http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: Councillor wants "evidence" about ASLs and RLJs en Sun, 03 May 2026 22:16:11 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8275#post-274765 Fri, 09 Feb 2018 09:43:42 +0000 chdot 274765@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"</p> <p>But it shouldn’t end there - motorists also routinely encroach on other cycle safety space such as bike lanes and advanced stop lines at traffic lights - which it is also an offence to block.</p> <p>No driver was prosecuted during a pioneering campaign in Edinburgh four years ago.</p> <p>Time for someone to be made an example of?</p> <p>"</p> <p><a href="https://www.scotsman.com/news/opinion/alastair-dalton-how-undercover-police-are-saving-cyclists-lives-1-4686250" rel="nofollow">https://www.scotsman.com/news/opinion/alastair-dalton-how-undercover-police-are-saving-cyclists-lives-1-4686250</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8275#post-82873 Wed, 29 Aug 2012 14:05:39 +0000 cb 82873@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"Bax and Taxi Gadge shake hands warmly, yet sarcastically"</p> <p>&lt;sniggering&gt;Bax has taxi driver disease&lt;/sniggering&gt; </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8275#post-82867 Wed, 29 Aug 2012 13:43:31 +0000 minus six 82867@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>Bax is cut up by Edinburgh Taxi Gadge who swerves into the ASL on red</em></p> <p><em>Bax (in tranquil mood):</em> You did that on purpose, right?</p> <p><em>Taxi Gadge:</em> You must be a really great guy</p> <p><em>Bax:</em> Eh?</p> <p><em>Taxi Gadge:</em> So you follow the highway code all the time?</p> <p><em>Bax:</em> Mostly, yeah</p> <p><em>Taxi Gadge:</em> I want to shake your hand, you are such a great guy</p> <p><em>Bax and Taxi Gadge shake hands warmly, yet sarcastically</em> </p> <p><em>Bax:</em> That nonsense is a 60 quid fine these days, mate</p> <p><em>Taxi Gadge:</em> Oh you are such a great guy, I wish i was as great as you</p> <p><em>Taxi Gadge:</em> What's the number one rule for cyclists?</p> <p><em>Bax:</em> You tell me</p> <p><em>Taxi Gadge:</em> Wear a bloody helmet !</p> <p><em>(To be repeated ad nauseum in Edinburgh forever)</em> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8275#post-82843 Wed, 29 Aug 2012 10:01:01 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 82843@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Sadly that's likely very true crowriver.</p> <p>"<em>Although it sounds dodgy that enforcing the law is taken out of police hands, they simply don't have the resources to prioritise traffic offences such as these (even if the Procurator Fiscal cared to prosecute!).</em>"</p> <p>With fixed penalty offences the PF isn't involved. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8275#post-82837 Wed, 29 Aug 2012 09:34:06 +0000 crowriver 82837@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>In a year or two, when these offences are decriinalised and CEC has intalled a network of cameras to enforce ASLs and cycle lanes, I predict a backlash in the local press from angry residents who have totted up a grand's worth of fines. "But I've been driving this way for years and nobody told me it was against the law!" will come the cries. A number of cameras will be removed from the QBC in response to a self-righteous campaign in the local media... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8275#post-82836 Wed, 29 Aug 2012 09:28:44 +0000 Min 82836@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>They had something on the BBC this morning about this. They had the usual sort of guy on trying to justify bad driving behaviour by trying to put the blame on pedestrians and cyclists. Yawn. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8275#post-82835 Wed, 29 Aug 2012 09:28:19 +0000 crowriver 82835@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@wfb, I like that story. However I was always told "ignorance of the law is no excuse"? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8275#post-82832 Wed, 29 Aug 2012 09:21:27 +0000 Roibeard 82832@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@slowcoach - driving in bus lanes (during their hours of operation) has already been decriminalised in Edinburgh - I suspect, like yellow line parking offences, it will gradually trickle down from the big councils.</p> <p>Although it sounds dodgy that enforcing the law is taken out of police hands, they simply don't have the resources to prioritise traffic offences such as these (even if the Procurator Fiscal cared to prosecute!).</p> <p>Robert </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8275#post-82829 Wed, 29 Aug 2012 09:10:03 +0000 slowcoach 82829@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>From <a href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/road-and-rail-transport/9501084/New-wave-of-fines-threatens-motorists.html#disqus_thread">Daily Telegraph</a> 26/08/12 "Councils have lobbied the Government for the right to fine drivers who make illegal turns, encroach on yellow boxes or drive in bus and cycle lanes. </p> <p>Ministers indicated they were “sympathetic” to the plans ..."<br /> "Very little is currently done to stop the minority of inconsiderate drivers who block cycle lanes and bus lanes, pull up in cycle boxes at traffic lights and clog box junctions causing long tailbacks in rush hour." </p> <p>"Not only do these needless infringements cause frustration to responsible motorists, they can also put cyclists at risk by forcing them into busy traffic."<br /> Article is referring to England, outside of London (where Councils already have these powers?). Will Scottish Government follow this lead, or get Police to do the job (with adequate resources)? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8275#post-82821 Wed, 29 Aug 2012 07:14:51 +0000 gembo 82821@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Is the crackdown back on? And cracking down? The wind blew me back to the scene of my ignominy last night, still only access for non-existent buses. I usually take different route through sighthill industrial estate now. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8275#post-82820 Wed, 29 Aug 2012 07:09:40 +0000 wee folding bike 82820@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>A friend was told off for being in the ASZ 16 years ago. The cops let her go on her way because she was from Islay and had never seen one before. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8275#post-82819 Wed, 29 Aug 2012 01:27:03 +0000 kaputnik 82819@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Police Traffic Wardens (not council fares and regulations enforcers) were arranging the removal of cars parked on the solid white line of the speedbumps outside Gylemuir Primary this lunchtime.</p> <p>I passed on my way to the post office and heading back same way 10 minutes later there seemed to be only 1 offender left. Either they turned up with a big lorry with some sort of tractor beam to rapidly get the cars onboard, or a lot of people nipped out of their houses and moved their cars around the corner. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8275#post-82818 Wed, 29 Aug 2012 01:10:39 +0000 Dave 82818@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>For my part I've never heard of any driver recieving a fixed penalty for failing to stop at the first line... ever.</p> <p>I'd be surprised and pleased if it turned out I'm wrong though! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8275#post-82817 Wed, 29 Aug 2012 00:25:55 +0000 chdot 82817@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>True just a warning, though I think he was looking for evidence that they were doing <em>anything</em>. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8275#post-82816 Tue, 28 Aug 2012 23:38:16 +0000 crowriver 82816@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@chdot: Is that evidence though? Did you see the officer issue a fixed penalty notice? Or was it simply a caution? Cll Rose is looking for evidence of enforcement, not just "warnings in 'awareness campaigns' " as he puts it. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8275#post-82809 Tue, 28 Aug 2012 21:44:45 +0000 gembo 82809@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>noticed the big electronic signs on way into edinburgh tonight were advising fixed penalties for bus lane infringements which is nice </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8275#post-82806 Tue, 28 Aug 2012 21:33:34 +0000 wee folding bike 82806@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I thought you could get into trouble for photographing Peelers these days. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8275#post-82796 Tue, 28 Aug 2012 18:17:16 +0000 chdot 82796@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>And only a few minutes later -</p> <p><a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/chdot/7881376644/"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8287/7881376644_2b0c88644b.jpg"></a><br /> <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/chdot/7881376644/">On patrol</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8275#post-82795 Tue, 28 Aug 2012 18:07:06 +0000 chdot 82795@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Aargh Paul if you'd only waited two minutes!!</p> <p><a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/chdot/7881374598/"><img src="http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7262/7881374598_c3d6f76c77.jpg"></a><br /> <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/chdot/7881374598/">Don't stop in the ASL!</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8275#post-82794 Tue, 28 Aug 2012 18:04:30 +0000 Cycle PC 82794@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Hello,</p> <p>I can certainly verify that officers have been deployed specifically tasked with looking at matters relating to cycling in the city. ASL's were part of this, but were not the sole area of concern.</p> <p>Statistics are difficult to produce for ASL infringements as the offence of failing to obey a red traffic light includes vehicles which continue straight through a junction and those vehicles which fail to stop at first line.</p> <p>I am in the process of looking at the volume of fixed penalty tickets issued to cyclist, and am putting together a document which will hopefully be published in due course.</p> <p>Paul </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8275#post-82736 Mon, 27 Aug 2012 22:57:36 +0000 slowcoach 82736@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Somebody did ask LBP about ASL with an FOI in March 2012:<br /> <a href="http://www.lbp.police.uk/information/freedom_of_information/disclosure_log/2012/march/advanced_stop_lines.aspx" rel="nofollow">http://www.lbp.police.uk/information/freedom_of_information/disclosure_log/2012/march/advanced_stop_lines.aspx</a> "I am unable to provide you with how many penalties have been issued since 2007 specifically for vehicles crossing the first stop line."</p> <p>In June someone asked how many red traffic light offences overall had been dealt with (3450 in L&amp;B in 2011) <a href="http://www.lbp.police.uk/information/freedom_of_information/disclosure_log/2012/june/red_light_charges.aspx" rel="nofollow">http://www.lbp.police.uk/information/freedom_of_information/disclosure_log/2012/june/red_light_charges.aspx</a></p> <p>(While looking for these I saw another FOI that might be of interest: <a href="http://www.lbp.police.uk/information/freedom_of_information/disclosure_log/2012/july/cycle_helmets.aspx" rel="nofollow">http://www.lbp.police.uk/information/freedom_of_information/disclosure_log/2012/july/cycle_helmets.aspx</a> - it's not just about helmets) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8275#post-82706 Mon, 27 Aug 2012 18:33:16 +0000 Claggy Cog 82706@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Surely L&amp;B's finest can furnish him with the "evidence" or at least figures of people who have been fined etc. Or even where they may be deploying those six bobbies at any one time. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8275#post-82682 Mon, 27 Aug 2012 12:57:34 +0000 SRD 82682@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>My contribution can be found <a href="http://deceasedcanine.blogspot.co.uk/2012/08/in-praise-of-asls.html">here</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8275#post-82676 Mon, 27 Aug 2012 12:27:19 +0000 Tom 82676@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>At the junction just across the river from here they could catch a couple of red light jumpers and up to five yellow box infringements (£80 fixed penalty each) on every traffic light sequence. Not many cyclists but would they really run a red to get crushed under a car or bus? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8275#post-82669 Mon, 27 Aug 2012 12:04:02 +0000 Instography 82669@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>If six officers working normal shifts each spend six hours on the beat patrolling Edinburgh's 754 light-controlled crossing, enforcing ASLs or collaring errant bicyclists, then each crossing is observed, on average, for 2.86 minutes.</p> <p>If the average light sequence runs for 3 minutes and<br /> using the known facts that 40% of cyclists jump red lights and hardly any motorists ever knowingly enter an ASL, calculate the probability of anyone being caught. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8275#post-82667 Mon, 27 Aug 2012 11:45:33 +0000 crowriver 82667@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Yeah I'm looking for evidence of the existence of the Abominable Snowman. Also having trouble finding my needle after it fell into a big pile of hay.</p> <p>Odds on I'll get the results I want around the same time, if not sooner, than Cll Rose gets his evidence. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8275#post-82662 Mon, 27 Aug 2012 10:40:26 +0000 Snowy 82662@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Not sure what sort of evidence he's looking for. I spend over an hour a day cycling city streets but I have yet to see a single enforcement against either a car in an ASZ or a cyclist jumping lights. </p> <p>Surely he could obtain precise figures, not based on hearsay, through a simple FOI request?</p> <p>We could certainly prove the *lack* of enforcement by taking lots of photos and videos of the ASZ transgressions we all see daily ;-) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8275#post-82646 Mon, 27 Aug 2012 07:54:12 +0000 chdot 82646@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"<br /> In Edinburgh there are around 490 advance stop lines (ASLs).  65% of signal controlled junction arms have them.</p> <p>There is often debate as to whether they are legally enforceable.  So here is my take on the issue.  The Highway Code (<a href="http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_070332">Section 171</a>) seems to be clear that they are.  As <a href="http://www.streetsaheadedinburgh.org.uk/info/1/motorcyclists/74/drive_safe_cycle_safe_easter_2012_campaign_launch/2">this web page lays out</a>, under Section 36 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 encroaching motorists can have a fixed penalty of £60 imposed and an automatic 3 points added to the offender's licence.</p> <p>Under the same section cyclists running red lights can have a fixed penalty of £30 imposed.</p> <p>Are these laws ever enforced? I mean other than warnings in 'awareness campaigns'.   I am told that there are at least six police officers operating one day a week in the city to enforce ASLs and report cyclists ignoring red lights.  This resource has been put in place until November 2012.  </p> <p>I'm looking for on street evidence of this.</p> <p>"</p> <p><a href="http://cameronrose.blogspot.co.uk/2012/08/advance-stop-lines.html" rel="nofollow">http://cameronrose.blogspot.co.uk/2012/08/advance-stop-lines.html</a> </p>