http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: Desire lines en Mon, 06 Apr 2026 12:16:12 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8490&page=2#post-182636 Sun, 08 Mar 2015 11:38:54 +0000 chdot 182636@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>A new thread was inadvertently created, so examples/discussion continues there -</p> <p><a href="http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14329" rel="nofollow">http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=14329</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8490&page=2#post-180307 Tue, 10 Feb 2015 00:21:55 +0000 chdot 180307@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><img src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-2sll-5Aw0D8/UXbX-kmb-lI/AAAAAAAAAXI/ZQHQ-uWFRLA/s1600/Worn+out+grass+desire+line.jpg"></p> <p>"</p> <p>Look at the packed down soil - people want to walk here. This is a desire line in action and such a no brainer, you don't even need to be an engineer to understand - hell, even a politician could understand this one!!! </p> <p>"</p> <p><a href="http://therantyhighwayman.blogspot.co.uk/2013/05/desire.html" rel="nofollow">http://therantyhighwayman.blogspot.co.uk/2013/05/desire.html</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8490&page=2#post-179691 Tue, 03 Feb 2015 12:07:38 +0000 wingpig 179691@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>In <a href="http://goo.gl/maps/X4bG9">Lochend Park</a> the southernmost opening from Lochend Butterfly Way into the park technically only meets with the upper path as it's only joined to the lower pond-side path by an unofficial (though heavily-used) rutted stoney mud-path. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8490&page=2#post-179690 Tue, 03 Feb 2015 11:59:55 +0000 earthowned 179690@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@PS - that particular desire line really bugs me! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8490&page=2#post-179680 Tue, 03 Feb 2015 11:13:09 +0000 PS 179680@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>It's a "leisure" one, but one I was thinking of a couple of days ago - Arthur's Seat, by the gate at the start of the Queen's Drive climb, there's a desire line from the pavement over the curb and back onto the road used by cyclists doing laps of the seat when the gate is closed. Would be nice if it were tarmacked. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8490&page=2#post-179676 Tue, 03 Feb 2015 10:45:45 +0000 chdot 179676@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Yesterday I started a fake Desire Lines thread. </p> <p>This is the <em>real</em> one. </p> <p>Please add examples. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8490&page=2#post-97792 Wed, 23 Jan 2013 14:02:39 +0000 spytfyre 97792@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>they added a <a href="http://goo.gl/maps/w3S2D">new path</a> from the canal to try to drag cyclists and walkers away from that particular desire line as it upsets the footballers </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8490&page=2#post-97790 Wed, 23 Jan 2013 13:58:59 +0000 chdot 97790@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>That's a good example. </p> <p>I think that football is played over there so 'difficult' to tarmac</p> <p>The West Park has a tarmac diagonal - but not on the gritting list -</p> <p><a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/chdot/8406315090/"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8185/8406315090_a23b83812c.jpg"></a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8490&page=2#post-97788 Wed, 23 Jan 2013 13:52:01 +0000 spytfyre 97788@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="http://goo.gl/maps/SU98i" rel="nofollow">http://goo.gl/maps/SU98i</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8490&page=2#post-97717 Tue, 22 Jan 2013 22:19:35 +0000 Nelly 97717@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Yes, I discovered that the Marathon Winters are not that good on the churned up desire line at Edin Park Station this evening, almost came to an abrupt stop/fail. Very handy when it is frozen though ! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8490&page=2#post-97707 Tue, 22 Jan 2013 21:38:55 +0000 chdot 97707@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/chdot/8406281924/"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8495/8406281924_510765242d.jpg"></a><br /> <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/chdot/8406281924/">Desire lines</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8490#post-85924 Thu, 27 Sep 2012 14:11:51 +0000 Arellcat 85924@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@gembo, I caught a train at Edinburgh Park yesterday, having come from town direction. The cycle expressway where it parallels Bankhead Drive was practically unusable because the HERAS fencing has been erected on it, reducing the available width to that of a narrow pavement. I was using the road per usual.</p> <p>Further on towards EDP the path widens out again, but there was a water tanker damping down the dust, and occupying the entire width of the tarmac. I was still using the road.</p> <p>When I got to the "Buses only" bit, I diverted onto the cycle path, nearly getting a snakebite in the process because the lowered kerb is vicious (can't unweight your wheels on a recumbent). Then I manoeuvred myself around the little switchback access path to the station entrance. Not as tight or narrow as the one at the West Approach Road, but tight enough.</p> <p>I wish they would fixed the shocking tarmac all along Broomhouse Drive and Bankhead Drive. The city feels like a perpetual obstacle course. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8490#post-85902 Thu, 27 Sep 2012 12:46:20 +0000 Kirst 85902@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>I could go on at length about how (I think) real planning in the UK effectively died a death on the 80's - but I'll spare you all that.</em><br /> I blame Thatcher. </p> <p>I have a theory that all that is wrong in this world can be traced back to her somehow. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8490#post-85865 Wed, 26 Sep 2012 21:38:33 +0000 gembo 85865@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Broomhouse - stenhouse path generally works for pedestrians and cyclists as the two lanes help with people not being where they are supposed to be. Despite all the trams gubbings getting in the way it still works. Admittedly not that many pedestrians and not huge number of cyclists. Some even go on the road but the surface is poor. This all ends badly at Edinburgh Park Station. also getting on at stenhouse is a bit wrong for me as ten yards of pavement into blinding sun at the moment. Also the rumble strips are wrong. I come off at the pits five a sides. That can involve a wait for gap in traffic. There is then a huge metal plate on the road that needs navigation and some bumps on the road up to Stevenson. However, this route stops me going tonedinburgh park which is both a mess and where I was nearly busted </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8490#post-85733 Wed, 26 Sep 2012 04:56:37 +0000 Dave 85733@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Becky - it sounds like on the Broomhouse path (which admittedly is only on my route if I make a spectacular detour) the pedestrians are walking on the bike side while cyclists go on the pedestrian side - presumably blind folk notwithstanding.</p> <p>If I approach some ridged paving and cross over to go on the "rumble strip" rather than the "tramline" (for the sake of argument) isn't that essentially a desire line phenomenon? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8490#post-85730 Wed, 26 Sep 2012 00:33:11 +0000 Snowy 85730@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Edinburgh Park station is developing its own desire lines. Namely, rather than take the 20 metre hairpin detour suggested by the designers from tram platform to shared path between tram/rail platforms, most cyclists are opting for the simple 2 metre 'over the grassy verge' shortcut. Already fairly churned up. I suspect a re-educational fence will be installed in short order. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8490#post-85715 Tue, 25 Sep 2012 22:25:57 +0000 Arellcat 85715@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>The guidance will have been developed by generalist civil servants at the behest of politicians and will have involved input from professionals and others with an interest in the subject.</em></p> <p>The guidance, particularly in the design specification of tactile surfaces, is informed by repeated testing in controlled environments with the end users. These are the people who can say during an experiment that a 3mm projection is not detectable while 5mm or 10mm is; that a greater proportion of users more rapidly identified transverse projections than inline; when step heights or slope angles become hazardous or intuitive.</p> <p>Though this is straying somewhat from desire lines. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8490#post-85698 Tue, 25 Sep 2012 21:35:50 +0000 Morningsider 85698@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The development of the tactile paving guidance was really due to pressure from the RNIB and Guide Dogs for the Blind Association - both well established and very effective campaign groups that carry far more clout than any cycling group. The guidance will have been developed by generalist civil servants at the behest of politicians and will have involved input from professionals and others with an interest in the subject.</p> <p>It is important to remember that this is guidance - developers can, and do, ignore it. Anyone that says they have to follow it is (at best) exaggerating - see most shared use/segregated paths for evidence that the guidance is not followed in most cases.</p> <p>It is important to remember that cyclists aren't the only people lobbying Government to further their own aims. "Planners" are an easy target - but their powers are far more limited than most people seem to imagine. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8490#post-85664 Tue, 25 Sep 2012 19:17:08 +0000 Dave 85664@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>But politicians don't actually come up with things like "tramline" tactile paving, right? </p> <p>In fact, if you complain to your MSP / councillor about a fall on the tactile paving due to the ridiculous parallel edges, they'll tell you regretfully that they can't do anything about it because it's part of the regs of constructing that type of path. </p> <p>If planners (as a professional group, not so much as individuals) aren't responsible for these things, who is? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8490#post-85624 Tue, 25 Sep 2012 14:51:23 +0000 Morningsider 85624@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Dave - that's a bit harsh. I would count myself as "someone involved in planning" and I have been cycling for many a year. Lots of planners, architects and landscape architects cycle - as a group they tend to be more concerned about the environment and urban design than many people (although there are exceptions). </p> <p>However, professionals in the UK have fairly limited power on what actually gets built compared with politicians, developers and the money men. Could they all do better? Probably, but I think the real ire should be directed at the people with the greatest influence. </p> <p>I could go on at length about how (I think) real planning in the UK effectively died a death on the 80's - but I'll spare you all that. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8490#post-85622 Tue, 25 Sep 2012 14:32:12 +0000 Dave 85622@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>There does always seem to be a disparity between what gets built and any imaginable reason for building it. For instance, you'd think that eventually someone involved in planning would learn to cycle and immediately think "hey, all of this stuff is just dire, no wonder people ignore or moan about it" (in fact, I'm compelled to think that they must have done so!)</p> <p>Yet, every time a new facility is put in it invariably features serious design failings. Compare the Broomhouse path with North Edinburgh Path Network - the latter is a pleasure to use, the former has newly built slippery "tramline" paving stones, pedestrians prefer the "cycling side" (and it's an offence for cyclists to avoid them by going onto the other side) </p> <p>BUT, surely many more planners actually do cycle nowadays than in the days when NEPN was tarmacked?</p> <p>I sometimes ride on the new cycling cut through from King's Haugh to the Innocent, but the railings make it extremely difficult to do so with a trailer - luckily mine doesn't have kids in it, as I've clattered it a few times :( </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8490#post-85617 Tue, 25 Sep 2012 14:09:37 +0000 Peterward2008 85617@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=EH4+2PS&amp;hl=en&amp;ll=55.964254,-3.240988&amp;spn=0.002171,0.004801&amp;sll=55.941208,-3.205339&amp;sspn=0.139015,0.307274&amp;hnear=Edinburgh+EH4+2PS,+United+Kingdom&amp;t=h&amp;z=18">Correct link</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8490#post-85616 Tue, 25 Sep 2012 14:09:09 +0000 Min 85616@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>"They should teach planners that on day 1 of planning school. "</p> <p>"We do!"</em></p> <p>Well there's your problem. By the time they have finshed planning school they have forgotten about it. Teach them on the last day instead, then they'll remember it. :-P </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8490#post-85615 Tue, 25 Sep 2012 14:07:09 +0000 Peterward2008 85615@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="https://maps.google.co.uk/?ll=55.931227,-3.064142&amp;spn=0.000524,0.001206&amp;t=h&amp;z=20">North Edinburgh Desire lines</a></p> <p>Another set of desire lines in North Edinburgh: </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8490#post-85609 Tue, 25 Sep 2012 13:36:51 +0000 amir 85609@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>A desire line on the NCR 1</p> <p><a href="https://maps.google.co.uk/?ll=55.931227,-3.064142&amp;spn=0.000524,0.001206&amp;t=h&amp;z=20" rel="nofollow">https://maps.google.co.uk/?ll=55.931227,-3.064142&amp;spn=0.000524,0.001206&amp;t=h&amp;z=20</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8490#post-85608 Tue, 25 Sep 2012 13:34:54 +0000 amir 85608@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I really don't like this "sweeping" curve</p> <p><a href="https://maps.google.co.uk/?ll=55.938358,-3.11889&amp;spn=0.000524,0.001206&amp;t=h&amp;z=20" rel="nofollow">https://maps.google.co.uk/?ll=55.938358,-3.11889&amp;spn=0.000524,0.001206&amp;t=h&amp;z=20</a></p> <p>It has several problems:<br /> - the trees mean that it can be difficult to see what's coming.<br /> - the surface is brick! Can get slippy<br /> - trees on the corner and regularly mowing adds to the slip factor<br /> - the angle is far more acute than it needs to be </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8490#post-85605 Tue, 25 Sep 2012 13:27:55 +0000 pjmatthews 85605@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>We do! Desire lines are a basic part of urban design for planners and also part of the education for landscape architects (who are actually to blame for paths like that in the photo). </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8490#post-85586 Tue, 25 Sep 2012 11:42:50 +0000 kaputnik 85586@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Sweeping curves I don't mind. they are quite navigable. The endless right-angles and deliberate misalignment where paths cross roads I do mind. No amount of tarmac and fencing will change the natural desire to follow the path of least resistance. They should teach planners that on day 1 of planning school. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8490#post-85555 Tue, 25 Sep 2012 09:57:04 +0000 Min 85555@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>It seems to me that when roads are built, they are built as far as possible in a way that gets the driver directly to where they want to go, geography and other problems permitting. </p> <p>When it comes to building paths or cycle paths, suddenly "aesthetics" comes into play and aesthetics mean big sweeping curves and meandering walkways which look pretty but which make everybody take a lot longer to get to where they are going.</p> <p>Alternatively there is the utilatarian approach of just making a cross shape, regardless of whether the arms of that cross go to where people want to go or whether people are likely to walk that cross shape rather than just to straight the the exit they want. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8490#post-85551 Tue, 25 Sep 2012 09:47:14 +0000 cb 85551@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Here's one:</p> <p><a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/39014236@N05/6776939207/"><img src="http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7034/6776939207_7b31ee8cf2.jpg"></a><br /> <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/39014236@N05/6776939207/">Desire line</a> by <a href="http://www.flickr.com/people/39014236@N05/">ccbb7766</a>, on Flickr </p>