http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: OT: Portobello Park, New School, Court of Session en Thu, 21 May 2026 23:46:00 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8419&page=2#post-90350 Thu, 08 Nov 2012 23:22:54 +0000 chdot 90350@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Pretty clear what affected parents want -</p> <p><a href="http://porty.org.uk/phs-results?jsn_setmobile=no" rel="nofollow">http://porty.org.uk/phs-results?jsn_setmobile=no</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8419&page=2#post-88199 Fri, 19 Oct 2012 13:49:01 +0000 chdot 88199@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="http://www.scotsman.com/edinburgh-evening-news/latest-news/holyrood-plan-to-change-law-over-portobello-school-1-2588551" rel="nofollow">http://www.scotsman.com/edinburgh-evening-news/latest-news/holyrood-plan-to-change-law-over-portobello-school-1-2588551</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8419&page=2#post-84791 Mon, 17 Sep 2012 13:04:05 +0000 chdot 84791@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="http://www.scotsman.com/edinburgh-evening-news/education/portobello-high-school-ruling-school-break-up-not-an-option-1-2530814" rel="nofollow">http://www.scotsman.com/edinburgh-evening-news/education/portobello-high-school-ruling-school-break-up-not-an-option-1-2530814</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8419&page=2#post-84619 Fri, 14 Sep 2012 13:27:50 +0000 chdot 84619@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="http://www.keziadugdale.com/2012/09/14/bad-week-for-education-in-east-edinburgh" rel="nofollow">http://www.keziadugdale.com/2012/09/14/bad-week-for-education-in-east-edinburgh</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8419&page=2#post-84607 Fri, 14 Sep 2012 12:22:01 +0000 chdot 84607@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="http://www.scotsman.com/edinburgh-evening-news/education/search-begins-for-alternative-school-site-as-councillors-urged-to-ask-msps-to-overrule-verdict-1-2526745" rel="nofollow">http://www.scotsman.com/edinburgh-evening-news/education/search-begins-for-alternative-school-site-as-councillors-urged-to-ask-msps-to-overrule-verdict-1-2526745</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8419#post-84472 Thu, 13 Sep 2012 12:20:04 +0000 chdot 84472@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"<br /> Today, parents, councillors and politicians called on the council to consider building a new high school in Craigmillar to accommodate pupils from Castlebrae Community High School – which is set to close next summer following poor exam results and a falling school roll – and Portobello High School. Labour councillor for Craigentinny/Duddingston, Alex Lunn, said 50 per cent of his ward was “depending on a new Portobello High School” and, along with MP for Edinburgh East Sheila Gilmore, called on the council to organise a summit with the community to decide the best way forward.</p> <p>"</p> <p><a href="http://www.scotsman.com/edinburgh-evening-news/education/portobello-high-school-ruling-council-ponder-next-move-as-park-plan-is-overturned-on-appeal-1-2523528" rel="nofollow">http://www.scotsman.com/edinburgh-evening-news/education/portobello-high-school-ruling-council-ponder-next-move-as-park-plan-is-overturned-on-appeal-1-2523528</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8419#post-84471 Thu, 13 Sep 2012 12:19:41 +0000 chdot 84471@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"the same common good land and the ruling applies to it too"</p> <p>Yes, but Andy Wightman suggests transfer of ownership to a local interest group as <a href="http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8419&amp;replies=30#post-84409">a possible way forward</a>. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8419#post-84451 Thu, 13 Sep 2012 11:21:14 +0000 wangi 84451@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The other end of the park (as in the golf course) is still on the same land title (Portobello Park), the same common good land and the ruling applies to it too. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8419#post-84436 Thu, 13 Sep 2012 09:39:38 +0000 chdot 84436@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"Craigmillar is a non-starter and a distraction"</p> <p>I think both parts of that are true. </p> <p>The Park option would still mean the school is pretty central to catchment area. </p> <p>Why can't it be moved to other end of park away from (some) objectors?</p> <p>The closing of Castlebrae and the delay of its replacement due to stalling of housebuilding in Niddrie/Craigmillar is basically a separate issue, but highlights the difficulty (and/or bad planning) of predicting and providing for school places (where people want them as well!)</p> <p>Previous CEC administration tried to close a lot of schools (mostly primary, but also Castlebrae and WHEC) now CEC is faced with an increased(ing?) birth rate. </p> <p>Apparently the population of Edinburgh passed 500,000 last week. </p> <p>Edinburgh has three sorts of schools - private, good council, not so good council (that is not an order of 'quality') with all the related social and traffic issues. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8419#post-84432 Thu, 13 Sep 2012 09:23:44 +0000 wangi 84432@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"What you say @talkporty" - Craigmillar is a non-starter and a distraction, and I'll expand on that late morning! Drop rip the school out of our community. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8419#post-84430 Thu, 13 Sep 2012 09:22:34 +0000 wangi 84430@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>gembo - need to get the facts right. The budget for new Porty High is real money, not PFI / PPP / lease-back etc. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8419#post-84421 Thu, 13 Sep 2012 08:56:19 +0000 chdot 84421@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Current school at centre of catchment area -</p> <p><a href="http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/download/downloads/id/1775/portobello_high_school_catchment_map" rel="nofollow">http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/download/downloads/id/1775/portobello_high_school_catchment_map</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8419#post-84420 Thu, 13 Sep 2012 08:45:15 +0000 chdot 84420@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>As I wrote yesterday -</p> <p>"<br /> Perhaps revise the plans for replacing Castlebrae.</p> <p>Oh, but that would involve 'other issues'...</p> <p>"</p> <p>"<br /> Radio Forth News (@RadioForthNews)<br /> 13/09/2012 07:29<br /> Coming up in Forth News at 8...why new Portobello High should be in Craigmillar..Sun says sorry for Hillsborough..and HBOS banker's big fine</p> <p>"</p> <p>"<br /> Mark A Brown (@Mr_Mark_Brown)<br /> 13/09/2012 07:37<br /> @RadioForthNews Can't see a move for a 'Super School' being built in Craigmillar being widely popular somehow.... What you say @talkporty ?</p> <p>" </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8419#post-84410 Wed, 12 Sep 2012 22:36:47 +0000 chdot 84410@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="http://andrewburns.blogspot.co.uk/2012/09/statement-in-response-to-judgement-on.html" rel="nofollow">http://andrewburns.blogspot.co.uk/2012/09/statement-in-response-to-judgement-on.html</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8419#post-84409 Wed, 12 Sep 2012 22:11:55 +0000 crowriver 84409@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>More from Andy Wightman: at the end he suggests a way forward for the school to be built...!</p> <p><a href="http://www.andywightman.com/?p=1574" rel="nofollow">http://www.andywightman.com/?p=1574</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8419#post-84403 Wed, 12 Sep 2012 21:24:03 +0000 chdot 84403@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"<br /> Chas Booth (@CllrChasBooth)</p> <p>12/09/2012 20:22</p> <p>Portobello Park &amp; Common Good | Land Matters <a href="http://andywightman.com/?p=1562" rel="nofollow">http://andywightman.com/?p=1562</a> &lt;good summary of issues from @andywightman</p> <p>" </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8419#post-84397 Wed, 12 Sep 2012 20:02:26 +0000 crowriver 84397@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Kenny MacAskill ‘disappointed’ after Portobello High School protesters win legal fight</p> <p>According to the Hootsmon:</p> <p><a href="http://www.scotsman.com/news/education/kenny-macaskill-disappointed-after-portobello-high-school-protesters-win-legal-fight-1-2521721" rel="nofollow">http://www.scotsman.com/news/education/kenny-macaskill-disappointed-after-portobello-high-school-protesters-win-legal-fight-1-2521721</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8419#post-84396 Wed, 12 Sep 2012 19:43:02 +0000 gembo 84396@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>If a new school had been built on the park site it would have been good for parents of high school age pupils and the pupils ( a new school is good). However, it would have been public private partnership and leased back to the authority. The last new schoolmbuiltin edinburgh still owned by the public was St Thomas of Aquins, very nice.</p> <p>I can't be certain but I would guess the porty park group don't have many high school age children as offspring?</p> <p>The authority has been using legal system over several years to alter use of land / buildings gifted to them for common good or educational reasons. The money they make in selling off assets is returned to citizens ( is the argument). </p> <p>This time the action group fought an organised campaign. </p> <p>aside from some dog walkers and local house owners disrupted by building work, there are no winners. principles are good but some principles re better than others. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8419#post-84394 Wed, 12 Sep 2012 19:32:17 +0000 crowriver 84394@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The NIMBYs may be in the right legally. The Council should have checked the legal situation and sorted it out before any plans were drawn up.</p> <p>However I have to say I'm not convinced by the retrospective seemingly egalitarian and noble 'protecting common good land' stance of the NIMBYs. If they were so well intentioned, why such a vicious campaign? Also, if providing comprehensive education is not a 'common good', what is?</p> <p>I'm afraid the burghers of Porty Park are up there in the 'get orf my land' brigade along with the 'Lords and Ladies' of Barnton/Cramond with their 'safety' concerns about passing cyclists. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8419#post-84387 Wed, 12 Sep 2012 17:42:22 +0000 chdot 84387@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"</p> <p>Cllr. Andrew D Burns (@AndrewDBurns)</p> <p>12/09/2012 17:31</p> <p>I know opinions are strong on either side of the debate, but I'm personally deeply, deeply disappointed by today's Portobello HS judgement.</p> <p>" </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8419#post-84370 Wed, 12 Sep 2012 14:27:00 +0000 steveo 84370@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I do wonder what the plans were for the old facility? Sold off to a developer on the cheap to turn into flats no doubt. If they had promised to do some "community" stuff with it or turn it into a park facility maybe they'd have garnered more support. Though looking at the FUD campaign it probably wouldn't have made any difference. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8419#post-84369 Wed, 12 Sep 2012 14:24:38 +0000 crowriver 84369@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Here's how it all started four years ago...</p> <p>School chosen from disrepair list</p> <p>Five schools in Edinburgh are on a disrepair shortlist</p> <p>Portobello High School is set to be rebuilt first out of a list of five Edinburgh schools shortlisted for the state of their disrepair. The £41.5m school plans mean Edinburgh City Council would need to find another £8.5m in February's budget to meet a shortfall. James Gillespie's High School is being recommended as being fixed second. Boroughmuir High School would be third, St John's Primary School fourth and St Crispin's Special School fifth.</p> <p><a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/edinburgh_and_east/7776079.stm" rel="nofollow">http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/edinburgh_and_east/7776079.stm</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8419#post-84368 Wed, 12 Sep 2012 14:18:59 +0000 crowriver 84368@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Beeb have picked up the story:</p> <p>Campaigners against building new school on land in Portobello win appeal</p> <p>Tom Ballantine vice chair of Portobello High School Parents' council, said: "I believe this is a very sad day for the Portobello Community. It's certainly a sad day for the young people of the area. This was a fantastic opportunity to get a wonderful new school. It's too early to know where this will go next."</p> <p><a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-19570676" rel="nofollow">http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-19570676</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8419#post-84365 Wed, 12 Sep 2012 14:06:11 +0000 chdot 84365@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Meanwhile, far away in another part of town -</p> <p><a href="http://www.scotsman.com/news/education/whec-making-the-grade-1-2492864" rel="nofollow">http://www.scotsman.com/news/education/whec-making-the-grade-1-2492864</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8419#post-84363 Wed, 12 Sep 2012 13:57:24 +0000 chdot 84363@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Just seen this -</p> <p>"</p> <p>Parents’ fury over plan to close school</p> <p>Councillors have been accused of “ripping the heart out of the community” following the news that Castlebrae Community High School is set to close.</p> <p>"</p> <p><a href="http://m.scotsman.com/edinburgh-evening-news/latest-news/parents-fury-over-plan-to-close-school-1-2521218" rel="nofollow">http://m.scotsman.com/edinburgh-evening-news/latest-news/parents-fury-over-plan-to-close-school-1-2521218</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8419#post-84361 Wed, 12 Sep 2012 13:49:03 +0000 chdot 84361@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Bit complicated - and messy. </p> <p>Some people may have been pursuing this (largely) in their own personal interest. </p> <p>The park is unattractive after years of neglect and underuse. </p> <p>The existing Porty High is partly past its sell by date due to neglect and underinvestment. </p> <p>It would be easier to replace by building on a (literally) green field site. </p> <p>CEC has been trying to do this unlawfully - and has been found out. </p> <p>Other sites have been rejected for various reasons. </p> <p>Other Edinburgh schools have been temporarily relocated to allow rebuilding. </p> <p>This is particularly difficult with Porty as it has a lot of pupils - was apparently largest secondary in western europe at one time. </p> <p>Perhaps rebuild on present site with fewer pupils. </p> <p>Perhaps revise the plans for replacing Castlebrae. </p> <p>Oh, but that would involve 'other issues'...</p> <p>One long term problem with local authorities is that there is never enough money for repairs but often money for BIG NEW PROJECTS. </p> <p>Another problem (I think largely associated with the Blair Government) has been the obsession with brand new state schools. </p> <p>Blair of course went to Fettes. No chance of that Victorian pile being declared past its sellby date, or the even older Heriots condemned as not fit for purpose. </p> <p>All very strange. </p> <p>Doesn't help Porty pupils, but CEC should have seen it coming. </p> <p>Let's hope they can conjure up a plan f quickly! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8419#post-84360 Wed, 12 Sep 2012 13:18:37 +0000 steveo 84360@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>As much as I hate to say it, I agree with the NIMBY's. </p> <p>The council seems intent on building on or selling off all the greenspace it can get away with either to finance debt or cover their day to day running expenses. The problem is that this greespace will run out long before the debt does. A more sustainable solution should be found and if land has been willed to the people of the city it should not be sold off or built on. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8419#post-84356 Wed, 12 Sep 2012 12:55:27 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 84356@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>So in no circumstances can historic wishes for land be superceded where a genuine need can be shown which actually benefits more people in the local community than originally?</p> <p>At present the park is scrubland, has been for years, which a few people walk their dogs in. The land was given over to the common good - the plans retained areas of the park in which dogs could still be walked, and by providing the area's kids (and their families) with a much better educational institution it is arguably providing much more common good.</p> <p>But yes, the actual decision, based on the legal position, is 100% correct. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8419#post-84353 Wed, 12 Sep 2012 12:38:24 +0000 SRD 84353@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Sorry WC, but saying you can do this once, but it doesn't set a precedent, doesn't diminish the fact that the will of person who gave that land to the city to be a park has been countermanded. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8419#post-84352 Wed, 12 Sep 2012 12:35:01 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 84352@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Yes, but what was also clear from the original judgement was that the decision to allow building on Porty Park was <em>just</em> for Porty Park, and could not be relied upon for any similar future plans, so the principle that, "<em>if a city was given land with explicit terms that it be retained as parkland and specifically NOT built upon</em>" was going to remain. The decision today hasn't actually confirmed that point, what it has confirmed is that specifically on the Porty Park situation the Council didn't have authority to appropriate the land. </p>