http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: Toucan crossings en Wed, 13 May 2026 04:52:01 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8993&page=2#post-232740 Mon, 03 Oct 2016 12:40:05 +0000 ih 232740@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@kaputnik <em> I thought (and could quite probably be wrong) that the toucan required the green man/bike symbols to be combined on the same actual lamp on the crossing.</em></p> <p>I've never seen the green man and green bike on separate poles. Do you have an Edinburgh example and I'll go and look. I've seen the separate studs thing on the road to indicate separation for bikes and pedestrians trying to cross, but always controlled by combined lights as far as I know.</p> <p>Wasn't sure what to look for in your link. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8993&page=2#post-232736 Mon, 03 Oct 2016 12:17:27 +0000 kaputnik 232736@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@ih but is it a toucan where the pedestrian and cycle parts are separated i.e. there's a "green man" with one set of crossing studs/markers on the road surface for pedestrians and a "green bike" with a separate set of studs for bikes?</p> <p>I thought (and could quite probably be wrong) that the toucan required the green man/bike symbols to be combined on the same actual lamp on the crossing.</p> <p>Like this (or equivalent on the pole-top lights);</p> <p><a href="http://uk-driving-test.com/images/pelican-crossing-2.gif" rel="nofollow">http://uk-driving-test.com/images/pelican-crossing-2.gif</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8993&page=2#post-232734 Mon, 03 Oct 2016 12:13:21 +0000 ih 232734@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@kaputnik from memory, the Argyle Place to MMW does have a green cycle light so I'm pretty sure it's a pukka toucan. I'll check next time I'm that way. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8993&page=2#post-232732 Mon, 03 Oct 2016 12:07:57 +0000 kaputnik 232732@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>Any crossing without a green cycle symbol is not a toucan and you are supposed to dismount to cross it.</em></p> <p>From what ih says, the crossing at the bottom of Argyle Place to get to MMW is strictly speaking not a Toucan, it's a parallel pelican crossing and cycle crossing, which is why it shows the solid red light at the top (and which is why you'd be causing an offence to cycle across it on red). </p> <p>The Valleyfield Street / NMW crossing is a Toucan, but a design with a solid red light at top for the red phase. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8993&page=2#post-232727 Mon, 03 Oct 2016 11:34:57 +0000 ih 232727@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Talk of red circles etc is confusing. A toucan crossing is defined by having a green cycle symbol during the pedestrian phase. There are many design variants (position of lights, red cycle symbol or not) but a green cycle somewhere is a constant and it is only legal to cycle across when the green cycle symbol is showing. </p> <p>Any crossing without a green cycle symbol is not a toucan and you are supposed to dismount to cross it.</p> <p>As an aside, the newly permitted parallel zebras, where you are allowed to cycle across between elephant's feet markings (parallel to the stripey pedestrian bit) and motorists should stop for you should be seized upon by road designers and used as much as possible. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8993&page=2#post-232698 Mon, 03 Oct 2016 10:08:25 +0000 Roibeard 232698@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I opt not to cross the carriageway stop line when turning into Middle Meadow Walk.</p> <p>I will join the pavement and thus bypass the stop line at the Mainfield Road/West Mains Road junction as there is a dropped kerb and shared use path just prior to the stop line, similar to that at Teviot Place to allow one to turn left into MMW.</p> <p>It's just a pity that the new Meadows to Park route did not include this possibility at the Toucan crossings on Buccleuch Street or Clerk Street. Cyclists on the carriageway wishing to turn right onto the cycle track have it worse, technically being required to dismount at the red light and then head right, or cycle left on the green, U-turn and then wait for the next cycle phase...</p> <p>Robert </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8993&page=2#post-232693 Mon, 03 Oct 2016 09:54:47 +0000 jonty 232693@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Now - what about crossing the road stop line using a toucan to get on to the pavement? I think it's probably illegal (the legal version being something like the ramp up to the opposite kerb you get in Bruntsfield). I got a "that light's for you too you know" once when getting on the NEPN at Craigleith that way from someone crossing, even though if I'd done it 'properly' (with green light or pavement &amp; green man) I'd have passed right by him, as opposed to the 5m+ clearance when I did it the 'illegal' way.) </p> <p>In fact, I wonder if him (or his complaints) are almost single-handedly responsible for the no cycling signs there now? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8993&page=2#post-232679 Mon, 03 Oct 2016 08:45:42 +0000 Roibeard 232679@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>It's only a Toucan if there is a green illuminated cycle during the pedestrian phases, which denotes that cyclists may ride across at this point.</p> <p>Splitting hairs a bit further, if it's simply a solid red circle (top of MMW), then it is illegal for vehicles (inc bikes) to proceed past the stop line.</p> <p>But if there isn't a red circle, cyclists could proceed just as readily as pedestrians on a red man.</p> <p>The pedantic point might be that cycling on a footway without explicit permission to do so may be illegal. For pelican crossings (red/green man only), one has to dismount to cross legally, so if there is only a red man showing it may still be illegal to cycle across even if there isn't a red circle.</p> <p>TLDR; I've no idea if it's legal or not to cycle across a toucan showing a red cycle, but it is illegal to cycle through a solid red circle or to cycle across a pedestrian only crossing, and the red man on its own might make one conclude it was pedestrian only.</p> <p>Robert </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8993&page=2#post-232677 Mon, 03 Oct 2016 08:32:58 +0000 SRD 232677@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>My recollection is that informed people on here (ie morningsider) have said it is 100% legal to cross on a red man if the carriageway is clear (e.g. Leamington walk crossings), but that when there is a proper red circle we have to stop - e.g. crossing from NMW/ARgyle place to MMW. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8993&page=2#post-232674 Sun, 02 Oct 2016 23:30:45 +0000 ih 232674@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>On a toucan crossing people on bikes must wait (HC type terminology) for the green cycle symbol to appear. Pedestrians are allowed to cross on red or green. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8993&page=2#post-232673 Sun, 02 Oct 2016 23:17:04 +0000 chrispaton 232673@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Resurrecting this thread for a different but related question: do you have to wait for the green man/bike at a toucan crossing if the carriageway is clear, or is it legal to proceed even with the red man showing? As a further question, does it matter whether it's a toucan with only a red man (signals opposite you) or a toucan with a red man/bike (signals next to you where the button is)?</p> <p>I've always wondered the answer to this and wondered it some more after I went through a red man at a toucan crossing (because the road was clear!) in front of a police car. The police took no action, but it certainly made me question whether my action was legal or not! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8993&page=2#post-122935 Sat, 24 Aug 2013 10:14:28 +0000 Kenny 122935@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I'm not sure what else they could do, tbh. It's quite a steep hill down to the path using the steps. I was recently on a directed cycle ride where they took people this way:</p> <p><img src="http://www.irreverence.co.uk/img/1377335461.png"></p> <p>In other words, cross the toucan crossing, turn left and use the pavement to get to the start of the Hawthornvale Path. I don't know if that's where you're supposed to go, or even if that bit of pavement on Lindsay Road is shared use, though. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8993&page=2#post-122920 Sat, 24 Aug 2013 00:28:44 +0000 wangi 122920@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>It's poor completion of the facilities isn't it - they put in the toucan obviously to connect up with the NEP... But forgot to do anything about the steps there! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8993&page=2#post-122897 Fri, 23 Aug 2013 19:11:33 +0000 Kenny 122897@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>That's right, @wangi. I've heard of someone who claims to cycle down the gutter bit to the side of the steps, but that's a bit radical for me. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8993&page=2#post-122880 Fri, 23 Aug 2013 15:08:26 +0000 wangi 122880@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Because if you just go straight on after the crossing the path down to the NEP has steps, yeah? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8993&page=2#post-122791 Thu, 22 Aug 2013 22:53:35 +0000 Snowy 122791@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>If you were using a Toucan and wishing to turn left onto the immediate carriagway, or travel over the road to turn right on the other carriageway, you are perfectly correct to do so, unless expressly forbidden to turn left or right by signage.</p> <p>Depending on the layout of the crossing there would probably be an element of giving way to pedestrians crossing the street onto which you are turning, but that's just common sense, and probably the law.</p> <p>Does rule 170 apply to bikes as well as cars? Probably never actually an issue, since bikes are not well known for wantonly accelerating towards pedestrians to 'teach them a lesson'. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8993#post-122789 Thu, 22 Aug 2013 22:33:17 +0000 stiltskin 122789@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>You aren't doing anything wrong....refer him to the Niceway Code </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8993#post-122786 Thu, 22 Aug 2013 22:10:23 +0000 SRD 122786@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I do the same most days at Melville Drive. Always feel like drivers are giving me evil look. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8993#post-122785 Thu, 22 Aug 2013 22:04:16 +0000 Kenny 122785@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I've had a bus driver indicate with his hands that he was not happy with me when I was using a toucan crossing. So I thought I'd describe what I do on a daily basis on my commute home, to see what others think.</p> <p>The toucan crossing I'm discussing here is the one crossing over Lindsay Road, close to Hawthornvale, but it is relevant to all toucan crossings.</p> <p>So what I do is I come along the cul-de-sac road from Ocean Terminal towards ASDA (not sure what the road is called, tbh, and not as far as ASDA, about half way to it from OT), and I go up the steep pavement to get to the toucan crossing. From there, I press the button and wait for the green man / bike. When they appear, I cross over, but before I mount the pavement on the other side, I instead turn right, travel down the hill on the road, and turn left into Hawthornvale as I am aiming to join the NEPN.</p> <p>As I say, a bus driver was clearly not too happy with me doing this for some reason, but I don't see what I'm doing wrong. That toucan crossing appears to be there specifically to join up the safe(r) cycle routes, so I figure I'm actually using the infrastructure correctly? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8993#post-92293 Mon, 26 Nov 2012 18:57:29 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 92293@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Certainly good for Belgian dismount practice... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8993#post-92292 Mon, 26 Nov 2012 18:52:56 +0000 PS 92292@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@WC As a cyclocrosser, I'd have thought you'd just pop the bike on your shoulder and run across the crossing? No propelling in that scenario, presumably? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8993#post-92290 Mon, 26 Nov 2012 18:03:20 +0000 Morningsider 92290@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>cb - toucan crossings are only advisory, you can legally cross the road when they are at red. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8993#post-92285 Mon, 26 Nov 2012 16:42:26 +0000 kaputnik 92285@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>It really irks me when you're trying your damndest to use the thing in the most civil, considerate manner as possible that someone decides to have a go. But then again, there's no pleasing some people. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8993#post-92284 Mon, 26 Nov 2012 16:37:34 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 92284@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"<em>Nah, you can't have the engine running either.</em>"</p> <p>That was kind of my point.... ;)</p> <p>The lady complaining at you will be on the front of the EEN talking about how you almost killed her. Mark my words. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8993#post-92282 Mon, 26 Nov 2012 16:28:16 +0000 kaputnik 92282@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>"... strictly speaking it's entirely legal because I'm stopped...."</em></p> <p>Nah, you can't have the engine running either.</p> <p>The reason I ask is that an old biddy had a moan at me when I performed the above described maneouvre to get from Meadowplace Road to South Gyle Road this lunchtime, by riding off the road onto the crossing (the alternative is to go 50m further up the road, turn right, turn right again, go back down the same 50m and then turn left to get to the same place).</p> <p>"Did you not see the red?" moans she, waving her stick at me. I politely pointed out it was a toucan crossing and cyclists are allowed to use them, but then had a thought that perhaps I had infirnged because I had ridden onto the crossing from the road. I then decided I hadn't actually gone through the red, as the traffic was stopped already as I approached the crossing, I pulled into the oncoming lane and mounted the pavement on the dropped kerb BEFORE I had passed any stop lines. </p> <p>I was also miffed that at the time I was mounting kerb on one side, she was only just stepping off the pavement from the other side, so there had at no time been even a slight chance we may have come to blows. She was just having a moan. Will probably be on the neighbourhood policing team at the next meeting to get signs put up telling us cycling isn't welcome round these parts.</p> <p>Anyway, I probably am guilty of some heinous crime of trying to get where I'm going using what passes for infrastructure round these parts. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8993#post-92281 Mon, 26 Nov 2012 16:18:15 +0000 cb 92281@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><strong>kaputnik</strong> : <em>"What if you are on the road and want to turn onto the cycle path where there is a Toucan crossing. It's easy enough turning off to the left, but if you're making a right turn, you have to go across traffic."</em></p> <p>I quite often head north on Whitehouse Loan and turn right onto the Bruntsfield Links path.</p> <p>There doesn't seem to be a right way to do it.</p> <p>Usually the lights on the road are at green so I just turn right onto the path; but that means that once across the centre line of the road I'm crossing against the red of the Toucan.</p> <p>Otherwise the lights on the road are at red which means crossing through those.</p> <p>As kaputnik says I'm damned if I'm going to pull off to the left then cross properly at the Toucan.</p> <p>In reality I've never once felt that I've got in any one else's way here by simply turning right. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8993#post-92276 Mon, 26 Nov 2012 15:52:02 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 92276@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"<em>So a cyclist coasting down hill is not propelling a vehicle and therefore exempt? </p> <p>(just playing devils advocate now)</em>"</p> <p>You'd simply prosecute gravity... Actually, yes, by a strict interpretation, otherwise a driver could stick a car into neutral and claim he wasn't propelling it. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8993#post-92275 Mon, 26 Nov 2012 15:51:02 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 92275@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"<em>Right. And PC Copper is really going to bother climbing out the cosy panda car just to fine you for crossing a stop line while pushing your bike on foot.....not.</em>"</p> <p>You'd need a VERY bored cop, but the chat on the law was simply in response to, "... strictly speaking entirely legal...[/i]"</p> <p>Put it this way, it would be a bored cop who would get out of his Panda to speak to someone who was on his mobile in his car at red traffic lights, but if that driver was to say, "... strictly speaking it's entirely legal because I'm stopped...." we'd seek to clarify that there was a misapprehension there surely? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8993#post-92272 Mon, 26 Nov 2012 15:40:45 +0000 sallyhinch 92272@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>So a cyclist coasting down hill is not propelling a vehicle and therefore exempt? </p> <p>(just playing devils advocate now) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=8993#post-92271 Mon, 26 Nov 2012 15:33:27 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 92271@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Agh! Morningsider beat me to it!</p> <p>Yep, s.36 of the RTA '88, must comply with traffic signs etc. if 'propelling'. That may be woolly, but if you look at s.129 of the Roads (Scotland) Act 1988 that also has 'propel' a vehicle along a path, but then specifically says this doesn't apply with a bike unless it's being 'ridden', which suggests 'propel' includes pushing a bike.</p> <p>Clear as mud? </p>