesn't happen very often to be fair)."</p> <p>Well yes...</p> <p>I think less often too - either due to the fact that bikes generally are more common/normal and small wheelers - esp Bromptons - more common. </p> <p>Most common comment/question remains "is that a folder". </p> <p>Still not clear why people want to know - or if they really do. </p> <p>The answer from me is either no (truthfully) or sort-of (practical true) or the full 'no it splits in two'. </p> <p>Can't be bothered with the "demountable" conversation! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8191#post-81533 Thu, 16 Aug 2012 11:16:28 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 81533@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>[not disappointing]<br /> Oi mate! Yer wheels have shrunk in the wash!<br /> [/nd] </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8191#post-81532 Thu, 16 Aug 2012 11:09:02 +0000 cb 81532@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>On the folder I have heard a child ask his mum, "why is that man on a boy's bike?", which embarrased the mother (and, ok I admit it, me too).</p> <p>In terms of encouraging new riders, I think there would be some advantage in having a greater mix of wacky bicycles and tricycles out on our roads. I'm sure there must be one or two folk out there that are put off by having a bike, but not the 'right' kind of bike.</p> <p>And it would be nice if folk would stop making stupid comments when you ride a bike with small wheels (although it doesn't happen very often to be fair). </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8191#post-81531 Thu, 16 Aug 2012 11:04:51 +0000 fimm 81531@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I get occasional questions about the Brompton (and have folded/unfolded/refolded it for children (and adults) before now). Adults are often interested in how much it weighs. Bromptons are relatively weird/unusual round here. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8191#post-81530 Thu, 16 Aug 2012 11:00:39 +0000 Uberuce 81530@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Bikes, kids, dogs and both being drunk. The four most reliable ways to break East coast reserve.</p> <p>I was at a junction on Tuesday with my trailer, which was being admired by a lad out with his Mum and their dog. She'd already done the mildly apologetic smile that you become proficient at when your youthful charges haven't grasped the concept of earshot yet. As they crossed, I called out that the trailer also came as a kennel, which had the wee man chattering all the way down the road to his Mum about how Dad should get one. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8191#post-81527 Thu, 16 Aug 2012 10:26:46 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 81527@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Caution, this thesis is only based on a couple of days of proper riding 'weirdness', plus reactions on short test rides...</p> <p>Riding the Noomad for a wee while I was expecting to get some funny looks and comments from cyclists. But even stopped in a full ASL no questions have been forthcoming (more often the reaction is 'I must get away quicker than <em>that</em>' before fumbling to get into the clipless pedals by which time I'm halfway down the street - well, it put a smile on my face).</p> <p>So anyway, any interactions have been with Joe Public. A van slowing alongside me, the passenger window coming down and a shout of "Where'd ye get that???!" followed by a discussion on how much fun it was to ride ("Aye, it loks great fun pal" said non-sarcastically); schoolkids on the Innocent Path steeping to the side 30-40 yards before you're actually on them and simply staring down at the wheels; or the chap walking with a buggy, and another kid on a scooter, and another on her bike, moving over to let me by and commenting "That's a cool bike mate".</p> <p>To my point. We're told, and have debated so often here, that 'normal' clothing etc etc etc ois what encourages people to cycle, just through 'seeing' how normal it all is. 'Seeing' that a cyclist is just a human being. But here's the thing, riding something weird (and Laidback and Roibeard might say the same, I know for certain the 'bents get a lot of interest) stirs people up so much that not only do they notice you, but they <em>want</em> to speak to you to find out about it. And as soon as you have niteraction you have a connection on the basic human level.</p> <p>Both the Copenhagenize and the 'Weirdize' (as I'm defining it) are predicated on the same presumption, that Joe Public is encouraged to cycle by seeing that other people, just like them, cycle. I'm not convinced by that on any level, to be perfectly honest, and think that the cycling environment itself is a greater determining factor. But if the main premise of Copenhagenization is humanisation, then surely weirdness followed by interaction is even more likely to engage those outside of the cycling world? </p>