http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: "HS2: 'Timetable needed' for high-speed rail to reach Scotland" en Sun, 31 May 2026 06:01:59 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9360&page=5#post-380418 Mon, 28 Jul 2025 23:02:25 +0000 Tulyar 380418@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>All normal rail projects are ratified by a stage-gate process used by commercial operatprs across a range of industries (Shell has the Green Book for example)</p> <p>For UK Rail this is the GRIP process with 8 stages from concept to construction. Work only starts by GRIP Stage 5, where the designs have been reviewed, ground surveys completed, and land secured.</p> <p>For EGIP (run by Transport Scotland and not DfT) the series of smaller projects, was 'nested' so that the 16 mile railway between Airdrie &amp; Bathgate was opened &amp; running BEFORE Queen Street HL was closed for 6 months, so that trains could keep running, albeit diverted on other routes. Part of EGIP remains incomplete, with the land secured and let on short term leases, pus the basic plans prepared. This will facilitate the new station at Winchburgh(with Kirkliston?), plus a potential new station at Turnhouse for EDI, plus the new housing developments on the old A9 </p> <p>Delays to the elimination of 74 level crossings between DON and KGX, a project I was working on for cycle routes getting closed or diverted in 2013! Still no progress, and a cyclist was killed on Botany Bay LX one of those that was to be eliminated</p> <p>Between Edinburgh and London the 393 miles begin with heading North-East to arc around Haddington, with some twisty bits through Grantshouse, where for comfort the train speeds are restricted, before the long straight stretches including some where trains can (&amp; have) run at up to 160mph.</p> <p>There are 3 significant'slacks' that slow all trains down<br /> Morpeth - the tight curves which have sent 3 trains since 1969 off the rails<br /> Newcastle - slow down at Heaton, to 20mph through Central Staion &amp; speed rising after over the bridge to Tyne Yard<br /> York - just 3 tracks from 4 to cross the Ouse, a flat junction with Harrogate line at Clifton then slowing down for York Station or avoiding line, both 35mph, and then slowly rising speed to Askham Bar</p> <p>Clear those 3 plus deliver the 140mph line speeds that the IC225 trains were built do deliver, and are now being retired &amp; scrapped, never running to their designed potential </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9360&page=5#post-380248 Wed, 09 Jul 2025 14:08:53 +0000 chdot 380248@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>“</p> <p>Mark Wild, chief executive of HS2 Ltd, told the committee that the rush to start work in 2020 without balancing the risks in the contracts was the major reason for costs spiralling upwards.</p> <p>Contracts were signed off in April 2020 and construction formally began five months later, before designs were finalised and local planning consents were in place, he said.</p> <p>“</p> <p><a href="https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/jul/09/hs2-already-billions-over-budget-with-work-just-over-halfway-done-says-rail-boss" rel="nofollow">https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/jul/09/hs2-already-billions-over-budget-with-work-just-over-halfway-done-says-rail-boss</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9360&page=5#post-380050 Thu, 19 Jun 2025 21:33:12 +0000 chdot 380050@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>“</p> <p>It is a measure of the rottenness of British government that Cameron’s project dazzled politicians of both parties as well as the media establishment. Labour’s Ed Balls once said it would cancel HS2 if it costs went beyond the then £50bn price tag. But infrastructure is a religious creed. Its shrines, once sanctified by the Treasury, are beyond criticism.</p> <p>HS2 is clearly a project too big to stop. Everyone I have ever known in government agrees it was a mistake. But to say so in political circles is like questioning the virgin birth. The result is that no transport secretary, no chancellor and no prime minister has felt strong enough to order cancellation.</p> <p>“</p> <p><a href="https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/jun/19/hs2-nigel-farage-labour-high-speed-rail" rel="nofollow">https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/jun/19/hs2-nigel-farage-labour-high-speed-rail</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9360&page=5#post-377139 Fri, 01 Nov 2024 18:36:56 +0000 chdot 377139@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/nov/01/hs2-euston-canary-wharf-labour-old-oak-common" rel="nofollow">https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/nov/01/hs2-euston-canary-wharf-labour-old-oak-common</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9360&page=5#post-376743 Sat, 28 Sep 2024 16:28:57 +0000 chdot 376743@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>“</p> <p>According to the Network Rail ­spokesperson: “There are basically two designs for Euston, one that incorporates HS2 and one that doesn’t.” </p> <p>That sounds sensible, except it turns out there isn’t really a design for either. One insider on the ­­redevelopment team says that there are several planning stages to go through before any kind of designs are drawn up, and no ­master plan exists at present for either eventuality. </p> <p>“</p> <p><a href="https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/sep/28/euston-we-have-a-problem-how-can-london-fix-the-worst-main-station" rel="nofollow">https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/sep/28/euston-we-have-a-problem-how-can-london-fix-the-worst-main-station</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9360&page=5#post-375963 Mon, 29 Jul 2024 14:02:54 +0000 chdot 375963@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>“</p> <p>HS2 has revealed more than £2bn in costs linked to Rishi Sunak’s decision to downgrade the high-speed rail line. </p> <p>In the annual report of HS2 Ltd, the company revealed that it had written off £1.1bn in costs incurred during “phase two” of the project, which was due to link Birmingham to Manchester, only for the leg to be abandoned last year. </p> <p>The company also disclosed a further £1bn in accounting charges relating to the project’s reduced ambitions, which will lower its expected future income </p> <p>“</p> <p><a href="https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/jul/29/hs2-costs-rishi-sunak-chief-executive" rel="nofollow">https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/jul/29/hs2-costs-rishi-sunak-chief-executive</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9360&page=5#post-374540 Thu, 18 Apr 2024 17:47:42 +0000 chdot 374540@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><img src="https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53662343723_8548aed0e3_b.jpg"> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9360&page=5#post-373445 Sun, 18 Feb 2024 11:36:35 +0000 Tulyar 373445@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The Spanish High Speed line through a limestone aquifer was abandoned when the water poured in</p> <p>A key failing of HS2 was that it bypassed the regular project safeguards that most railway work has to meet - namely the GRIP stages 1 to 8. These mirror what is referred to as a stage-gate process, where the preceding stage need to be complete before passing the gateway to the next stage</p> <p>Thus the project scope and needs have to be assessed before evaluating route &amp; other options</p> <p>One moment that really delivered a spat out my coffee moment was when in 2008 a claim was made that no new main line had been built in over 130 years</p> <p>Thanks to a visionary MD of the railway that crossed under the Pennines on a near direct line between Manchester(Liverpool) &amp; Hull, who then bought into the Metropolitan Railway and the SECR, and in 1896 planned the main line to get from Sheffield to Aylesbury, and then to a terminus at Marylebone, but also connecting through via SECR to a Channel Tunnel near Dover. In 1906 (with the twisting and busy Metropolitan Railway a big constraint) the direct main line with parliamentary powers to build 4 tracks, high speed alignments, and provision to enlarge clearances for European mainland trains we had a joint GC/GW railway to Sheffield (right up the middle) and Birmingham</p> <p>It was a good railway and the prototype Class 47 averaged 100mph for 7 miles (105mph through Bicester) on jointed track with semaphore signals in 1962. However in 1968 the line from Euston to Birmingham was electrified, and to make the figures look good the GC line was closed to a residual backwater to force all passengers on to the Euston route</p> <p>There are moves that can salvage what damage has happened to date but there are many ways to get capacity through a programme of much smaller connected and separately delivered details, very much more like the EGIP programme in Scotland</p> <p>For the headline routes Glasgow-and Edinburgh-London, each side has around 3 major 'slacks'<br /> ECML - Morpeth (50mph) Newcastle (20mph) and York (35mph)<br /> 2 - new lines bypass tight bends (Morpeth - inland - York from Clifton to Askham under Holkgate Hill)<br /> Biggest challenge - Newcastle - ideally a tunnel Heaton to Tyne Yard </p> <p>WCML - Carlisle (20mph) Preston (40mph?) and Stafford/Crewe (various)</p> <p>Other less severe ones apply near level crossings (74 were in a plan in 2013 that's made minimal progress between London and Doncaster), and non-stop runs of under 4 hours have been done to Euston and Kings Cross with the current trains</p> <p>4 hours centre to centre is a cleaner and less piecemeal journey than flying, with the ability to do work (earning fees rather than raising costs, plus also having meetings with people joining the train for part of the trip (I used to do debriefing of Grimshaw after a visit to Scotland on the 1 hour trip Glasgow-Carlisle with wine, cheese &amp; rolls from Peckhams)</p> <p>Remember too that neither LNER or Avanti are using IntercityRailfreight with cycle couriers doing final mile and premium parcels service - London to Scotland door to door in 5 hours or less</p> <p>Also noting daily 100mph freight train Birmingham-Motherwell does round trip in around 8 hours replacing up to 24 trucks &amp; drivers, 6-8 hours one way at 56mph top speed</p> <p>Al lot to push for using the existing network plus taking back the old lines kept intact by cycle routes, with a deal that was almost delivered as 'agreed' by Network Rail to build a parallel cycle route, which would be opened when the railway was opened - cue for pestering MSP's about the failure to deliver the section of cycle route Plains to Drumgelloch. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9360&page=5#post-373440 Sun, 18 Feb 2024 00:35:52 +0000 chdot 373440@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>“</p> <p>HS2 Chiltern Tunnel sinkholes appear in Buckinghamshire </p> <p>“</p> <p><a href="https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-68326138" rel="nofollow">https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-68326138</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9360&page=5#post-373297 Wed, 07 Feb 2024 23:31:42 +0000 Arellcat 373297@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>That Jago Hazzard guy is quite worked up about the whole HS2 thing.</p> <p><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DtDw2SN0TI" rel="nofollow">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DtDw2SN0TI</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9360&page=5#post-373296 Wed, 07 Feb 2024 23:23:47 +0000 chdot 373296@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>“</p> <p>The mayors said their largely privately funded alternatives would cost “considerably less” than HS2, although no precise figures existed at this stage.</p> <p>The remaining London-Birmingham line will be ‘very poor value for money’, MPs on the committee said.</p> <p>The mayors have created a consortium chaired by Sir David Higgins, a former chair of HS2, which involves private engineering and finance companies including Arup, EY, Skanska and Mace.</p> <p>“</p> <p><a href="https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/feb/07/mayors-put-forward-alternatives-to-hs2-scrapped-northern-section" rel="nofollow">https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/feb/07/mayors-put-forward-alternatives-to-hs2-scrapped-northern-section</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9360&page=5#post-373291 Wed, 07 Feb 2024 12:26:29 +0000 chdot 373291@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/feb/07/government-does-not-understand-how-hs2-will-function-as-railway" rel="nofollow">https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/feb/07/government-does-not-understand-how-hs2-will-function-as-railway</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9360&page=5#post-372798 Wed, 10 Jan 2024 14:06:14 +0000 chdot 372798@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/jan/10/hs2-cost-of-london-birmingham-line-rise-mps" rel="nofollow">https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/jan/10/hs2-cost-of-london-birmingham-line-rise-mps</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9360&page=5#post-372733 Sat, 06 Jan 2024 13:48:14 +0000 chdot 372733@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/jan/06/labour-could-revive-hs2-northern-legs-after-government-fails-to-sell-off-land" rel="nofollow">https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/jan/06/labour-could-revive-hs2-northern-legs-after-government-fails-to-sell-off-land</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9360&page=5#post-372006 Wed, 29 Nov 2023 17:16:48 +0000 chdot 372006@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>“</p> <p>38m ago</p> <p>15.36 GMT</p> <p>Q: What is going to happen about the HS2 station at Euston? Sir John Armitt, chair of the National Infrastructure Commission, says your plans to get the private sector to fund some of it won’t work.</p> <p>Hunt says he thinks the project will attract private sector finance.</p> <p>“</p> <p><a href="https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2023/nov/29/theresa-may-criticise-rishi-sunak-oil-gas-licences-north-sea-green-policy-covid-inquiry-uk-politics-latest?page=with:block-656759fe8f085effa870ffe4#block-656759fe8f085effa870ffe4" rel="nofollow">https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2023/nov/29/theresa-may-criticise-rishi-sunak-oil-gas-licences-north-sea-green-policy-covid-inquiry-uk-politics-latest?page=with:block-656759fe8f085effa870ffe4#block-656759fe8f085effa870ffe4</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9360&page=5#post-371477 Sun, 05 Nov 2023 23:59:46 +0000 chdot 371477@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>“</p> <p>Ok feedback from my regular Friday lunch with friends from DfT/Treasury/Cabinet Office. 1/5. HS2 appears now to be in a state of total chaos thanks to the PM. His fantasy announcement at conference &amp; subsequent undiscussed/un consulted utterances have everyone going in circles </p> <p>“</p> <p><a href="https://twitter.com/southeastrailgp/status/1720849207664197819" rel="nofollow">https://twitter.com/southeastrailgp/status/1720849207664197819</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9360&page=5#post-371154 Thu, 12 Oct 2023 23:35:08 +0000 chdot 371154@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>“</p> <p>A golf club in Staffordshire that in is the path of HS2 had a new £7m club house bankrolled by the Government after sacrificing £400,000 of land, i can reveal.</p> <p>“</p> <p><a href="https://inews.co.uk/news/golf-club-hs2-bankrolled-government-2679981" rel="nofollow">https://inews.co.uk/news/golf-club-hs2-bankrolled-government-2679981</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9360&page=5#post-371122 Wed, 11 Oct 2023 11:23:11 +0000 chdot 371122@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>“</p> <p>When I was a child, in the 1980s, it was almost inconceivable to take the train to travel between most cities in Spain. The default was a car or a bus. And well into the 1990s a rail journey involved an old, decrepit and congested train. Now it’s almost inconceivable not to take the train if you want to get from Madrid to Barcelona, Seville or Valencia. </p> <p>The country has managed to build itself the longest high-speed rail network in Europe and the second longest in the world, now spanning approximately 2,500 miles (4,000km) (and still expanding). By way of comparison, France has built 1,740 miles (2,800km), and Britain – still coming to terms with its latest high-speed fiasco – 68 (110km). </p> <p>“</p> <p><a href="https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/oct/11/spains-high-speed-trains-arent-just-efficient-they-have-transformed-peoples-lives" rel="nofollow">https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/oct/11/spains-high-speed-trains-arent-just-efficient-they-have-transformed-peoples-lives</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9360&page=4#post-371052 Sun, 08 Oct 2023 14:27:16 +0000 chdot 371052@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>“</p> <p>HS2: announced transport projects were just ‘examples’, says minister </p> <p>Documents detailing projects to be funded with savings from scrapping HS2 deleted from government website </p> <p>“</p> <p><a href="https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/oct/08/hs2-announced-transport-project-were-just-examples-says-minister" rel="nofollow">https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/oct/08/hs2-announced-transport-project-were-just-examples-says-minister</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9360&page=4#post-371046 Sat, 07 Oct 2023 23:32:48 +0000 chdot 371046@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>“</p> <p>There is now concern among experts that the plan to allow HS2 trains to continue to Manchester on existing lines, as outlined by the former transport secretary Grant Shapps before Sunak’s conference speech, could adversely affect the service on the crowded west coast mainline north of Birmingham. </p> <p>The longest Pendolino trains on the much-criticised Avanti service have 607 seats and can travel at speeds of up to 125mph due to their tilting mechanism. However, HS2 trains, which cannot tilt, would be limited to 110mph under current restrictions. </p> <p>“</p> <p><a href="https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/oct/07/sunaks-plan-to-run-part-of-hs2-on-existing-track-may-be-slower-than-existing-service" rel="nofollow">https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/oct/07/sunaks-plan-to-run-part-of-hs2-on-existing-track-may-be-slower-than-existing-service</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9360&page=4#post-371044 Sat, 07 Oct 2023 19:52:59 +0000 acsimpson 371044@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Google suggests you could do it for £4.60 if you are in Manchester. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9360&page=4#post-371035 Sat, 07 Oct 2023 09:55:54 +0000 gembo 371035@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@paddyirish, I could do that for them cheaper. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9360&page=4#post-371033 Sat, 07 Oct 2023 07:46:15 +0000 paddyirish 371033@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/government-pledges-extend-metrolink-line-27842632">an impressive option for HS2 replacement project </a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9360&page=4#post-371012 Thu, 05 Oct 2023 20:13:32 +0000 Yodhrin 371012@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@neddie And I'm pointing what has to happen if we *actually* want to have a shot of doing so, rather than just wringing our hands doing nothing because the absolute best case scenario is an impractical fantasy. Hence my use of the "right wing" term eco-fascism, ie the only political ideology that could successfully implement solutions on the level of "stop building all infrastructure" because you'll never get permission for that in a democracy.</p> <p>You can tell people their lives have to change and win the argument, but if you expect to tell them their lives are doing to get a lot worse, now, immediately, in obvious and impactful ways in order to avert a crisis that still isn't "real" in a core-emotional way even for many of the people who believe it's happening and will be bad, then all you're doing is ignoring the political reality of the situation.</p> <p>I'm by no means arguing for the status quo, we could be going *much* further than any of the mainstream UK parties are advocating, but taking the line you are is functionally a cry to do nothing at all. HS2 is a great example, in fact, the whole argument in microcosm - not a perfect solution, but one that could have had real benefits as part of a broader strategy, and we *told* fellow greens who opposed it on puritanical grounds that *in practice* they were enabling higher carbon alternatives, and what's happened? All the embodied carbon in the sections of line already built - most of which were the most cost and carbon intensive of the whole route - is now wasted; most of the "savings" from HS2 are being spent on new roadbuilding; most of the land that was purchased for the remainder of the route will be sold to volume housebuilder cronies of the Tory party to build car-centric developments; the Euston terminus will only be built on a reduced scale with private money meaning more massive carbon-intensive office blocks or luxury apartment buildings.</p> <p>*slow clap* a great victory for the environment, to be sure. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9360&page=4#post-371011 Thu, 05 Oct 2023 20:09:45 +0000 chdot 371011@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>“</p> <p>Sunak’s ‘spiteful’ sale of land intended for HS2 dashes hopes of revival </p> <p>Prime minister’s move criticised as ‘salting the earth’ so Birmingham-Crewe line cannot be built </p> <p>“</p> <p><a href="https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/oct/05/sunaks-spiteful-sale-of-land-intended-for-hs2-dashes-hopes-of-revival" rel="nofollow">https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/oct/05/sunaks-spiteful-sale-of-land-intended-for-hs2-dashes-hopes-of-revival</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9360&page=4#post-371010 Thu, 05 Oct 2023 19:58:43 +0000 neddie 371010@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>France have not legislated against internal flights in any meaningful way. The legislation removed something like 4 flights a day. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9360&page=4#post-371009 Thu, 05 Oct 2023 19:55:36 +0000 LaidBack 371009@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@neddie - is this still valid? Shows that energy consumption in Sweden is four planets. UKGB two and a half.<br /> <a href="https://www.overshootday.org/how-many-earths-or-countries-do-we-need/" rel="nofollow">https://www.overshootday.org/how-many-earths-or-countries-do-we-need/</a></p> <p>On HS/TGV rail - France legislated against internal flights. Will find link. (Edit - @neddie maybe has.) HS2 had knock on benefits for line capacity so although you could argue it's only for elite it could have benefited towns in England.</p> <p>Sunak's speech was TikTok gold. I felt it was quite significant in a worrying quite of way. His wife's intro and then him appearing - both exuding youth, wealth and confidence. Robert Peston seems to be a bit of a fan and had inside track on the whole 're-launch of the re-launch' strategy. It was a TV moment really and I think media (particularly in Southern England) likes the whole emptiness of it. Even Henry Hill of Conservative Home commented that it was amazing Sunak missed out housing.<br /> The whole spiel though was about England really and the direction that country is set on as I doubt the likely Labour victory in the by election here will herald any shift in policy regarding driving as the primary way to get around. (Modern population = drivers and people that aren't drivers yet kind of mood).<br /> The claim that The United Kingdom (UK) of Northern Ireland (semi EU-UK) is the most amazing multinational state was another thing - even though transport infrastructure is devolved. The subsequent claim that GB&amp;NI is also multicultural with little racism was really stretching things. Was this just to confuse those that support Braverman? He could of course backed up the democratic statesmanlike credentials by name checking Humza Yousaf and saying how the 'bad governments'of the Westminster and Holyrood really need to work together. Instead he inferred that a past FM was 'maybe going down'.<br /> This from a man that has been found guilty of Covid breaches and can't find his WhatsApp messages.<br /> Not surprisingly many voters are turned off.</p> <p>On rails...</p> <p>Guy from SRA reminded people that the £36bn has to be borrowed. There's a cost too for cancellation (Like the ferries or many defence projects).<br /> Each of the new projects needs to be planned and we all know how long that takes! In the end potholes will be filled. Whether they are filled at high speed remains to be seen! We of course could export our world leading pothole filling technology to other countries. :-) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9360&page=4#post-371008 Thu, 05 Oct 2023 19:49:58 +0000 neddie 371008@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I never said anything about the practicalities of “making do”, I’m merely pointing out what has to happen if people <em>genuinely</em> want to avert the existential crisis. </p> <p>So you can shoot the messenger, and use right-wing language like “eco-fascism”, as much as you like, but that won’t change the physics of the situation. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9360&page=4#post-371006 Thu, 05 Oct 2023 18:17:29 +0000 chdot 371006@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>“</p> <p>HS2 will not go to Euston without private funds </p> <p>“</p> <p><a href="https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-67021225" rel="nofollow">https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-67021225</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9360&page=4#post-371005 Thu, 05 Oct 2023 18:09:51 +0000 Yodhrin 371005@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>One for the "technically correct" pile I'm afraid. We're in a bad situation, and at the point of least-worst options; which is more likely, that people(and through them, governments) can be persuaded that taxing/regulating things like flight and cars and fossil fuelled grids is a good thing if adequate alternatives are put in place, or that people(and through them, governments) can be persuaded that taking those steps is a good thing with no alternatives put in place at all, requiring a big drop in living standards in the developed world and a prohibition on the developing world ever reaching those heights of quality of life?</p> <p>In some cases we *must* "build our way out of climate disaster" because telling people that you're taking away all their conveniences and amenities and giving nothing in return bar a promise that doing so will fix the world after they and their children are already long dead - since, let's be real, we're going to be dealing with 1.5C+ for the foreseeable regardless of what mitigation scenario we use - is simply a recipe for failure, because you'll never persuade a sufficient majority to accept it and I don't know about you but I don't fancy eco-fascism any more than the other flavours.</p> <p>Stopping new road building? Perfectly rational. Regulating the &lt;rule2&gt; out of new construction of buildings to make eco-retrofits of existing structures the more appealing option? Arguably a requirement. But saying "we just have to stop building anything" is just hollow puritanism. People need to travel *somehow*, and if we want to seriously restrict cars and air travel then there has to be *some* alternative - in cities that's bikes and mass transit, intercity that has to be rail, and the UK's rail network as-is simply isn't up to the task. Without HS2 as envisioned originally, adding speed and capacity on the other lines is going to be nigh on impossible. </p> <p>To put it in cycling terms: you can put in all the LTNs you like, eventually the main roads need to be addressed or you don't have a viable overall network. </p>