http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: "Even if you are otherwise driving safely" en Mon, 01 Jun 2026 02:54:44 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9000#post-92499 Wed, 28 Nov 2012 10:26:54 +0000 ruggtomcat 92499@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>'Possibly referenced by someone else here,'<br /> &lt;-guilty. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9000#post-92440 Tue, 27 Nov 2012 17:14:03 +0000 Roibeard 92440@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@cc - lovely piece of work this. Possibly referenced by someone else here, I'm sure I read recently of this effect, and the corollary that exceptional folk underrate themselves on the curve, as they think others are better than they really are.</p> <p>The fun part is when one shows the exceptional other people's work (e.g. by inviting them to mark other papers), they are surprised, and subsequently assess themselves more accurately (i.e. more highly).</p> <p>Underachievers, even when shown better examples, still don't reassess their incorrect self-assessment...</p> <p>Robert </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9000#post-92421 Tue, 27 Nov 2012 14:20:58 +0000 minus six 92421@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>disappointed that deconstructionist navel gazing didn't unravel this thread into total derailment </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9000#post-92420 Tue, 27 Nov 2012 14:14:32 +0000 crowriver 92420@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@slowcoach, very interesting. From the .ppt:</p> <p>“Shock news – AA President cycles” </p> <p> “Edmund King, the President of the Automobile Association, is an urban cyclist and a weekend warrior” </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9000#post-92419 Tue, 27 Nov 2012 14:08:34 +0000 slowcoach 92419@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>As well as considering themselves (ourselves?) better than the average driver "Between 85% and 90% of drivers claimed to drive slower than the `average driver.'" <a href="http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0001457598000359">NZ survey</a></p> <p>Back to the AA, I found some points in a presentation by the AA's Edmund King on the <a href="http://www.roadsafetygb.org.uk/conference/2012-speakers-presentations.php">Road Safety GB conference </a> interesting </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9000#post-92415 Tue, 27 Nov 2012 14:05:13 +0000 Min 92415@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>A bit like Wonko the Sane in H2G2. Those who feel they would be best at running the universe are actually the least suited to do it.</p> <p>I'd be quite interested to know what the definition of good driving is. I expect most of the 80% feel that it means being able to drive as fast as possible without crashing. Too often. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9000#post-92413 Tue, 27 Nov 2012 13:55:41 +0000 cc 92413@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The <a href="http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Dunning-Kruger_effect">Dunning-Kruger Effect</a>. The skills needed to make you (e.g.) a good driver are the same skills needed to assess good driving, so if you're a terrible driver you don't recognise the fact. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9000#post-92410 Tue, 27 Nov 2012 13:53:25 +0000 crowriver 92410@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>That's human nature: fragile egos over emphasising competence to save face.</p> <p>Frankly those 80% should be stripped of their licenses and forced to re-test. Only those with sufficient humility should be put in charge of hurtling metal death carriages. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9000#post-92408 Tue, 27 Nov 2012 13:39:54 +0000 Uberuce 92408@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Ill have to track it down and exclude the chance it was a joke, but I heard that something like 80% of people consider themselves an above average driver, and that figure does dip but remains well above 50% even when the sample in question is drivers who are in A&amp;E being treated for injuries sustained in collisions which were later found to be their fault. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9000#post-92405 Tue, 27 Nov 2012 13:12:35 +0000 PS 92405@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I think there's a bit of psychology at play here - average driver thinks he/she is a good, safe driver, even on those rare occasions when they just have to check that text that came in. By the AA telling them that they could get a fine even when otherwise driving safely (ie, even when they are not involved in an "incident") they are more likely to take notice of this warning than if the AA simply states using your mobile means you are not driving safely. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9000#post-92392 Tue, 27 Nov 2012 12:23:04 +0000 splitshift 92392@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>you lot are so old school, i never even carry my phone now in the car, or lorry , i have a laptop on the dash, watching a movie while e mailing !<br /> (tweet ! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9000#post-92390 Tue, 27 Nov 2012 12:15:36 +0000 Arellcat 92390@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>"Pragmatists and deconstructionists agree that everything is a social construct and that there is no point in trying to distinguish between the natural and the merely cultural. They agree that the question is which social constructs to discard and which to keep, and that there is no point in appealing to the way things really are in the course of struggles over who gets to construct what. Both philosophical schools can agree that if there are no values and beliefs not bound up with power, then the term ideology threatens to expand to the vanishing point. But both find this a reason to be dubious about the utility of the notion of ideology, at least if it is supposed to mean more than a set of bad ideas."</em></p> <p><a href="http://www.cyberartsweb.org/cpace/cspace/schwartz/philosophies.html">So that's cleared that up, then</a>. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9000#post-92380 Tue, 27 Nov 2012 11:55:11 +0000 Min 92380@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I'm usually too drunk to use my mobile while driving anyway. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9000#post-92372 Tue, 27 Nov 2012 11:44:27 +0000 minus six 92372@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>use some of the deconstructionist tools of modern feminism to have a look at driving and car culture</em></p> <p>the dominator culture may be yang in essence</p> <p>but that doesn't preclude feminist participation </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9000#post-92369 Tue, 27 Nov 2012 11:42:18 +0000 steveo 92369@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>'Obviously I wouldn't consider using a mobile if I was driving dangerously, but I might consider it if I was driving safely.'</em></p> <p>I always slow to the national speed limit before sending text messages to do other wise would be irresponsible, you know, for safety's sake. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9000#post-92366 Tue, 27 Nov 2012 11:36:17 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 92366@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought that.... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9000#post-92361 Tue, 27 Nov 2012 11:28:13 +0000 fimm 92361@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>What on earth are "the deconstructionist tools of modern feminism"? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9000#post-92298 Mon, 26 Nov 2012 19:18:33 +0000 ruggtomcat 92298@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>It might be instructive to use some of the deconstructionist tools of modern feminism to have a look at driving and car culture. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9000#post-92280 Mon, 26 Nov 2012 16:08:25 +0000 cb 92280@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>'Obviously I wouldn't consider using a mobile if I was driving dangerously, but I might consider it if I was driving safely.'</p> <p>That's what you could infer. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9000#post-92278 Mon, 26 Nov 2012 16:00:15 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 92278@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Just came across this on the AA website about using a mobile phone while driving:</p> <p>"<em>If you break this law, even if you are otherwise driving safely, you could face a fine of £60 and three penalty points on your licence</em>"</p> <p>That 'even if you are otherwise driving safely' creeps in everywhere doesn't it? It's like the speeder who is an 'otherwise law abiding motorist'. Is it not the case that if someone is on their mobile they simply are <em>not</em> driving safely? There's no 'otherwise' about it... Seems to hint at 'it's not really that serious, honest' type of mindset to me. </p>