http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: "Cheaper to commute to Edinburgh than live there, new study shows" en Thu, 21 May 2026 22:55:26 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8693&page=2#post-88249 Sat, 20 Oct 2012 09:26:03 +0000 gembo 88249@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>We lived in centre of town in flat with quite groovy internal kitchen with double doors onto the front room and double doors onto the back room (there was also a side room that was our bedroom) and a cellar for all our junk. You could open the doors of a summer evening all tres chic until second child who is a boy called Buster (not real name) came along. Now this lad could slam a door and we spent a very long time trying to find a flat with more space in various areas of north east and south east edinburgh. All to no avail. This was eleven years ago so might be different now but a larger, old crumbling property on the main road was cheaper in balerno than the flats we looked at nearer the town centre (eg Porty). Sorry to bore with these details but we kind of drifted to the suburbs without a real plan. The main road is an issue. The point is that it is not as simple as living in Edinburgh / commuting. Clearly property in for example Bingham is quite cheap? Property in the rather chi-chi villagey part of Livingston known as Bellsquarry is quite dear?</p> <p>i was less fit ten years ago than I am now and planned to go down WoL path on a brompton as the main road is an issue. And come back on the bus. But ended up commuting both ways, initially on path, then road, canal, path if dry. Lucky breaks for me.</p> <p>Alas, we have even more junk now than ever before. I also have big amount of junk at work and I am being hassled to learn of the advantage of "work style" as my office moving back into town centre which means bigger commute which I am happy about. Time for one of my regular calls to Colinton Skip Hire.</p> <p>With Ratho when children are secondary school age there is a free school bus to Balerno. But if staying at school for clubs etc you are stuck. There is now also a proper bus service to Ratho and the bridge inn is well posh now plus climbing centre cafe is groovy. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8693&page=2#post-88246 Fri, 19 Oct 2012 21:30:36 +0000 PS 88246@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Location, location, location... ;-)</p> <p>I've never been a fan on the concept of the commute, so I've always lived within 20 mins walk of work in the city centre. This is obviously helped by being office-based, and working for the same employer for 15 years, but it's been manageable from earning a trainee's salary to what I'm on now. </p> <p>Depends what you want though. I cannot begin to imagine living in a land-hungry housing estate now, but living in flats we've never had a garden. Swings and roundabouts. Never had room for them either. I'm a fan of densely populated cities, places where people live above the shop, so I should really walk the walk, yes? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8693&page=2#post-88232 Fri, 19 Oct 2012 17:40:09 +0000 Instography 88232@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>These things are fraught with over-generalisations so, yeah, there's bound to be nice bits of West Lothian. I guess overall, in the scheme of things, you make a lifestyle choice about what it is you like, you work out what your priorities are and you make the best of what's left.</p> <p>I suppose because I work in Edinburgh I feel like I can take advantage of all the things it offers during the day and in the evening when I want it but I get to leave it behind when I'm done with it. The only time I'd say I miss it is the occasional weekend but we've been known to dump kids and book into a hotel in Edinburgh (or Glasgow) and be townies. We do that in the way that city-dwellers might escape to the country for a weekend. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8693&page=2#post-88221 Fri, 19 Oct 2012 15:52:22 +0000 Baldcyclist 88221@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Torphicen is nice too, when I was going through my "I'm going to do a self build rather than buy a box" phase, I seriously considered buying a plot in Torphicen.</p> <p>Must admit the 'Livingston' thing never occurred to me as I grew up there, remember when the 'posh' houses started appearing at Deer Park, we used to refer to Deer Park as 'Ramsey Street'.</p> <p>One thing I weirdly miss about Livingston is the ability to cycle in any direction, and find countryside, can't do that in Burntisland. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8693&page=2#post-88216 Fri, 19 Oct 2012 15:49:03 +0000 Nelly 88216@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>K - 'a pub on the corner' - until last week !!</p> <p>As to the rest of your points, spot on - Some of the reasons I love living in the (south side of) edinburgh is the local shops/pubs/cinemas/cafes/bike shops to name a few - all of which, incidentally I have utilised in the last 24 hours - by bike/walk.</p> <p>I could have bought the new windproof gloves on t'interweb but I wouldnt have had the pleasure of a 2-3 hour pootle round the southside today, via a few bike shops, stopping to have a coffee/panini, browse charity shops for books etc, all within 2-3 miles radius of my house including a wee trip up to the castle just for fun.</p> <p>That freedom to do whatever I want without having to worry about the travel aspect is why I love living here. It is also, as crowriver said, a great place to bring up kids. I can walk to the meadows in 3 minutes, princes street in 15 (and I walk home from nights out).</p> <p>It may cost a few quid more, but IMO its worth it. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8693&page=2#post-88215 Fri, 19 Oct 2012 15:40:38 +0000 crowriver 88215@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>West Lothian is different to the extent that it lacks the affluent and pretty towns. </em></p> <p>Linlithgow?<br /> West or Mid Calder?<br /> Winchburgh has its moments too, except for the shale bings.</p> <p>Admittedly none of these are St Andrews or the East Neuk, but still. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8693&page=2#post-88214 Fri, 19 Oct 2012 15:38:07 +0000 wee folding bike 88214@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I lived in rural Ayrshire through primary and early secondary school. I wouldn't take my kids that far out of town. Anytime we wanted to join a club or learn how to play the accordion we had to get a lift into Ayr as the busses were far and few and we weren't old enough to use them on our own anyway. </p> <p>Airdrie suffers from being close to Glasgow so if you want to do things you go to the city. There are Cubs and other stuff for boys but Glasgow has more activities. That's why there was a Pashley sitting near the Theatre Royal on Wednesday. Nice covered bike racks outside the RSAMD. </p> <p>The memsahib already had a house and primary school son when we got hitched so there hasn't been much option to move. I don't mind being the only gay in the village. It makes me very identifiable but I don't do anything naughty like RLJ so it's ok. People I don't know wave to me and I appear on the Facebooks. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8693&page=2#post-88213 Fri, 19 Oct 2012 15:34:43 +0000 kaputnik 88213@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@Instography Linlithgow?</p> <p>Cue some generalisations, but it is vey notable at my work that the only people who seem to actually live in Edinburgh "proper" (towards city rather than on outskirts / suburbs) are either younger tenement dwellers like myself or the directors with their New Town pied-a-terres.</p> <p>Vast majority of people dwell in West Lothian and Fife. As you move up the managerial or down the clerical pay grade then you could probably get a map out and do some crude socio-economic generalisations. </p> <p>I've never got the Livingston thing myself, in the nicest possible way it's one of the most horrible, soul-less towns I've ever had the displeasure of visiting. But if you want a detached pad with ample parking and you like driving to work and driving to shopping barns and designer outlets, I guess it's for you! Then again I've also never got the people of my socio-economic banding who want to live in towns in a tenement and expect to be able to park their car at the front door, along with the other 24 people who live in their stair!</p> <p>I like being in town and having a big park on my front door, a nice back green that catches the (odd bit of) evening sunshine, a pub on the corner and some reasonably good shops on mine or the next street. And I like that in Edinburgh that the countryside or the seaside is only 20 minutes cycle away. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8693&page=2#post-88211 Fri, 19 Oct 2012 14:53:26 +0000 minus six 88211@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I kid myself on that I moved to Fife specifically to increase my cycle commute.</p> <p>Realistically I just got fed up of the living costs in town.</p> <p>The allure of city life diminishes quickly when no longer chasing the scene.</p> <p>Also, the advent of internet means there's no more essential routine trawling round book shops or music shops for cultural nourishment.</p> <p>I wouldn't move back now. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8693&page=2#post-88210 Fri, 19 Oct 2012 14:53:03 +0000 Instography 88210@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>West Lothian is different to the extent that it lacks the affluent and pretty towns. It has plenty of the deprivation. It shares with Fife almost total deindustrialisation: Bathgate no more, Methil no more, etc. And now Broxburn. But there's no St Andrews, Elie, Anstruther, Crail, North Queensferry (even bits of Kirkcaldy) equivalents in West Lothian. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8693#post-88209 Fri, 19 Oct 2012 14:37:22 +0000 Baldcyclist 88209@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"Villages, especially those within reasonable distance of Edinburgh or Glasgow, have too many commuters and too much population turnover..."</p> <p>Slightly off topic, Tom mentioned something about cycling to local shops rather than taking car to.</p> <p>Since moving to Fife, I sometimes wonder how much I actually contribute to the local economy, and do I really make a difference to it? Fife (a little like some bits of East Lothian) has a lot of deprivation, but also a lot of wealth.</p> <p>It's full of wealthy commuters who live in the affluent and pretty coastal towns who essentially just ferry themselves in and out of Edinburgh, but then go inland and you find sprawling housing schemes with lots of deprivation, and little prospect for those that live in them.</p> <p>Never noticed this when living in West Lothian, maybe there was less of a contrast, don't know.</p> <p>Must admit, I have tried to spend my money in Fife since moving, but not really sure of how successful I have been, or how to even measure that? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8693#post-88207 Fri, 19 Oct 2012 14:18:49 +0000 Instography 88207@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Although I'm not car-free by any means, I don't get any sense that people think it's odd to make journeys by bike that most people would make by car. Nor do they think it's odd that I leave two cars sitting in the drive and use a bike instead. Admirable or brave, maybe, but the people I know tend to see car use as something they should be doing less, even if they lack the organisation, will or interest to actually do it. They tend to see it as something good for the kids or good for my health rather than a freakish choice of transport.</p> <p>Villages, especially those within reasonable distance of Edinburgh or Glasgow, have too many commuters and too much population turnover to fully conform to the stereotypes. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8693#post-88202 Fri, 19 Oct 2012 13:56:03 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 88202@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"<em>Maybe you didn't: what about the local kids' view of you?</em>"</p> <p>Well given we played with them quite happily...</p> <p>"<em>Then there were the kids from Asian or Afro-Caribbean familes, not very many back then</em>"</p> <p>In the wee village of Ellon, being from Newcastle we were about as exotic as it came, until in P6 a black kid called Jade joined the school. He was only there a year, but I don't remember any bother (his parents may have had a different deal).</p> <p>But yes, I think times are a little different now with kids - ah, all seemed so innocent back then.</p> <p>And secondary school... Different kettle of fish. Not for me, given I'd grown up there since I was 4, I was <em>almost</em> a local by then. Any kids coming in from elsewhere (even if it was Peterhead or Aberdeen) were... 'different'. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8693#post-88201 Fri, 19 Oct 2012 13:51:16 +0000 crowriver 88201@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>Apparently when my family first moved north from Englandshire, when I was 4, to a small Aberdeenshire village, my parents did 'suffer' some prejudice, but I've no real idea what the form was </em></p> <p>I don't have much experience of rural living in mainland Scotland, but I lived in Orkney for a number of years. The islands are different, I think: a bit more welcoming of outsiders in many ways. However there is a definite divide between 'incomers' and native Orcadians, though (usually) this is/was only politely referred to on occasion.</p> <p><em>(whereas kids being kids we got on with whoever, even if they spoke funny, because we haven't been taught any prejudices yet).</em></p> <p>Maybe you didn't: what about the local kids' view of you? </p> <p>I recall even at primary school there were various prejudices against 'buggies' (I am not referring to baby transporters here), 'gyppos' and anyone who was very obviously poor or 'too posh' or even just not local. Then there were the kids from Asian or Afro-Caribbean familes, not very many back then. Of course most children knew they were not <em>supposed</em> to call others names, fight, and so on, but when has that ever stopped anyone? At secondary school, well you had the whole spectrum reflecting the adult world.</p> <p>Things have changed, but I do think kids develop some prejudices quite early on, whether learned from family, media, or peers.</p> <p>Edinburgh's a very international place (at least as far as Scotland goes), people (and kids) from all over the world live here without too much aggro. Further north, it's a different mix: things are changing everywhere, but maybe a bit more slowly in some places than others.</p> <p><em>I suppose what I also meant is that I never really saw you as someone who would be bothered by curtain-twitchers and their views </em></p> <p>In a city or large town, you can pretty much ignore them and do your own thing. Somewhere smaller or more rural, it's more difficult to do so as their influence is likely to be stronger in the community. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8693#post-88191 Fri, 19 Oct 2012 13:26:35 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 88191@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Interesting. Apparently when my family first moved north from Englandshire, when I was 4, to a small Aberdeenshire village, my parents did 'suffer' some prejudice, but I've no real idea what the form was (whereas kids being kids we got on with whoever, even if they spoke funny, because we haven't been taught any prejudices yet).</p> <p>I hadn't really considered it in light of the choice to live car-free, but you're right, in terms of public transport and so on I'd imagine many people would see it as odd and 'limiting' when living outside the urban sprawl.</p> <p>I suppose what I also meant is that I never really saw you as someone who would be bothered by curtain-twitchers and their views (and I mean this in a good way!). </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8693#post-88190 Fri, 19 Oct 2012 13:20:02 +0000 crowriver 88190@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>Given you already live car-free this is actually slightly surprising.</em></p> <p>I suppose the point is that although it is relatively unusual in a city like Edinburgh, there are a substantial minority who do not own a car. Not many families, granted, but enough of the population that it doesn't seem completely freakish to do without.</p> <p>Public transport is often so bad outside the bigger cities that the minority who do not have a car is much, much smaller. Hence the incidence of others looking at the carless with prejudice will likely be much higher. I only have to look to some of my own relatives (quite a few live in Fife) to see evidence of this! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8693#post-88184 Fri, 19 Oct 2012 13:01:34 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 88184@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"<em>I would worry about the reactions of neighbours</em>"</p> <p>Given you already live car-free this is actually slightly surprising.</p> <p>We've always had it in the plan to move out of the city. Primarily because neither of us particular like city-living, and these days with home-supermarket-shopping it makes life a little easier too. And, we'd kinda like to expand beyond the raised beds and three chooks we have just now (including, possibly, goats, sheep and pigs) and unless you're Tom and Barbara that's not gonna work in the 'burbs. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8693#post-88182 Fri, 19 Oct 2012 12:59:43 +0000 Cyclingmollie 88182@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>We estimated that house prices fell by about £10,000 with each mile further we looked from the city centre. We have good bus and train connections to Edinburgh but it's perhaps a comment on what there is to do here that we use those connections <em>a lot</em>. We go into Edinburgh at least once a week. Coping without a car would be quite easy. We're trying to cope without Tesco for the month of October. So we've replaced walking to SuperTesco with trips to local shops on foot and by bike. It helps to live within a Mediaeval street plan though. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8693#post-88181 Fri, 19 Oct 2012 12:56:59 +0000 steveo 88181@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>WFB has related that feeling in the past. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8693#post-88178 Fri, 19 Oct 2012 12:33:46 +0000 crowriver 88178@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I suppose the other thing that puts me off moving somewhere smaller is that life outside the cities seems to revolve more around the car. Sure, parts of Fife are quite well connected via rail, but getting to a station can be problematic in some areas. Which means living in a town, which normally means at least some of the same issues as living in a city. Then if you are close to a station, there's the problem of getting to a supermarket (usually out of town).</p> <p>I do know one person who lives car-free with two kids in Newport-on-Tay. I suppose she just gets her shopping delivered... Kids bus it to school in St Andrews. It's so rare to live car-free outside the cities though that I would worry about the reactions of neighbours. The "only gay in the village" syndrome... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8693#post-88176 Fri, 19 Oct 2012 12:18:22 +0000 Instography 88176@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>" ... museums, galleries, theatre, cinemas, visitor attractions. "</p> <p>but Edinburgh's only half an hour away and Fife has those things too. Those things are easy enough to do when you want to. What counts more is everyday differences. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8693#post-88164 Fri, 19 Oct 2012 11:28:49 +0000 Peterward2008 88164@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@chdot</p> <p>All fair points. </p> <p>I would assume the place you want to live would drive a lot of those decisions (a prime reason in a couple of job changes has been the desire to move somewhere new!). It also depends on how 'settled' you are in a place too. </p> <p>The cost factor that I always consider is the cost of a train or bus season ticket as I don't drive. I always aim to be within a short or mid-range cycle commute from work if I can manage it and the property is affordable to enable that. Failing that it would be the time and financial cost of a train/bus journey twice a day. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8693#post-88163 Fri, 19 Oct 2012 11:25:19 +0000 crowriver 88163@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>You can at least tell when the school's good because the price of property is much higher</em></p> <p>That equation doesn't really work for the New Town or Stockbridge, though. I'm guessing most parents in those areas send their kids to private schools or play the 'out of catchment placement request' lottery...</p> <p><em>In reality it probably involves a 'I have £Xs, do I buy a modest flat in town, or a detached house out of town?', so the spend on property will be the same. Rarely do people buy something cheaper than they would have bought in town, so it probably costs more to live outside of town in reality.</em></p> <p>Exactly.</p> <p><em>I find it works this way: having kids curtails the frequency and/or duration of most of the activities you used to do that involved the things that cities are good at (pubs, cinemas, working stupid hours etc)</em></p> <p>Also true. However I do find there are lots of great things for kids to do in Edinburgh too: museums, galleries, theatre, cinemas, visitor attractions.....not that we use them all the time, but I can imagine if we lived in (say) Fife we wouldn't use them at all.</p> <p>It's really tricky. The whole school catchment thing is very difficult in this city.</p> <p><em>Changing jobs is always another factor - one reason why 'central belt' attracts people as they have Glasgow/Edinburgh (etc.) job options.</em></p> <p>Which is why we've stayed in Edinburgh despite work being in Tayside! On the face of it madness, but if we had moved we might be a bit stuck if anything happened to our employment... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8693#post-88161 Fri, 19 Oct 2012 11:20:04 +0000 kaputnik 88161@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Of course should have realised this is a study by Bank of Scotland bean counters, so they will have taken the view that happiness and contentedness with life is directly proportional to the size of your house or the mortgage upon it. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8693#post-88160 Fri, 19 Oct 2012 11:18:37 +0000 chdot 88160@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"in that respect location comes a distant second to price"</p> <p>But how (much) will you factor in distance/time/cost from work?</p> <p>Do you expect to be in same work place/area for all that time?</p> <p>Changing jobs is always another factor - one reason why 'central belt' attracts people as they have Glasgow/Edinburgh (etc.) job options. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8693#post-88158 Fri, 19 Oct 2012 11:16:47 +0000 DaveC 88158@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>We used to live in Easter Road and walk for an hour each way to Haymarket. I'd occatioanlly get the 22 bus in rainly or bad weather. We moved to East Anglia and I drove |35 mins each way. It was much cheeper to live in Suffolk instead of near work in Cambridge. I lived on the quiet side of Cambridgeshire. We could have afforded similar sized houses in either but Suffolk was a nice semi in a quiet area in a nice town. in camb we looked at a bank reposetion which would have needed 25K worth of repairs and we have no spare cash.</p> <p>Now I live in Dalgety Bay (partly as we have freinds there). It has cheeper houses than Edinburgh, train st, bus transport every 10 mins at commuter times (an hour outside commuter times), lovely coast access with Aberdour and Burtisland nearby. The cycle in was dauntng at first but now its fine even in winter. I still only cycle 2-3 times a week, getting the bus in as its door to door and 1/2 the price of the train. The train suffers from overcrowding, delays and cancellations in winter - which the bus NEVER does unless they close the bridge, in which case I'm stuffed either way. The cycle takes the same amount of time as the bus, seriously!</p> <p>Now I consider that if I lived closer to my place of work I'd cycle 5 times a week but have a mate who is moving to a job in Livingston. He lives in Whitburn and thinks he'll have to ride in a circular route to keep his miles up. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8693#post-88157 Fri, 19 Oct 2012 11:16:25 +0000 kaputnik 88157@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Perfectly possible to live on one side of Edinburgh and work on the other and for it to take you over an hour to get from A to B (each way). Spent one summer from uni living at Parent's house (Corstorphine) and working at Scottish Power (Portobello). Was a direct bus service on the 26, but it took at least 40 minutes on a good day and could take well over an hour when Princes Street was busy. Was quicker to get off at one end, walk down it, and get on another bus to Corstorphine at Haymarket. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8693#post-88156 Fri, 19 Oct 2012 11:12:31 +0000 Peterward2008 88156@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Strangely or maybe not.</p> <p>The decision on where to live is similar to that on how to commute to work... Ie for me weighing up the relative costs and benefits of one mode of transport vs another. </p> <p>As has been stated elsewhere, the really expensive areas of the city probably skew this significantly (a house in Barnton went on the market for £2m earlier this week). There are plenty of fairly centrally located properties at a lot less than that amount and in some places less than £100k (generally flats though). </p> <p>The decision for me anyway, when we come to move will be based on the type of house we need for the next 10-20 years and in that respect location comes a distant second to price. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8693#post-88155 Fri, 19 Oct 2012 10:59:49 +0000 Nelly 88155@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I cant really comment on the 'out of town' life, as apart from living abroad as a kid, I have always lived in edinburgh.</p> <p>I do see the attraction of living outside a city, and we do go away to stay with friends/family a lot.</p> <p>My wife was brought up in bridge of allan, so knows the pros/cons of village life - we did contemplate a move for a while, but discounted it, not least as property there is at least as expensive as edinburgh! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8693#post-88151 Fri, 19 Oct 2012 10:48:40 +0000 Instography 88151@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Sure but you weigh these things up. You try to evaluate the various costs and intangibles. I suppose it doesn't become clear until you've been living it for a while and you consider whether, knowing what you now know, would you move back? Sometimes it's a pain but everywhere's a pain sometimes. </p>