CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: QBC video audit...

CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: QBC video audit... http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: QBC video audit... en Wed, 08 Apr 2026 07:54:52 +0000 SRD on "QBC video audit..." http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8473&page=3#post-94788 Wed, 19 Dec 2012 10:07:04 +0000 SRD 94788@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ (some of the commenters seem familiar...) not just the ones who used their own names ;) chdot on "QBC video audit..." http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8473&page=3#post-94787 Wed, 19 Dec 2012 09:45:50 +0000 chdot 94787@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Just been looking at original QBC thread - <a href="http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=7331" rel="nofollow">http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=7331</a> It includes a link to a blog post which concludes - " Thanks Caroline - and I have to agree with her. While it seems Edinburgh's policy could be revolutionary and really prioritise space on the roads for cyclists, we actually have very poor quality provision, that puts lives in danger, and prioritises high speed motor traffic over anything else. " <a href="http://drpetermatthews.blogspot.co.uk/2012/06/bike-to-work-week-what-my-council-is.html" rel="nofollow">http://drpetermatthews.blogspot.co.uk/2012/06/bike-to-work-week-what-my-council-is.html</a> chdot on "QBC video audit..." http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8473&page=3#post-94781 Wed, 19 Dec 2012 08:52:51 +0000 chdot 94781@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ There are quite a few comments on AB's blog post (some of the commenters seem familiar...) His replies are interesting - " The difference of view(s) on all of this, amongst cyclists (of which I am most definitely one), is at the heart of what led to my original tweets and subsequent ride/post above. I'm not sure it can be resolved in an exchange of blog comments, but I am genuinely interested in whether this (relatively significant??) divergence amongst cyclists is actually helping the wider cause of encouraging more cycling? Needs to be discussed in a pub methinks ;-) Andrew " Pub discussion would be interesting! Might be worth trying to get him to come to a PY (coffee) morning - it's on his way to work! DaveC on "QBC video audit..." http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8473&page=3#post-94747 Tue, 18 Dec 2012 15:06:03 +0000 DaveC 94747@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ "On the day he went there were several enforcers in action - (see picture above) This was NOT because he was going to be there. " Aye right... I bet they follow him on twitter and preceeded his arrival. chdot on "QBC video audit..." http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8473&page=3#post-94719 Tue, 18 Dec 2012 09:07:12 +0000 chdot 94719@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ On the day he went there were several enforcers in action - <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/chdot/8271380159/"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8342/8271380159_a789927bdf.jpg"></a> This was NOT because he was going to be there. Will be interesting to know how often they repeat it. Meanwhile on Twitter - " Ben Miller (@fairlynuts) 17/12/2012 21:57 Refreshing, thoughtful comments from @AndrewDBurns on new bike corridor. Odd no mention of parking on the lane though? " " Cllr. Andrew D Burns (@AndrewDBurns) 17/12/2012 21:58 @fairlynuts Ben, thanks - was purely down to cycling it in the morning rush-hour .. I will go back and have a look off-peak as well, Andrew. " chdot on "QBC video audit..." http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8473&page=3#post-94711 Mon, 17 Dec 2012 23:22:37 +0000 chdot 94711@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ " I caused a bit of a twitter-storm, when in response to some fairly robust criticism of the new route, I tweeted that I thought it was "at least a step in the right direction" :-( Needless to say, I was challenged to cycle the route and find out for myself the error of my assertions! " <a href="http://andrewburns.blogspot.co.uk/2012/12/cycling-boost-for-edinburgh-with-new.html" rel="nofollow">http://andrewburns.blogspot.co.uk/2012/12/cycling-boost-for-edinburgh-with-new.html</a> chdot on "QBC video audit..." http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8473&page=3#post-93251 Mon, 03 Dec 2012 21:32:13 +0000 chdot 93251@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Some background info that might interest some people. Spokes detailing how it tried to get improvements to QBC (with some success) - <a href="http://www.spokes.org.uk/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/1105-QBC-RG-NOTE-OF-DISCUSSION-WITH-COUNCIL-OFFICIALS1.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.spokes.org.uk/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/1105-QBC-RG-NOTE-OF-DISCUSSION-WITH-COUNCIL-OFFICIALS1.pdf</a> chdot on "QBC video audit..." http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8473&page=3#post-92066 Sat, 24 Nov 2012 19:30:07 +0000 chdot 92066@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ And now there is a dissertation! <a href="http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=7761&replies=14#post-92065" rel="nofollow">http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=7761&replies=14#post-92065</a> chdot on "QBC video audit..." http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8473&page=3#post-91734 Wed, 21 Nov 2012 00:01:59 +0000 chdot 91734@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <a href="http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8958">The new video</a> chdot on "QBC video audit..." http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8473&page=3#post-91403 Sun, 18 Nov 2012 22:08:53 +0000 chdot 91403@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ " Cllr. Andrew D Burns (@AndrewDBurns) 18/11/2012 20:46 @CyclingEdin Ha! Twitter storm indeed. Becoming a bit more frequent for me these days (on all sorts of subjects) and raise interesting >more Cllr. Andrew D Burns (@AndrewDBurns) 18/11/2012 20:48 @CyclingEdin <more: questions about my ability to respond to every weet? I do not want to succumb to 'staff' operating my twitter account! " chdot on "QBC video audit..." http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8473&page=3#post-91399 Sun, 18 Nov 2012 21:46:00 +0000 chdot 91399@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Incidentally it's almost exactly 40 years since 3 people painted yellow lines in (pre-pedestrianised) Rose Street. They got done for stealing parking cones (can't remember why they needed them). chdot on "QBC video audit..." http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8473&page=3#post-91397 Sun, 18 Nov 2012 21:41:14 +0000 chdot 91397@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <a href="http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http://transports.blog.lemonde.fr/2012/11/18/ces-militants-qui-dessinent-des-fausses-pistes-cyclables/&usg=ALkJrhjDIVlg_-xZ5pYRtN-cXuXuZYNeeQ" rel="nofollow">http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http://transports.blog.lemonde.fr/2012/11/18/ces-militants-qui-dessinent-des-fausses-pistes-cyclables/&usg=ALkJrhjDIVlg_-xZ5pYRtN-cXuXuZYNeeQ</a> PS on "QBC video audit..." http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8473&page=3#post-91396 Sun, 18 Nov 2012 21:36:31 +0000 PS 91396@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Time for the DIY approach?: <a href="http://transports.blog.lemonde.fr/2012/11/18/ces-militants-qui-dessinent-des-fausses-pistes-cyclables/">au francais</a> (Hat tip to inrng.com) chdot on "QBC video audit..." http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8473&page=3#post-91392 Sun, 18 Nov 2012 20:25:55 +0000 chdot 91392@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ "the "Avoid the QBC" route seems to be getting the publicity on campus just to highlight the embarrassment a little more." <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/chdot/8191906776/"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8067/8191906776_d65b0d8207.jpg"></a> Min on "QBC video audit..." http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8473&page=3#post-91391 Sun, 18 Nov 2012 20:19:08 +0000 Min 91391@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ I think if they hadn't trumpeted so much about it being so world class and quality, they wouldn't have been up for so much derision. Plus the "Avoid the QBC" route seems to be getting the publicity on campus just to highlight the embarrassment a little more. Claggy Cog on "QBC video audit..." http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8473&page=3#post-91390 Sun, 18 Nov 2012 20:12:16 +0000 Claggy Cog 91390@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ One senior councillor has been heard to ask why spend this money if there is nothing but negativity about the outcome. Does this logic apply to the tram fiasco then? Have they really spent huge sums of money on anything that has had a really positive outcome or reaction? No. I thought not. Claggy Cog on "QBC video audit..." http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8473&page=3#post-91385 Sun, 18 Nov 2012 19:50:21 +0000 Claggy Cog 91385@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ The QBC is laid on a route from one part of the university to another, ergo bound to be used by poor students who cannot afford cars, and therefore go between campuses by bike. Many university courses do not start at 0900 and finish at 1700 i.e. rush hour and therefore really as cyclists won't be affected by the "rush" hour per se and therefore the route is less dangerous outwith peak travelling time due to there being far fewer cars. Where the bike lane goes around the designated parking it is far too close to the parked cars ensuring that any cyclist travelling in it can be effectively doored or should someone pull out in their car over the bike lane, they will be in the ideal spot to be knocked off. I really don't think that there would be howls of protest or sit ins by cyclists should CEC decide to remove the painted broken lines because we are just a bunch of whingers who don't deserve to be considered in planning, whether it be good or bad, and woe betide us should we suggest how it could be managed better!! Min on "QBC video audit..." http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8473&page=3#post-91371 Sun, 18 Nov 2012 15:33:38 +0000 Min 91371@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ One senior councillor has been heard to ask why spend this money if there is nothing but negativity about the outcome. This is the head-against-a-brick-wall moment that we in the UK are apparently doomed to for all time. Councillors ignore all advice from Dutch builders, build a pile of unusable cack, cyclists complain about it then get told they are not getting anything ever again. It is why many people are against cycle infrastructure - we are just up against so much ignorance it is untrue. minus six on "QBC video audit..." http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8473&page=3#post-91370 Sun, 18 Nov 2012 15:04:54 +0000 minus six 91370@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ It doesn't bother me whether or not Edinburgh Council stick to their 5% budget commitment. At the end of the day, all that's done, or planned to be done, is cosmetic. There's no formal reallocation of road space to protect cyclists, anywhere in Edinburgh. This isn't a step change in the right direction. It is misdirection, and a complete waste of money. chdot on "QBC video audit..." http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8473&page=3#post-91369 Sun, 18 Nov 2012 13:05:23 +0000 chdot 91369@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ In terms of the Quality/Dutchness of the QBC I forgot to mention the fact that not all is 20mph (obviously because L&BP wouldn't enforce it). In the Netherlands I think it's safe to say that roads with a 30mph limit would have segregated cycle lanes. chdot on "QBC video audit..." http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8473&page=3#post-91368 Sun, 18 Nov 2012 12:59:28 +0000 chdot 91368@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ "One senior councillor has been heard to ask why spend this money if there is nothing but negativity about the outcome." Perhaps he's asking the wrong question. The money has to be spent wisely not timidly. "but councillors (who rely on votes) are also extremely strongly pressured by shop owners etc and are worried about motorist votes" True, but as this forum demonstrates - most people who ride bikes also own/have access to a car(s). So I suggest councillors are behind the times and/or failing/refusing to show sufficient leadership. I have no problem with business owners on the side of busy roads lobbying and having their points of view taken into account. However there is sufficient evidence from elsewhere that businesses benefit from less/slower traffic and easier access by bike and foot. Obviously some individual business may suffer - but if the Council actually cared it wouldn't have made such a shambles in places like Leith Walk - businesses have gone bust there and the surviving ones won't even get the 'tram benefit'. It's hard to believe that most of the surviving businesses rely (mostly) on people arriving by car. On the QBC the traders' case would be strengthened if more of them demonstrated a willingness to abide by the (parking) law. DdF on "QBC video audit..." http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8473&page=3#post-91367 Sun, 18 Nov 2012 12:27:45 +0000 DdF 91367@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ QBiC could and should be better in many respects, but the only objective evidence so far suggests that it is already resulting in increased cycle use. Other objective evidence would be welcome. <a href="http://www.spokes.org.uk/wordpress/2012/11/more-bikes-again-and-qbic-helps/" rel="nofollow">http://www.spokes.org.uk/wordpress/2012/11/more-bikes-again-and-qbic-helps/</a> The problem has never been technical but political. The cyclist side has pressurised hard, but councillors (who rely on votes) are also extremely strongly pressured by shop owners etc and are worried about motorist votes (there are still many more car trips than bike trips in Edinburgh - even at the very best spokes count point, bikes are 27% of all vehicles). Hopefully the fact that cycle use is continuing to rise, together with continued & increasing lobbying, will embolden councillors to further improvements here and elsewhere, and to stick to their budget decision. That is what has happened up to now. Bikes used to be 1% of journeys to work in Edinburgh, and now are 7%, whereas cycle use has changed little in UK or Scotland as a whole. Another point - not all councillors understand cycling as a form of transport, and not all are happy with Edinburgh's unique "5% of the transport budget for cycling" decision. One senior councillor has been heard to ask why spend this money if there is nothing but negativity about the outcome. Criticism in a positive and constructive manner is of course absolutely vital. For all its faults, if the council decided to remove QBiC (as some commenters have virtually suggested) I suspect that the result would be <a href="http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/1286517--jarvis-st-bike-lane-removal-met-by-protest">this</a>! chdot on "QBC video audit..." http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8473&page=3#post-91365 Sun, 18 Nov 2012 11:58:53 +0000 chdot 91365@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ "What ride?" Well there was a bit of a Twitter storm after CEC announced that the QBC was officially open. Various twits (some CCE members, more not) basically said it wasn't fit for purpose - mostly because of the parking but also because Teviot is still being dug up (the reason the original 'launch' was postponed) and the fact that the new entrance at KB looks nowhere near finished - so it's still impossible to gauge the effectiveness of one of the key purposes of the QBC! Andrew Burns joined in arguing that it was 'a step forward'. I asked if he would go for a ride with critics. The ENews (and others) asked if they could come too! AB asked to be contacted by email. I suspect a 'public' ride would become a bit of a circus. I hope he will ride the route some morning between 8 and 9. Alone would actually be more useful for him to get a better idea of the issues - random (or perhaps not that random) illegal parking, poor surfaces in a few places and the fact that the cycle lane goes round parking bays in some places but not others. I suggested #QBCfail but no-one else took it up! The reality is of course that this really is an advance (for Edinburgh) and the best Quality design (for Edinburgh). No-one made them include the word Quality (coined under last administration), but they are still using it - apparently with pride. Unfortunately (not least in the week of the 'Go Dutch' conference) "Quality" and the defence of the QBC, looks like a bad joke. steveo on "QBC video audit..." http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8473&page=2#post-91364 Sun, 18 Nov 2012 11:05:44 +0000 steveo 91364@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ What ride? If not during office hours, it might be more useful for those of us with cars to carefully recreate the worst blockages! Can door the councilor? Arellcat on "QBC video audit..." http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8473&page=2#post-91361 Sun, 18 Nov 2012 10:30:48 +0000 Arellcat 91361@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Comment in yesterday's EEN: " It seems the Capital's van drivers missed the memo from CEC's transport gurus about the new bicycle corridor launched yesterday. The Council's transport vice-convenor Jimm Orr posed happily on his bike for photos at the junction of Buccleuch Street and West Cross Causeway, espousing the improved safety of the cycle lanes running from George IV Bridge to Edinburgh University's science complex at King's Buildings. Only 50 metres down the road, however, a parked van had done its best to steal the show, completely blocking the the bike path. Another van ended up across the designated path at the junction minutes later after hitting the brakes to avoid colliding with oncoming traffic, in signs that cars still rule the central city's roads. " Dave on "QBC video audit..." http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8473&page=2#post-91359 Sun, 18 Nov 2012 08:50:51 +0000 Dave 91359@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ What ride? If not during office hours, it might be more useful for those of us with cars to carefully recreate the worst blockages! Uberuce on "QBC video audit..." http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8473&page=2#post-91354 Sun, 18 Nov 2012 00:47:46 +0000 Uberuce 91354@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ I think we need footage shot from a frame-mounted camera to highlight surfacing problems. This mount will need some stern engineering. It shouldn't. But it will. Also: sign me up for this jaunt along the QBC with Cllr Burns. I'll bring m'trailer. Dave on "QBC video audit..." http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8473&page=2#post-91353 Sun, 18 Nov 2012 00:06:16 +0000 Dave 91353@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ I'm clearly missing the bandwagon. Should I dig out my rogue's gallery of QBC video offenders? Claggy Cog on "QBC video audit..." http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8473&page=2#post-91345 Sat, 17 Nov 2012 17:23:36 +0000 Claggy Cog 91345@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ @custard...yep, detracts from the issues. Also the headline is so sensationalist, I am not furious about the standard of the QBC, more resigned to poor, shoddy planning and execution, by EDC, yet again. Motorists can hardly fail to be impressed by our whingeing, as portrayed by EEN/Scotsman publications, and as ever forget that they are surrounded by a substantial amount of metal and have four very fat tyres and don't disappear into potholes and uneven surfaces, although uncomfortable are not life threatening. custard on "QBC video audit..." http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8473&page=2#post-91344 Sat, 17 Nov 2012 16:57:38 +0000 custard 91344@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ @Claggy Cog As soon as I saw the picture with the 3rd cyclist on the give way,I knew it would be picked up