http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: "A MOTORWAY junction being revamped as part of the new Forth crossing to open" en Sat, 04 Jul 2026 10:49:02 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9272&page=2#post-99200 Wed, 06 Feb 2013 08:39:03 +0000 chdot 99200@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"<br /> THE Scottish Government has failed to deliver a £119 million investment for building schools, £65m for colleges, £27m for new roads and £39m for the Borders rail project this year, an official document has revealed.</p> <p>"</p> <p><a href="http://www.scotsman.com/the-scotsman/politics/alex-salmond-faces-heat-over-project-funding-shortfall-1-2776243" rel="nofollow">http://www.scotsman.com/the-scotsman/politics/alex-salmond-faces-heat-over-project-funding-shortfall-1-2776243</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9272&page=2#post-99162 Tue, 05 Feb 2013 15:51:25 +0000 Calum 99162@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>To be fair, the Dunragit Bypass will have that magnificent facility, the shared use path, adjacent to it. Undoubtedly it will be of generous width with priority over side roads, as is the case with all of Scotland's iconic world-class cycling infrastructure. And yet, we must remember that The Motorist is the Engine of Economic Growth and must be offered every convenience at any cost, which is why these road improvement schemes are so vital to the continued existence of Scotland and indeed the human race. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9272&page=2#post-99160 Tue, 05 Feb 2013 15:23:48 +0000 sallyhinch 99160@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Hmm, well they could improve roads by putting cycle tracks alongside them no? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9272&page=2#post-99153 Tue, 05 Feb 2013 14:44:56 +0000 chdot 99153@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"</p> <p>Keith Brown MSP (@KeithBrownMSP)<br /> 05/02/2013 11:55<br /> £36.7m of Scottish Government investment in lifeline routes in south-west Scotland further underlines our commitment to improving roads.</p> <p>"</p> <p>Sally will be pleased. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9272&page=2#post-99081 Mon, 04 Feb 2013 17:39:49 +0000 kaputnik 99081@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Resource/0041/00413696.pdf">January 2013 Scottish Government Infrastructre Investment Pipeline is published</a></p> <p>Looking only at transport;</p> <p>A9 (Perth - Inverness) doubling - £1.5-3bn<br /> A96 (Inverness to Aberdeen) doubling - £3bn<br /> Dalry &amp; Maybole bypasses - £100-150m<br /> A82 (Loch Lomong to Glencoe) "Improvements" - £200-250m<br /> = Roads projects total £4.8 - £6.4 bn (low to high estimate)</p> <p>"Low Carbon Transport" (electric hover cars plus a few warm but woolly words around supporting "active travel") = £200m</p> <p>Rail projects total £750m - £1.7bn (low to high estimate)</p> <p>So at best we're spending c. 4 x as much on road projects as rail and at worst c. 6.5 x more. Plus there's a tray of pennies by the cash register for investment in cycling.</p> <p>Worth noting that we've not quite worked out how we're expecting to pay the above tab. Keith Broon hoping for 0% interest free credit and then an attractive repayment plan at 16.9% APR. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9272&page=2#post-98947 Mon, 04 Feb 2013 09:38:03 +0000 chdot 98947@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="http://www.scotsman.com/the-scotsman/transport/forth-bridge-faces-4-4m-compensation-black-hole-1-2773909" rel="nofollow">http://www.scotsman.com/the-scotsman/transport/forth-bridge-faces-4-4m-compensation-black-hole-1-2773909</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9272&page=2#post-98801 Fri, 01 Feb 2013 19:16:48 +0000 Arellcat 98801@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>What are the 3,000 jobs it secures that are dependent on having more driving between Fife and Edinburgh?</em></p> <p>I have to admit that it's extremely tempting to ask that question by way of FOI.</p> <p>And from the later article:</p> <p><em>a "state-of-the-art Intelligent Transport System (ITS) which will help smooth traffic flow and reduce traffic queuing at peak times…"</em></p> <p>Edinburgh has one of those already. It uses a city-wide network of specially designed vehicles called buses. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9272&page=2#post-98800 Fri, 01 Feb 2013 18:59:19 +0000 kaputnik 98800@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>“The Forth Replacement Crossing project is essential to protect and promote Scotland’s sustainable economic growth. It will secure over 3,000 jobs and economic revenue of £1.3 billion that would otherwise have been lost through re-cabling of the Forth Road Bridge. </em></p> <p>Sooner or later our political masters might realise that there's very little "sustainable" for a small country like Scotland lavishing such astronomical sums of money on a few miles of tarmac and concrete. In the mean time we can all stick our fingers in our ears and go "lalalalalalala".</p> <p>Cynics like myself may find it a smidgen of a convenient co-incidence that the magic bridge is going to "secure... economic revenue of £1.3bn", seems rather close to the new bridge's price tag. "It'll pay for itself in a year, honest". And what are the 3,000 jobs it secures that are dependent on having more driving between Fife and Edinburgh?</p> <p><em>It will also deliver a welcome boost to the Scottish construction industry</em></p> <p>I thought we had already been informed that the bridge isn't built out of Scottish (or even British) steel or concrete and a lot of the big contracts for it have gone abroad?</p> <p>Still, if you can't believe a politician, who can you believe? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9272#post-98799 Fri, 01 Feb 2013 18:55:47 +0000 kaputnik 98799@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>Was space beside the racks before the t••••! </em></p> <p>The big limiting factor is signalling capacity across the bridge, rather than track capacity. Of course it's not technologically insurmountable to increase the capacity with something like dynamic signalling and to provide longer, higher-capacity trains (perhaps requiring a spot of Fife circle platform lengthening), it does however seem to lack any sort of ambition on behalf of authorities. The current "solution" of some clapped out 1960s rolling stock pulled by some surplus freight locos adding a couple of extra peak time services is embarrassing at best. The problem has existed for years (it was the same one summer I worked in Dunfermline, which must have been about 2001) and it will exist in another 10 years most likely because nobody bothered to do anything about it and all the money was spent on Keith and Eck's freedombridge.</p> <p>Looking at the seabed profile of the Firth, you can appreciate why it would be quite some undertaking - as it narrows, it deepens, reaching around 80 metres just upstream of the (rail) bridge. So you either build a much longer tunnel further upstream with significant deviations for road traffic (who we all know hate to deviate anywhere) or you build a shorter tunnel at the narrow point, but it ends up being longer as it needs long approaches to account for how deep it has to run. Anyway, the same Fifers who currently bolt for home whenever a breeze gets up would probably end up doing same whenever there's a spot of rain, fearing it might flood :) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9272#post-98798 Fri, 01 Feb 2013 18:31:31 +0000 crowriver 98798@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>The real worry is that we will have the situation where its ability to stay open in windy weather will make the bus service to Fife unattractive.</em></p> <p>The Law of Unintended Consequences. </p> <p>Or, put another way, entirely foreseeable and even deliberate policy when (allegedly to save money) you ban public transport and active travel from the new bridge. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9272#post-98796 Fri, 01 Feb 2013 17:20:26 +0000 LaidBack 98796@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I can't complain that they are making new bridge as 'resilient' as possible. </p> <p>The real worry is that we will have the situation where its ability to stay open in windy weather will make the bus service to Fife unattractive. From my understanding public transport will only use the old bridge, often closed to high sided vehicles;-)</p> <p>Of course they may allow buses to go over new bridge when it's windy and ban cars to democratise the crossing(!)</p> <p>Maybe they should increase the Western rail capacity out to Fife again. Was space beside the racks before the t••••! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9272#post-98784 Fri, 01 Feb 2013 14:32:45 +0000 Morningsider 98784@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I love the £20m under budget bit. The contract awarded in June 2011 was costed at £25.6m:</p> <p><a href="http://www.transportscotland.gov.uk/news/More-savings-more-jobs-announced-on-Forth-Replacement-Crossing" rel="nofollow">http://www.transportscotland.gov.uk/news/More-savings-more-jobs-announced-on-Forth-Replacement-Crossing</a></p> <p>And the cost came in at £25.6m. Maths never my strong point, but...</p> <p>Full wind shielding on the new bridge - apperently this is very good. The new Severn bridge has never been closed due to high winds apparently and has similar shielding. Full wind shielding can't be fitted to the current bridge - wind loading could be too much for the structure to take.</p> <p>I agree with o_O about the teeny fences on the current bridge - when I cycle across I always try and stay dead centre of the cycle track as I always get the feeling I'm liable to be blown over the fence. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9272#post-98782 Fri, 01 Feb 2013 14:22:51 +0000 minus six 98782@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>Are they going to stop it being windy on the new bridge?</em></p> <p>There was talk of wind shielding around the main towers of FRB, but its not going to happen</p> <p>My bugbear is that the fencing on both sides of each ped walkway is woefully short, presumably for aesthetic reasons only</p> <p>A nordic bridge would have much higher fencing to protect peds and cyclists</p> <p>The existing bridge remains a vanity project, after all these years </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9272#post-98774 Fri, 01 Feb 2013 13:12:30 +0000 JohnS 98774@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>It was looked and quickly discounted. The entrance/exits would be miles away from either bank of the actual river. To put in context the north exit would have to be around Dunfermline. A tunnel would also have a higher environmental inmpact due to the land take for the tunnel entrances, despite its non visual impact. A full engineering, environmental appriasal and socio economic impact assessment was caried out on the tunnel option. A nice to have but not really very practicle. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9272#post-98771 Fri, 01 Feb 2013 12:54:04 +0000 DaveC 98771@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Our local MSP suggested a tunnel. I'm not sure what the geology is like to excavating a tunnel. In any case modern sub aqua tunnels are made from precast concertite and just laid in a trench excavated out of the seabed. I would have though constructing one would have been easy? They could hav allowed cyclists to use the escape/service tunnels. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9272#post-98770 Fri, 01 Feb 2013 12:48:08 +0000 steveo 98770@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>I never did understand why a cross-Forth tunnel wouldn't work.</em></p> <p>I'm not sure either, they're cheaper to build these days too. Instead of tunnelling they sink concrete tubes and seal them up then pump out the water. There might have been ecological or other issues but my personal opinion, a tunnel hidden from view isn't quite the vanity project that another bridge. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9272#post-98769 Fri, 01 Feb 2013 12:43:37 +0000 Min 98769@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>Are they going to stop it being windy on the new bridge? </em></p> <p>Yes I think so. I can't remember the details but there will be baffles on some kind I think. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9272#post-98766 Fri, 01 Feb 2013 12:37:57 +0000 cc 98766@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I never did understand why a cross-Forth tunnel wouldn't work. Some problem to do with exhaust fumes. Do they have that problem in those epic Norwegian or Alpine or Danish tunnels? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9272#post-98765 Fri, 01 Feb 2013 12:32:11 +0000 fimm 98765@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>&lt;extreme pedantry alert&gt;<br /> <em>... the old bridge, which is closed in high winds ...</em></p> <p>Are they going to stop it being windy on the new bridge? I mean, do you think that the new bridge will never be closed to high-sided vehicles, buses (theoretical cyclists and pedestrians), etc due to wind?<br /> &lt;/end of extreme pedantry&gt; </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9272#post-98763 Fri, 01 Feb 2013 12:21:25 +0000 crowriver 98763@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>KB: "“The entire Forth Replacement Crossing scheme comprises nearly 14 miles of new or upgraded road. <em>It was always more than just a bridge project</em> and I’m delighted we have completed the road upgrades to the north and south of the Forth ahead of schedule so people can start to benefit from this vital project as early as possible."</p> <p><em>It was always more than just a bridge project</em>. Aye, it's a big whopping virility symbol, a grandstanding opportunity, a carbuncle, a white elephant, an extravagant waste of money, etc. ad infinitum. </p> <p>Oh did I mention that the project excludes active travel? Oh we'll get to use the old bridge, which is closed in high winds and allegedly is going to fall down soon. What do you mean it's not going to fall down? Well then why are you building a new one?</p> <p>I could go on, but I won't. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9272#post-98762 Fri, 01 Feb 2013 12:10:04 +0000 crowriver 98762@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Ah, but that would be the cycling budget. We can't have motorised transport cash, dontcha know? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9272#post-98761 Fri, 01 Feb 2013 12:00:38 +0000 Arellcat 98761@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Or in full:<br /> <a href="http://www.transportscotland.gov.uk/news/M9-opens-early-and-under-budget" rel="nofollow">http://www.transportscotland.gov.uk/news/M9-opens-early-and-under-budget</a></p> <p>Perhaps they could use that £20 million underspend to windproof the current bridge so that cyclists can use it when it's blowing a gale. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9272#post-98757 Fri, 01 Feb 2013 11:43:54 +0000 chdot 98757@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"<br /> Transport Scotland (@transcotland)<br /> 01/02/2013 10:41<br /> M9 Junction opens early and under budget </p> <p><a href="http://www.shar.es/C9aUa" rel="nofollow">http://www.shar.es/C9aUa</a></p> <p>" </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9272#post-98743 Fri, 01 Feb 2013 10:14:09 +0000 cb 98743@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>There is good news for bus users as there is now a part time bus lane leading south onto the junction with the A8. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9272#post-98734 Fri, 01 Feb 2013 09:31:10 +0000 chdot 98734@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"<br /> Radio Forth News (@RadioForthNews)<br /> 01/02/2013 06:48<br /> The new M9 junction 1a is opening today - it's part of the new Forth crossing project and <em>will improve traffic</em> for West Lothian &amp; Edinburgh</p> <p>"</p> <p>(<em>My italics</em> - word "flow" seems to be missing...) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9272#post-98537 Wed, 30 Jan 2013 21:17:06 +0000 kaputnik 98537@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I thought George Osbourne said that HS2 was the engine of economic growth? Perhaps any impractically expensive way of moving people around the place is an engine of economic growth? Ahem, tram. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9272#post-98530 Wed, 30 Jan 2013 21:09:48 +0000 Calum 98530@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>But The Motorist is The Engine Of Economic Growth and must be offered every convenience at any cost, don't you know? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9272#post-98507 Wed, 30 Jan 2013 16:10:27 +0000 chdot 98507@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"Transport Minister Keith Brown will visit the site at Kirkliston to inspect progress and officially open the new junction."</p> <p>There was a time when such an event would have been 'protested' at, but I don't think Mr. Brown would take much notice! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9272#post-98489 Wed, 30 Jan 2013 13:56:35 +0000 cb 98489@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Opens on Friday.</p> <p>Nice Loch Gelly / Cowdenbeath slant in the first para.</p> <p><a href="http://www.centralfifetimes.com/news/roundup/articles/2013/01/29/445124-new-junction-will-make-life-easier-for-motorists/">http://www.centralfifetimes.com/news/roundup/articles/2013/01/29/445124-new-junction-will-make-life-easier-for-motorists/</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9272#post-96823 Mon, 14 Jan 2013 13:51:38 +0000 crowriver 96823@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Kirkliston road was closed at the bridge over A90 last week, for about 7 weeks I think. I passed by there and the huge earthworks going on for the additional Foth bridge on Tuesday. </p> <p>Luckily there are nice quiet side roads you can cycle on to get to places like Winchburgh, Broxburn, etc. from Queensferry. </p>