http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: obtuse vendors en Sun, 31 May 2026 08:03:29 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=898&page=2#post-8378 Mon, 14 Jun 2010 19:38:21 +0000 gembo 8378@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@BlackMagick - you touch on an interesting general issue in the worl of bike maintennance - know it all customers. Indeed the world of all service industry. There was an earlier string so not sure if my whole context came across. I am a fan of Mr F and very nearly encouraged Recombodna to return to the shop. The faults of the tricross are legendary - judder on carbon forks with canti brakes, tricross then went for v-type which are incredibly spongy and have gone back to a touring style canti. Following my dealings with Mr F I did approach original vendor and back to provider. Specialized who make distinction between a fault and a 'characteristic'. Mr F's thought provoking and robust analysis of my bike did prompt me to this course of action. I salute him. Plus I spotted someone with my Mark 2 Tricross had retro-fitted canti on back brake. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=898&page=2#post-8374 Mon, 14 Jun 2010 17:40:34 +0000 SRD 8374@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>BlackMagick: No need top apologize. quite understood that you were responding to particular type of case. Was merely trying to highlight the other end of the spectrum. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=898&page=2#post-8373 Mon, 14 Jun 2010 17:05:15 +0000 BlackMagick 8373@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>my apologies SRD, my response is really a generalisation based on my own experience, and was in no way targeted at a specific individual.</p> <p>I guess what might have been misleading is that I started with "@SRD" when I guess I should really have said "in response to SRD"</p> <p>what I will say tho is;<br /> the fact you understand the limits of your knowledge but express an interest in the workings of things, means you're open to learn.</p> <p>my response was directed towards "person A" who thinks they know everything, and when confronted with "person B" who knows MORE than they do, the easiest avenue for "person A" to follow is; "clearly "person B" doesn't know what they're talking about! I read on the internet somewhere... etc. etc. etc." we've all heard it before. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=898&page=2#post-8307 Mon, 14 Jun 2010 09:52:42 +0000 recombodna 8307@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>You know how it is .....you've just spread some butter and marmite on your toast ....you're typing and the f***er slips off 2 keys at the same time and before you know it you've inadvertantly offended someone.........er... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=898&page=2#post-8306 Mon, 14 Jun 2010 09:45:17 +0000 spytfyre 8306@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@recombodna - interesting I see T**T - so is there some auto editing? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=898&page=2#post-8305 Mon, 14 Jun 2010 09:43:32 +0000 recombodna 8305@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@spytfyre. I was agreeing with Liz when I said THAT would also work. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=898&page=2#post-8298 Mon, 14 Jun 2010 09:10:05 +0000 SRD 8298@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Blackmagick: Yes, but I guess I am also reading this in a particular way. As (a) a woman and (b) a pretty totally uninformed bike user (conforming to stereotype that others are working mightily to demolish), I am inclined to say something like 'gee there's something funny with my gears' (or whatever). Now, that doesn't mean I want to be condescended to, or treated like an idiot. It just means I am admitting my ignorance. I also like to have the problem and the fix explained - again in a way that I can make sense out of - I like to think I'm not stupid, just not particularly expert in the mechanics of bikes. So, while I don't claim expertise, that still doesn't mean I want to be made fun of (or worse - have work done that doesn't need to be done/parts recommended that aren't needed). </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=898&page=2#post-8297 Sun, 13 Jun 2010 22:53:09 +0000 BlackMagick 8297@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@SRD</p> <p>I couldn't agree more, the problem occurs when the recipient thinks they know more than they actually do, this alone is a cause of embarrassment, and in any environment this is going to happen occasionally.</p> <p>some individuals respect others for pointing out things they missed, some take offence and feel they're being slighted.</p> <p>personally I respect someone who gives straight and direct answers, having extensive retail experience I find that 98 times out 100 the customer does too. but you can't get it right all of the time.</p> <p>I'm not out to defend or defame either party, I'm more interested in getting to the root of the problem, since this thread has the feel of a bruised ego rather than a poor retailer. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=898&page=2#post-8296 Sun, 13 Jun 2010 22:41:08 +0000 SRD 8296@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>There are ways of telling people that they've got something wrong without making them feel like an idiot, or even letting them know you think they're an idiot. </p> <p>Yes, a good mechanic/retailer needs to tell customer if something is wrong, but there are ways of doing this that don't embarrass them. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=898&page=2#post-8295 Sun, 13 Jun 2010 22:27:47 +0000 BlackMagick 8295@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Quoting GEMBO;<br /> "Mr F was quite funny when I phoned to see if my bike was ready for collection [I stress he did adequate repairs in very quick time]. "ah, right, the Tricross," he said "I've made some notes." There then followed <strong>lengthy disection of the faults of the bike and by implication ME</strong>. Now don't get me wrong, the faults are accurate."</p> <p>I'm somewhat concerned as to how the vendor, and time served mechanic, "implied" that you were at fault? presumably sparking this bordering on (if not entirely) defamatory thread...</p> <p>if a second-opinion has resulted in potential faults being identified, and then described in detail as to their nature. then SURELY the problem should be with the vendor you purchased the bike from, and not the vendor who took the time to identify these faults?</p> <p>or perhaps the problem is more personal in nature, in that it identified a lack of knowledge and <strong>experience</strong> on your part? and you're taking the hump because YOU never spotted these issues.</p> <p>and the experience is highlighted since I'm a mechanic myself with nearly five years under my belt, and there's plenty *I* don't know. before you decide to question my credentials of course. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=898&page=2#post-8290 Sun, 13 Jun 2010 19:48:29 +0000 gembo 8290@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Following sound advice of Mr Freewheelin. and many tales above, I have replaced front wheel with very caved rim. Schwalbe Marathon Plus tyres went on using my thumbs but I now have quite sore thumbs. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=898&page=2#post-8287 Sun, 13 Jun 2010 17:12:45 +0000 SRD 8287@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Wasn't anyone watching Ghana cream Serbia? (have had a soft spot for the Black Stars since we saw them play Japan at Easter Road before the last Cup). </p> <p>Anyway, not sure saying you don't like someone, or even that they're curmudgeonly counts as defamation. Could be wrong though - no expertise whatsoever in that sort of law.</p> <p>But, quite agree with Mr Spytfyre, the thread does seem to have descended a bit below what we might wish for... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=898&page=2#post-8285 Sun, 13 Jun 2010 15:18:17 +0000 spytfyre 8285@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@Liz - whatever, I was merely suggesting someone could start a new topic on wheels...<br /> it's all very clever attacking a man's character when he is not here to defend himself, I think I will print this thread and take it in to the shop and allow him to comment...<br /> @recombodna - "RULES No personal insults. No swearing."<br /> I think you just broke both...<br /> In fact this whole thread has pretty much descended into a personal insult directed at ONE vendor who could claim defamation </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=898#post-8271 Sat, 12 Jun 2010 14:13:51 +0000 recombodna 8271@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>T**T would also work. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=898#post-8268 Sat, 12 Jun 2010 10:56:49 +0000 Claggy Cog 8268@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>obtuse adj. , -tuser , -tusest . Lacking quickness of perception or intellect. Characterized by a lack of intelligence or sensitivity. Etymology: Middle English, from Latin obtusus blunt, dull, from past participle of obtundere to beat against, blunt, from ob- against + tundere to beat ...Obtuse is similar in meaning to myopic. Sounds like the shop owner is actually quite knowledgeable about his given subject. Myopia is shortsightedness and he may well be metaphorically in that he is unable to see how is attitude puts people off.</p> <p>I think curmudgeonly would suit better. 1 archaic : miser 2 : a crusty, ill-tempered, and usually old man. ...An ill-tempered person full of resentment and stubborn notions....They're neither warped nor evil at heart. They don't hate mankind, just mankind's absurdities. ...— cur·mud·geon·li·ness \-lē-nəs\ noun. — cur·mud·geon·ly \-lē\ adjective [Origin unknown.] curmudgeon [kɜːˈmʌdʒən] </p> <p>He is, however, not a very good clairvoyant, but one thing for sure is if he has told you that your wheel rim will fail, no matter the timescale, it will if you don't change it, if it is old and neglected!!</p> <p>Is that better Spytfire back on subject!! Discussing personalities.</p> <p>I was going to add a photo of my spectacularly, catastrophic, blown rim, but I won't bother now. I will say the bike shop owner that supplied my new wheel was absolutely marvellous in my opinion, even though I never met him, he saved the day, for which I will be eternally (well in my lifetime at least) thankful. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=898#post-8259 Fri, 11 Jun 2010 18:41:46 +0000 spytfyre 8259@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>off topic much? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=898#post-8258 Fri, 11 Jun 2010 18:30:29 +0000 Claggy Cog 8258@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <br /> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=898#post-8255 Fri, 11 Jun 2010 17:57:21 +0000 Claggy Cog 8255@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"When a wheel fails does it just start rolling badly or is it *foof* implodes, rider over handlebars etc."<br /> In response to the above from Stepdoh I can now report what happens....well in my case I noticed that the front wheel had developed a distinct wobble, so much so it was rubbing against the brake blocks badly in one part, I thought I might have a few broken spokes. I continued my journey and was actually going quite slowly when there was a sudden very loud bang, I thought my inner tube had exploded, and then the front of my bike started a slow descent. There was a long strip of aluminium trashing about impeding me as well as the fact that my front wheel just collapsed. I did not go over the handlebars. I was fortunate enough to be going slowly at the time, on the flat, otherwise it could have been really, really nasty. However, I was in Fife at the time in a very small village with no bike shop, no bank, well really nothing much other than a pub and a couple of village shops. I was rescued by a very nice couple on a tandem who cycled to the nearest bike shop (four miles away) and purchased me a cheap wheel and returned with said, to allow me to get home to Edinburgh, the nearest other bike shops were some 15 to 20 miles away. My tyre was fine, the inner tube however was shredded and unsalvagable, but I always carry a spare. So my advice to you is check your rims regularly if you wheels are quite old and you use your bike regularly. If you suddenly develop serious wheel wobble, stop and let some air out and so decrease the pressure on the rim and hope to break down, if you do, near a bike shop, on the flat when going slowly. In hot weather the air in your tyres will expand and put more pressure on the rims, bear this in mind when you pump up your tyres to brick hard on a hot day, so increasing your chances of rim failure. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=898#post-8251 Fri, 11 Jun 2010 15:44:21 +0000 cb 8251@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I trashed a back wheel by overloading the bike on a two week tour of the Outer Hebrides in '97. It was a mountain bike, probably not designed to carry that much weight.<br /> All the weight was on the back (two panniers plus a rucksack on top of the rack). I could only *just* lift the bike!<br /> The wheel didn't actually break and I didn't notice the cracks in the rim until after I got back home.</p> <p>In fact the only breakdown that trip was a snapped gear cable which I knew was on the way out before I left so I had a spare. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=898#post-8250 Fri, 11 Jun 2010 15:33:49 +0000 chdot 8250@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@effemm - good illustration.</p> <p><em>Some</em> people have this problem because they don't replace their brake blocks soon enough and gouge the rim with either the metal shoe (bad alignment makes this more likely) or the metal that the braking material is bonded to.</p> <p>So if you ever hear metal on metal when using rim brakes STOP using them and replace blocks rapidly. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=898#post-8247 Fri, 11 Jun 2010 14:31:54 +0000 Stepdoh 8247@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>ahh, I actually think I'm more likely to come across that last one rather than spoke failure. My rims are getting worn, but too tight to shell out for a new wheel </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=898#post-8246 Fri, 11 Jun 2010 14:07:16 +0000 cb 8246@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"My wife took a dive once when the front mudgaurd holder on her Raleigh cameo snapped sending the mudgaurd up into the gap between the wheel and forks."</p> <p>Interesting you mention this as <a href="http://www.edinburghbicycle.com/comms/srv.a4d?f_pg=news.htm">today's Edinburgh Bicycle newsletter</a> has a product recall for mud guards that sound like they have potential to do the same.</p> <p>I don't think I've seen a bike product recall before. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=898#post-8245 Fri, 11 Jun 2010 13:51:11 +0000 effemm 8245@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>My "favourite" experience of wheel failure - something other than dents, broken spokes etc, none of which generally render the wheel unrideable - is when the braking surface is worn so concave and thin that it splits along an arc. The tyre bead comes off, the tube explodes, and the separated rim section jams - rather abruptly - in the brake:</p> <p><img src="http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4022/4308713715_0a0a1d0c59.jpg"></p> <p>Rear wheel is bad, front is spectacular. Happened to me three times now, the sad (but not inevitable) result of a heavy cheapskate riding hard through the winter and not cleaning his blocks/rims. Bring on the disc brakes! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=898#post-8243 Fri, 11 Jun 2010 12:39:43 +0000 recombodna 8243@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>i've had a few wheels destoyed at polo and always managed to ride home on them.I've ridden for weeks with broken spokes and never had a problem. i rekon you'd have to have a lot of spokes broken to have a catastrophic failure. If the bearings are dry and seize on you or the axle breaks you would probably take a dive. My wife took a dive once when the front mudgaurd holder on her Raleigh cameo snapped sending the mudgaurd up into the gap between the wheel and forks. She went over the handle bars and shattered her elbow very nasty.Required surgery and pins and she still has the scar 12 years later. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=898#post-8240 Fri, 11 Jun 2010 12:22:36 +0000 SRD 8240@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Stepdoh - thanks for asking that. I was wondering too... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=898#post-8239 Fri, 11 Jun 2010 12:11:21 +0000 Stepdoh 8239@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>When a wheel fails does it just start rolling badly or is it *foof* implodes, rider over handlebars etc. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=898#post-8235 Fri, 11 Jun 2010 11:39:07 +0000 gembo 8235@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I have done it, two weeks at 100 miles a week (well my commute slightly shorter now) on canal towpath and slightly poorer surfaces of roads of edinburgh, but since then I have done another 4 weeks beyond the prediction. Every day I get on the bike thinking it will be the last for the old front wheel. New one sitting in garage waiting. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=898#post-8189 Thu, 10 Jun 2010 11:25:52 +0000 recombodna 8189@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Yeah DO IT! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=898#post-8187 Thu, 10 Jun 2010 10:58:32 +0000 Dave 8187@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Only one way to find out - ride it until it collapses and let us know! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=898#post-8186 Thu, 10 Jun 2010 09:39:41 +0000 recombodna 8186@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>'Mr Freewheelin's prediction that front wheel only had two weeks left at max"</p> <p>Two weeks? so is that two weeks sitting in your house or two weeks riding 100 miles a day? or wot? ;-) </p>