http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: Scotland's cycling routes to get £6m revamp en Sun, 05 Apr 2026 19:41:26 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8575&page=2#post-88609 Wed, 24 Oct 2012 14:48:23 +0000 Roibeard 88609@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I decided to put the £6 million into context, so dug out the Office for National Statistics Family Spending report (2011, latest available).</p> <p>The average family spends £64.90 per week on transport, according to this report.</p> <p>Let's make this the total transport budget.</p> <p>Now, Spokes have calculated that 1% is for Active Travel, hence 65p per week, in our scaled down version.</p> <p>That's the cost of a Mars bar.</p> <p>Who spends 65p per week and considers that a financial commitment?</p> <p>And cycling is only a proportion of Active Travel...</p> <p>Unsurprisingly this is going to form the basis of my comments to my MSPs!</p> <p>Robert </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8575&page=2#post-86659 Fri, 05 Oct 2012 13:49:20 +0000 fimm 86659@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@Dave, like.</p> <p>Thank you for all the comments, everyone. I'll try to keep some of them in mind when the subject comes up again... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8575&page=2#post-86657 Fri, 05 Oct 2012 13:42:33 +0000 Peterward2008 86657@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Thanks for the links Crowriver. Will read the articles when I get home. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8575&page=2#post-86655 Fri, 05 Oct 2012 13:20:56 +0000 Dave 86655@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="http://mccraw.co.uk/snp-budget-infogram/" rel="nofollow">http://mccraw.co.uk/snp-budget-infogram/</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8575&page=2#post-86654 Fri, 05 Oct 2012 13:13:04 +0000 crowriver 86654@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>Doesn't this all become a bit moot eventually anyway as petrol costs increase and people turn to active and public transport, reserving the car for journeys of a long distance.</p> <p>If this is likely to be the direction of travel,</em></p> <p>Alas, I'm not at all convinced that it is. Cities like Edinburgh, and others down south are seeing this happen. In much of Scotland though the car is still king for journeys of almost any distance.</p> <p>The discussion on electric cars is pertinent here I think:</p> <p><a href="http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=7750" rel="nofollow">http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=7750</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8575&page=2#post-86642 Fri, 05 Oct 2012 11:33:46 +0000 Peterward2008 86642@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Agree with Morningsider and SRD.</p> <p>People scaled towns and cities is the way forward. Doesn't this all become a bit moot eventually anyway as petrol costs increase and people turn to active and public transport, reserving the car for journeys of a long distance. </p> <p>If this is likely to be the direction of travel, then the eventual need to redo infrastructure in towns and cities and how they link up, will make the cost of the Forth bridge pale by comparison. The remedial work would cost more than placing the infrastructure there in the first place. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8575#post-86636 Fri, 05 Oct 2012 10:57:40 +0000 Morningsider 86636@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>SRD - excellent points. I would go further and ask what kind of a city/country do we want to build for the future. One built on a human scale, with an emphasis on health, wellbeing and robust local communities - or one based on high speed car travel, out of town shopping centres and a focus on meeting the needs of individuals (particularly those with the means and ability to own one/two or more cars).</p> <p>Who should we look to for inspiration for the development of our towns and cities - USA (fine country though it is) or our Northern European counterparts. I know which I would prefer.</p> <p>Cycling is great - but investment in cycling can lead to so much more than just allowing people to cycle, e.g. improved health, reduced traffic accidents, reduction in air/noise pollution and so on. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8575#post-86633 Fri, 05 Oct 2012 10:44:30 +0000 chdot 86633@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"we should be pleased that any money is being spend on cycling and cycling facilities, rather than just grumbling and saying it isn't enough"</p> <p>I think that may have been more of a valid point ten years. or more, ago. </p> <p>We are now in a situation where governments worry about health, obesity, value for money etc. etc. </p> <p>They even have TARGETS. </p> <p>There's plenty of evidence about the value of exercise. </p> <p>Plenty of evidence that other countries get more people to cycle - usually involves spending money. </p> <p>Meanwhile we have more of the same - extra bridges across the Forth, stray advertising campaigns and a vain hope that LOTS more people will want to deal with the existing infrastructure and schoolchildren given a bit of training by <em>volunteers</em> - where they can be found. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8575#post-86631 Fri, 05 Oct 2012 10:41:42 +0000 SRD 86631@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>the government has set a target to get 10% of journeys by bike. every single expert at parliament said that their current spending (&lt;1%) will not et that target. Surely if they set targets then they need to implement policies and fund them? or else just admit they don't want to increase/support cycling. but they have other targets - environment and health - that are predicated on their cycling target, so one by one their policies fall. </p> <p>this is wy we MUST point out to them that these small amounts, which often need to be spent very quickly, and with little planning, are insuffiient. The expert evidence from sustrans, living streets and cycling scotland made this very clear - worth watching the videoif you have time. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8575#post-86628 Fri, 05 Oct 2012 10:38:49 +0000 minus six 86628@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>What would others say to this?</em></p> <p>i'd call it a servile and submissive outlook.</p> <p>which is certainly the conditioning expected by the status quo of implied hierarchy of road use / provision. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8575#post-86627 Fri, 05 Oct 2012 10:27:51 +0000 fimm 86627@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I was discussing this with my boyfriend last night. He was quite enthusiastic and wasn't very impressed with my somewhat lesser level of enthusiasm. He made a point that I could not really answer: that we should be pleased that any money is being spend on cycling and cycling facilities, rather than just grumbling and saying it isn't enough. What would others say to this? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8575#post-86621 Fri, 05 Oct 2012 10:10:14 +0000 Kim 86621@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>It is a shame we are not allowed to talk about how the newly announced money is to be spent, as it shows what a pitifully small amount of money it is. </p> <p>This additional spending, which Keith Brown claims is a result of "working closely with the cycling community in recent months to find out exactly what's needed to get more people in Scotland on their bikes," actually amounts to an extra 5p per head! Not the £20 per head which the "cycling community" is calling for.</p> <p>Given that it is such a small amount of money, questions should be asked as to why 20% of it is being wasted on an advertising campaign which will provide no long term benefit, unlike spending on infrastructure and training. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8575#post-86617 Fri, 05 Oct 2012 09:48:43 +0000 chdot 86617@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"<br /> Sustrans (@sustrans)<br /> 04/10/2012 11:23<br /> My view: extra funding welcome, but Scotland a long way from £20 a head needed to hit CAPS targets. tinyurl.com/6gqhlnz<br /> via @John_Lauder</p> <p>" </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8575#post-86616 Fri, 05 Oct 2012 09:46:08 +0000 Roibeard 86616@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@chdot - CCE, the new wikileaks, and hot bed of political intrigue...</p> <p>I'd suggest you don't model yourself on Assange though - although perhaps being in self inflicted house arrest in the Dutch consulate wouldn't be too bad - 127 George Street, so much more prestigious than my home!</p> <p>Robert </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8575#post-86561 Thu, 04 Oct 2012 20:21:04 +0000 crowriver 86561@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>So subsidising the purchase of Renault electric cars somehow helps bring independence closer? I fail to see the logic. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8575#post-86556 Thu, 04 Oct 2012 15:46:14 +0000 chdot 86556@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>In case anyone is looking for 'the figures' that were posted earlier, I have been asked to remove them on the basis that they were not supposed to have been made public yet. </p> <p>I have also removed a subsequent post by crowriver who quoted some of the figures. </p> <p>I'm sure Mr. Brown will be announcing the full details in the near future. </p> <p>The "official breakdown" will not change the fact that £6m is hardly a lot of money - and may or may not be 'new'. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8575#post-86553 Thu, 04 Oct 2012 14:26:52 +0000 Instography 86553@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I'm afraid to get more you'd have to convincingly show that spending on cycling would help, in some way, towards achieving independence. That's what the entire SNP Government project is about. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8575#post-86550 Thu, 04 Oct 2012 14:18:09 +0000 PS 86550@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The SNP are excellent at spin, but they are abetted by a media that just seems to accept any press release/announcement into a news story without question. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8575#post-86546 Thu, 04 Oct 2012 13:31:32 +0000 Dave 86546@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Paltry amounts, but there's no denying the SNP are excellent at spin.</p> <p>Fixing the A90 will require substantial rework (I think there is room, but it will require cash and balls, neither of which are in ready supply). The bit that's already been done from the estate down to the A90 encourages me though, as it could be so much worse. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8575#post-86529 Thu, 04 Oct 2012 10:46:02 +0000 kaputnik 86529@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="http://news.stv.tv/scotland/193180-funding-for-cycling-to-be-spent-on-improving-bike-paths-across-scotland/">STV news are also running the story</a>.</p> <p>They finish it with;</p> <p><em>Ian Aitken, chief executive of the national promotion organisation Cycling Scotland, said: "We are working with local authorities across Scotland to increase the amount of training which is delivered on-road, as opposed to in the playground, as training is far more beneficial when delivered in a live road environment.</p> <p>"This funding will enable us to support the network of over 4000 amazing volunteers that are currently delivering cycle training, increase the number of children receiving training on-road and to continue to campaign for <u>greater consideration for cyclists using the road network</u>."</em></p> <p>This is all very honourable I'm sure, but unless something has been edited out of his quote, or I am missing something - why doesn't it say something along the lines of; <em>national cycling promotion organisation Cycling Scotland is campaigning for greater infrastructure so that cyclists <strong>don't have to use the road network</strong>... </em>? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8575#post-86528 Thu, 04 Oct 2012 10:45:09 +0000 chdot 86528@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>As DdF says, press release now public. </p> <p>"<br /> Spokes CycleCampaign (@SpokesLothian)<br /> 04/10/2012 10:22<br /> £6m #cycling money <a href="http://www.transportscotland.gov.uk/news/Cycling-investment-funding" rel="nofollow">http://www.transportscotland.gov.uk/news/Cycling-investment-funding</a> better than last year's cuts thanks to campaigns but no hope for 2020 target</p> <p><a href="http://www.spokes.org.uk/wordpress/2012/09/cycling-up-very-slightly-in-budget" rel="nofollow">http://www.spokes.org.uk/wordpress/2012/09/cycling-up-very-slightly-in-budget</a></p> <p>" </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8575#post-86526 Thu, 04 Oct 2012 10:40:43 +0000 kaputnik 86526@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>To put it into context, <a href="http://news.stv.tv/scotland/301825-drive-to-increase-electric-vehicle-numbers/">this STV news article</a> gives a figure that 2010-2012 the "<em>the Scottish Government has spent £8m to allow the purchase of 270 greener vehicles</em>". Or £29.6k per vehicle.</p> <p>I'm slightly eyebrow raising at WWF Scotland's heavy involvement in this scheme. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8575#post-86525 Thu, 04 Oct 2012 10:39:11 +0000 DdF 86525@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@bax Thanks from Spokes, I think you are correct re the Scot Govt embarrassment leading to this. The fact that 3 MSPs mentioned it in the SP cycling debate was major, plus the subsequent embarrassment generated in part by the spokes posting. We've also been following it up with the MSPs.</p> <p>And <strong>the only reason that the 3 MSPs mentioned it was because a lot of individual constituents had written to them about it</strong> (again encouraged by our efforts!) This really is totally vital in the long term even if the individuals don't see anything happening immediately (or for ages).</p> <p>Biggest disappointment is that the funding is cycling money, not from the massive Forth Bridge budgets (which are funding the road accesses) or from the trunk road budgets which we've been arguing for. So that will be money that won't instead be used for cycle infrastructure elsewhere.</p> <p>We don't have any details of how much of the £6m will go to this route, or what the plans will be, but do understand some work should happen this financial year.</p> <p>Incidentally the full press release is <a href="http://www.transportscotland.gov.uk/news/Cycling-investment-funding">here</a>. It doesn't say much more, but doubtless there will be further releases on individual projects to maximise publicity. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8575#post-86523 Thu, 04 Oct 2012 10:34:13 +0000 Min 86523@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>From the link Bax posted.</p> <p><em>in places approximately one metre wide</em></p> <p>This seems rather generous. I expect it just seems even narrower than that because of the wall on one side and the trees on the other. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8575#post-86522 Thu, 04 Oct 2012 10:34:02 +0000 chdot 86522@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>We know what Keith Brown really likes -</p> <p>"<br /> Edinburgh Napier Uni (@EdinburghNapier)<br /> 25/09/2012 14:51<br /> There are now electric car charging points at each of our main campuses <a href="http://www.napier.ac.uk/media/Pages/NewsDetails.aspx?NewsID=331" rel="nofollow">http://www.napier.ac.uk/media/Pages/NewsDetails.aspx?NewsID=331</a></p> <p><img src="https://o.twimg.com/1/proxy.jpg?t=FQQVAhgpaHR0cHM6Ly90d2l0cGljLmNvbS9zaG93L2xhcmdlL2F5ODI4ZC5qcGcUBBYAEgA&amp;s=bo7f8F88-Yw4VAiHRkJtGmfw6DstqJJBadOMeZGWYc0"></p> <p>" </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8575#post-86520 Thu, 04 Oct 2012 10:24:45 +0000 minus six 86520@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>why are the SG announcing this</em></p> <p>I assume that SPOKES "<a href="http://www.spokes.org.uk/wordpress/2012/04/a90-path-disgrace-to-scotland/">Scotland's national disgrace</a>" campaign has prompted this.</p> <p>And while that's some measure of progress, nothing much is going to happen.</p> <p>We've been here before. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8575#post-86518 Thu, 04 Oct 2012 10:21:08 +0000 kaputnik 86518@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>There was some mention of "other routes" in "other places", but they'll probably drop a few kerbs and stick up a few signs around the place proclaiming it the His Royal Hoyness the Sir Sir Chris Hoy Cycle SuperHoyway.</p> <p>Improvements to the A90 route are welcome, but why are the SG announcing this when it's a route that falls entirely within Edinburgh. Should it not be being dealt with at the cooncil level? Again I think the cynicism about calling this "improvements to the LEJOG route" is for news management purposes. LEJOG upgrades won't get people out of cars, but local upgrades to key commuter routes just might... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8575#post-86511 Thu, 04 Oct 2012 09:45:31 +0000 Instography 86511@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I fear Roibeard's cynicism (although it's really scepticism) is well placed. £6m would get you nowhere but the SNP have become very astute news managers and understand that once money moves into the millions, the public is largely incapable of differentiating amounts. Their paltry £6m sounds like a huge amount and including Lands End to John O Groats confirms this. In reality £6m won't go far in tarmac but it'll put a lot of hi viz on lots of little shoulders. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8575#post-86510 Thu, 04 Oct 2012 09:38:56 +0000 Roibeard 86510@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Sorry folks, much more cynical here - I read it as being a little money for new infrastructure and a lot of money to teach children on how to keep themselves safe on the existing infrastructure...</p> <p>Clearly it's a lack of skills and education on our part that causes motorists to drive at, or into, us.</p> <p>Nothing at all to do with infrastructure engineered for conflict...</p> <p>&lt;grump&gt;</p> <p>Robert </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8575#post-86508 Thu, 04 Oct 2012 09:30:41 +0000 PS 86508@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Yes, unless a new cyclepath is built on stilts, there just isn't room to fit in a cyclepath of adequate width between the estate wall and the A90. </p> <p>Of course, that assumes that the cyclepath will be of adequate width, which for this stretch I would define as wide enough for three if not four bikes. However, I fear that that is not what is intended.</p> <p>@bax You're right, that's exactly what the Dutch would do. There were some interesting helicopter shots of the World Road Race Championships in Limburg a couple of weeks ago - alongside the road between two relatively small villages there was a nice, broad cyclepath in the adjacent field. </p>