http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: Lorry drivers protest over speed restrictions en Mon, 01 Jun 2026 02:54:26 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9054&page=2#post-93511 Wed, 05 Dec 2012 13:34:24 +0000 splitshift 93511@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>agree, yep, only winner is the boss, ive never pulled a fuse( or thrown a magnet ! modern equiv ! )not worth it. Poss should be re named as small transport companies protest for more profit !<br /> dipping the clutch down hill............ nah , had a prop shaft explode at 75 in a race car transporter, very interesting ! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9054&page=2#post-93500 Wed, 05 Dec 2012 12:57:02 +0000 Smudge 93500@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>A friend who I wont name (think he's a transport manager now!) was on an agency run down south with a nice big all electronic Scania, offgoing driver tells him how to disable the limiter (use gearlever like a playstation joystick, three left two forwards one back etc etc) and that because of the electronics the tacho will just show a steady 56... (just before the transition to all electronic tacho's, shows my age!)<br /> "Bonus" thinks boy wonder, does so and gets a flying run in, back in good time, all happy until he pulls out the tacho to see it off the speed scale for most of the run. Queue white faced agency driver quickly thinking up excuses for a torn up tacho "oh it didn't record for some reason so I had to do a manual..."!</p> <p>I can truthfully say I've never "pulled the fuse", imo the only person who wins is the boss, never the poor driver :-/ We all know about dodgy practices like the ones you mentioned, dipping the clutch on downhills etc though.<br /> Funny you should mention the A9 in that context, last time I was in Inverness in a heavy a colleague in another one was doing 50+ when he spotted the mobile camera... not a happy time for him wondering if he'd been clocked and therefore would be unemployed soon (his company have a very strict points policy). Just not worth it. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9054#post-93492 Wed, 05 Dec 2012 12:47:26 +0000 splitshift 93492@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@smudge, yes agree the licence saver is good, esp on downhill over run ! Noise scares the bejeseus out of pedestrians though ! Thing with modern trucks, is that at 40 mph on the A9 youve nothing to do, cept fall asleep ! perhaps we should have violently vibrating seats that we can set a timer on :O he he ! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9054#post-93491 Wed, 05 Dec 2012 12:43:31 +0000 splitshift 93491@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@smudge, shouldnt happen cause all trucks are fitted legally with a limiter...........................<br /> hmm, low profile tyres while calibrating limitter will normally give up to 62 mph ! oh and just google, removing speed limiters, its no surprise that many results will originate in ireland or the baltic states.<br /> Now this one is allegedlly, in a scania, old series 3 R type, if while in motion, on the limit 56, if you were to switch off the ign and straight back on the limiter was dissabled for a short, couple of minutes length of time, allowed for overtaking etc, ALLEGEDLY ! apparently was used by technicians while vehicle was on rolling roads etc to callibrate stuff and set limits.<br /> Trucks could go much faster, safely but is the road infrastructure in place to accomodate it ? signage etc ? Surely the car drivers, and coaches, your right, they make really stupid overtakes as well, just need to learn to drive better ?<br /> Living in hope !<br /> scott </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9054#post-93489 Wed, 05 Dec 2012 12:38:41 +0000 Smudge 93489@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>^what he said!^</p> <p>Incidentally some of the new MAN trucks I very occasionally drive don't just have a limiter, and cruise control, they also have a "licence saver" speed limiter which I can set on the fly, lets the truck drive normally up to the speed I set which it will not exceed, very handy round town, motorway roadworks etc. Wish our car had one! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9054#post-93486 Wed, 05 Dec 2012 12:15:30 +0000 splitshift 93486@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>ok, smudge has dealt with most issues here already,I know tha most modern lorries are capable of stopping very quickly, and yes out accelerating a car while in an artic can cause some amusement,speed limits are in place, for good, if old reasons. My company does not want to loose its operators licence by asking drivers to break the law , by speeding , so we generally travel at just on , or very slightly over the 40 limit. We can run fixed cameras at 43/44 and not trip them.BUT, if you encounter a mobile van camera , there is no such margin .Imagine the senario,you come barreling over the drumochter summit, into the single lane section, (40 mph in an artic ) your doing 50,there is a an accident ahead, you spot it at the last minute, stand on the anchors and still run over the top of mrs whatsit in her fiesta.Would a ten mph lower speed have saved all ?I dont know, but i sure dont want to spend the rest of my life wondering ! I always just pull into the many laybys on the A9,some of which are almost run through , additional lanes .ABS brakes, i am convinced its a major......... you can steer while standing on the brakes but they actually take longer to stop.Most lorries also have a thing known generally as active suspension programmes which take over the control of brakes distribution while the vehicle is steering, all linked to suspension loading , which can also lenghthen stopping distances.The whole, we want to make the A9 a safer place for car drivers is frankly rubbish , the independant truckers are cutting one anothers throats for rates, if they can travel the A9, from central to inverness, legally , on the limit, then they can cover more distance, with less cost.Its all about profit. I doubt that any drivers will sit on the A9 at 40 as a protest ! Ive seen only one protest where lots of small and independant firms were protesting at the cost of fuel, they held up the M9 etc for a few hours, they travelled in convoy to somewhere for a mass meeting ! all very socialist worker and lets give the small business people a chance !But they all had loads on,they were still making money, they wernt quite in thesamer league as the Jarrow marchers !I know many owner drivers and its not something I fancy, £100 000 for a unit and trailer, £1000 to fill up on fuell, £350 a tyre,up to 20 of them ,£1200 road tax, insurance, wages, maintenance costs, (recent £5000 for a clutch in France !) bonds for overseas, living like a gypsy in a metal box, never seeing your family,eating rubbish constantly,speed cameras on every street and now people want to make them go faster ! Give me the supermarket job any day, very little hassle, just dont bend it, dont break it and dont bring the company into disrepute , oh and home every night, good reliable wages and conditions. Yep, give me 40mph and plenty of laybys and youll get to inverness , no problem. Oh and the single carraigway sections are actually brocken by duall carraigeway sections where the cars can pass at speeds that the artics cant actually acheive !<br /> Yes ive seen many incredible overtakes by the ever important car drivers out there, but not just the A9, they are evreywhere !<br /> If my ankle ever gets better , i might even get back to driving soon !<br /> Take care yall !<br /> Scott </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9054#post-93481 Wed, 05 Dec 2012 11:53:40 +0000 Smudge 93481@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@Slowcoach, ref the pilot study, the MoD for instance has these fitted across their civilian vehicle fleet, regardless of driver age! Speeding or erratic driving gets automatically flagged up to fleet managers and then it comes back down the chain to the drivers. </p> <p>Ok for commercial fleets and rapidly being adopted by many due to the financial benefits, doesn't do anything about private drivers and the cowboys unfortunately.</p> <p>I have been told that all L&amp;B Police cars have dataloggers fitted which will, in the event of a crash, save the data for a period up to the impact, eg, speed, throttle use, lights on/off etc etc.</p> <p>All sorts of technology is there, it just needs an incentive for it to be applied. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9054#post-93478 Wed, 05 Dec 2012 11:43:24 +0000 mgj 93478@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I do wish they would update that VED exemption, for purely selfish reasons, as my DS is 6 months too young to qualify. It does have a speedometer with braking distances in feet on it though (good tyres, in the dry). 250 feet for 60 mph IIRC </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9054#post-93475 Wed, 05 Dec 2012 11:35:24 +0000 slowcoach 93475@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>See <a href="http://www.scotland.gov.uk/News/Releases/2009/06/15121346">Scotland's Road Safety Framework </a> from 2009 - "The framework proposes that high tech devices which restrict the speed of a vehicle using an onboard computer to ensure that the limit cannot be exceeded be piloted to test their effectiveness in Scotland."</p> <p>and the <a href="http://www.rospa.com/news/releases/detail/default.aspx?id=1115">pilot study</a> now underway for young drivers at work. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9054#post-93467 Wed, 05 Dec 2012 10:56:50 +0000 Smudge 93467@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@WC yup, the same <strike>reasons</strike> excuses were used for a long time about 70mph limiters, now they are seen fitted to more and more fleet vehicles.<br /> If politicians were remotely serious about reducing the carnage on our roads the legislation would be getting forced through now to make them mandatory.</p> <p>Disparity would be no great problem, it was there for a while (and still is to an extent) when they froze the rolling VED exemption on older cars. It would soon become and insignificant number of unrestricted vehicles, and in a large number of restricted vehicles they would either be forced to follow suit and moderate speed or they would stick out like a sore thumb. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9054#post-93463 Wed, 05 Dec 2012 10:37:42 +0000 cc 93463@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>It could easily be strongly encouraged by means of insurance premiums. Imagine if premiums doubled or tripled for non-controlled cars. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9054#post-93457 Wed, 05 Dec 2012 10:28:42 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 93457@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"<em>... as a precursor to the introduction of limiters linked to gps which will restrict the vehicle to the local speed limit...</em>"</p> <p>This idea was actually featured on Top Gear about 15 years ago. The technology has existed for aaaaaaaages, but definitely no will to implement something like that (and difficult to do for one country on its own unless government approved identikit cars were produced). I remember at the time the safety argument was along the lines of "For overtaking safely sometimes you have to go faster so you're exposed for a shorter length of time". Even at that time, when I wasn't as much of a cyclist, I thought to myself "If you need to break the speed limit to get past safely then you shouldn't be overtaking...."</p> <p>For a while as well you'd end up with a disparity between new cars fitted with it, and old cars (which I doubt would be compelled to retrofit). You'd probably see the secondhand market boom as people wanted to buy cars that can go faster than the mandated limit. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9054#post-93445 Wed, 05 Dec 2012 09:51:53 +0000 Smudge 93445@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@Min, shouldn't happen as they are legally forced to have the 56 limiters and the govt I doubt would see it as a vote grabber to raise it.</p> <p>I look forward with little hope to the mandatory fitment of 70mph limiters* to all new cars. There is no excuse not to outside the daily wail or top gear willy waving!</p> <p>*as a precursor to the introduction of limiters linked to gps which will restrict the vehicle to the local speed limit... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9054#post-93444 Wed, 05 Dec 2012 09:41:15 +0000 Min 93444@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>if I knew the answer to that I'd be a transport planner or a politician!</em></p> <p>Haha, if you knew the answers to transport questions, you really wouldn't be! ;-)</p> <p><em>For all the difference 6mph would make I would be tempted to just let them run at 56... but I have no idea whether that would affect accident/injury rates or not :-s My suspicion is that it will make no practical difference due to the proportion who are doing that anyway.</em></p> <p>Yes, it would be hard to tell without actually trying it. Of course, what might happen is that trucks that are now travelling at 56mph would have their limiters put up and travel at 66mph instead. But I think perhaps a trial period might tell. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9054#post-93317 Tue, 04 Dec 2012 13:02:19 +0000 Smudge 93317@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>So is 50 a sensible speed limit do you think?</em><br /> Hmmm, that's a tough one, if I knew the answer to that I'd be a transport planner or a politician!</p> <p>In my experience, (caveat, sample of 1), most heavies are running on open A roads between about 50 and 56 (on the limiter). This is of course amongst light traffic that is trying to do 55-60mph legally.<br /> For all the difference 6mph would make I would be tempted to just let them run at 56... but I have no idea whether that would affect accident/injury rates or not :-s My suspicion is that it will make no practical difference due to the proportion who are doing that anyway.</p> <p>Were you to advocate a blanket 50mph limit on A roads for all vehicles, that creates a lot of other factors, in that case, I would say 50mph max for all vehicles would make perfect sense, certainly 40 for trucks and 50 for the rest would be a nonsense.</p> <p>To spread the thread a little further for a moment, I remember watching a programme where a Swedish (iirc, somewhere cold with a good safety record anyway!!) safety expert was asked to look at UK single carriageway A roads, he was horrified that the two lanes weren't barrier segregated, (armco or fences like the central reservation on a motorway) when asked whether that would cause frustration by preventing people from overtaking his attitude was basically "why would they be frustrated?" pointing out that it completely removes head-on crashes...</p> <p>It would be a much cheaper and more certain way of making the A9 safer for instance, don't bother spending billions dualling it, just put a fence down the middle and let everything do 50mph. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9054#post-93309 Tue, 04 Dec 2012 11:45:12 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 93309@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>This is what I like about CCE - you tend to get someone who really knows what they're talking about no matter what the topic. And, if posited sensibly and with that knowledge and without trying to prove a point, you genuinely <em>can</em> change people's opinions, or get them questioning wqhat they initially believed.</p> <p>Though I still don't like some of the reporting on this particular action being taken. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9054#post-93308 Tue, 04 Dec 2012 11:43:12 +0000 Min 93308@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>That rather surprises me but I guess things are different at the actual coal face!</p> <p>So is 50 a sensible speed limit do you think? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9054#post-93298 Tue, 04 Dec 2012 10:41:30 +0000 Smudge 93298@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>In a straight line, you can pretty much stand on the anchors, when turning, esp heavily loaded is where the potential jacknife becomes a really scary possibility, esp in icy/slippy conditions.<br /> Speed isn't especially a factor (in my experience) in the risk of jacknife, it's just something you're aware of whenever you need to brake in a turn.<br /> Yes there is greater mass, but the weight is relatively low and is also pushing the tyres into the ground, increasing their grip. Obv condition dependent but on a dry day the old ERF EC10 I used to drive would stop like it had hit a wall (and when empty would easily out-accelerate children in XR2i's etc!)</p> <p>I'll be glad to be proven wrong, and it's a nice idea that a greater speed differential would allow safer overtakes, but as I say my experience of doing 40 on roads like the A1 and A9 is that the overtakes become really frighteningly dangerous as bad drivers get frustrated and take bigger and bigger risks :-(</p> <p>Much like cars passing bicycles... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9054#post-93291 Tue, 04 Dec 2012 10:18:52 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 93291@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>That's interesting Smudge (always assumed the greater mass wouldn't have been overcome by better brakes - obviously knew they <em>had</em> better brakes, but didn't realise they were that good). Is there a greater jackknife possibility at higher speeds and under heavy braking?</p> <p>On the news last night the reporter finished the piece with: "And many lorry drivers say that they drive faster than the speed limit in order to help with the flow of traffic." No challenge to that comment at all. Hands up who thinks that's why people break the limit.... No.... No-one?</p> <p>As Crowriver says, long may the protest continue! And I think Mr Bhachgen is right as well about the relative safety of passing at different speeds. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9054#post-93289 Tue, 04 Dec 2012 10:08:37 +0000 Smudge 93289@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Ref stupid overtakes, my experience is that at 50+ the odd person makes a stupid overtake, most will wait for a sensible gap, at 40mph the muppets get frustrated (and under pressure from those behind them) and the horrifying overtakes come thick and fast :-( </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9054#post-93288 Tue, 04 Dec 2012 10:05:02 +0000 Smudge 93288@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>To be fair, and speaking from the biased position of a sometime LGV driver, the speed limits for heavies are archaic.<br /> For those unfamiliar, it's 30 in a built up area, 40 on single carriageways, 50 on dual carriageways and 60 on motorways (though all modern trucks have a 56mph limiter fitted). (Strangely a coach full of people is allowed to travel at 30, 50, 60 and 70?!?(And though most seem unaware these limits also apply to transit vans and similar..)</p> <p>These limits were set way back in the days of drum brakes and underpowered trucks, on single carriageways and on single and dual carriageways they are, to be honest, routinely ignored by the majority the majority and a blind eye is turned by all the police I've encountered. After all, a modern wagon with up to date abs, good suspension, brakes built for 100ton not 40 will more than likely outstop the majority of cars (keep this in mind when following a truck!)<br /> Harmonising limits would make sense, I'd personally like to see the coach limits brought in line. A protest as described in the thread above would just highlight an obsolete law to many drivers who are currently completely unaware why the odd truck is "only" doing 40mph on an open 60mph road. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9054#post-93281 Tue, 04 Dec 2012 09:12:15 +0000 Bhachgen 93281@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>If the trucks stick to 40mph it could actually reduce "dangerous" overtaking moves as there will be stretches where it would be impossible to safely overtake a vehicle travelling at 50mph+ but where there will be enough space to overtake a vehicle travelling at 40mph.</p> <p>If all the truckers on the A9 actually follow through with their planned protest they may actually find themselves getting unexpected positive feedback on it from drivers of faster vehicles for this very reason. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9054#post-93242 Mon, 03 Dec 2012 19:44:57 +0000 chdot 93242@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Scottish Labour transport man says (BBC TV news) it's "win win" to increase limits. </p> <p>Now policeman on (separate item) saying drivers need to slow down in current weather conditions... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9054#post-93235 Mon, 03 Dec 2012 18:54:57 +0000 crowriver 93235@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>So let me get this right: their 'protest' involves sticking rigidly to the existing speed limit?</p> <p>Great, just carry on with the protest indefinitely guys! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9054#post-93226 Mon, 03 Dec 2012 18:05:23 +0000 Klaxon 93226@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><blockquote>&gt; If you do 60 up the A9 1) you get a big queue behind you and 2) you get the odd dodgy overtake...</blockquote></p> <p>I'm happy to always sit at 60 on the A9. Less variance in journey time because you catch up less lorries to start with. It's if you go quicker and start catching others doing 60 that you suddenly become the one doing the dodgy overtakes. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9054#post-93214 Mon, 03 Dec 2012 16:34:20 +0000 fimm 93214@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>If you do 60 up the A9 1) you get a big queue behind you and 2) you get the odd dodgy overtake... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9054#post-93213 Mon, 03 Dec 2012 16:31:57 +0000 ARobComp 93213@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I think the idea that less people would overtake if the lorries were going at 45/50mph is a load of bull. All that will happen is that people will overtake going 60-70 rather than the 50-60 they currently overtake at. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9054#post-93212 Mon, 03 Dec 2012 16:31:27 +0000 Min 93212@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I really can't see that a driver who would rather kill someone than wait patiently behind a lorry at 40mph is going to wait patiently behind a lorry at 50mph? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9054#post-93211 Mon, 03 Dec 2012 16:29:07 +0000 kaputnik 93211@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Anyone who thinks that raising speed limits is anything but a catastrophe waiting to happen should be forced to sit through an hour of those "Driving in Russia" compilations on youtube (I imagine that there are so many in-car "helmetcams" in Russia due to the appalling driving standards and apparently complete disregard for the law and other road users) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9054#post-93206 Mon, 03 Dec 2012 16:19:40 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 93206@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Where's Splitshift? Be good to have a lorry driver's view (and I'll bet there are some good tales of car drivers overtaking really really badly).</p> <p>I have to admit, I wasn't actually aware that the speed limit for trucks on single carriageways was 40mph! </p>