http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: Complaints about groups of cyclists... en Mon, 18 May 2026 20:14:17 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9413&page=2#post-99086 Mon, 04 Feb 2013 18:24:24 +0000 Dave 99086@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>As a driver, I prefer cyclists to ride abreast to make them easier to overtake. That's probably because I actually think about the overtake sensibly (I don't want to try and overtake something as long as an HGV if I don't have to).</p> <p>Singling out is great when the road is otherwise too narrow to overtake (i.e. no room for one car plus two cyclists between verges) or when it's so wide that passing motorists don't need to 'overtake' at all (wide enough for one cyclist and two cars between verges, with space between each). Otherwise, nah.</p> <p>Although, worse than cyclists who single out into dangerous ribbons are the ones who split up into groups (so you can overtake a few at a time) but ride too close to the other groups. It needs to be a hundred yards or so for me to get past and comfortably slow the car down, not just a few car lengths! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9413&page=2#post-99070 Mon, 04 Feb 2013 16:33:36 +0000 Calum 99070@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>No bother :) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9413&page=2#post-99069 Mon, 04 Feb 2013 16:29:57 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 99069@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Apologies Calum, I was mid-rant and meant to add a little more commentary to that post - certainly understood where you were coming from! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9413&page=2#post-99068 Mon, 04 Feb 2013 16:24:35 +0000 amir 99068@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Al that speling nonsence is why I choose the degree course wot I did. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9413&page=2#post-99066 Mon, 04 Feb 2013 16:23:37 +0000 Calum 99066@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@Wilmington's Cow: I said <em>perception</em> - that is, I think it's a common <em>belief</em> that cyclists have to stay to the left and ride single file in order to "stay out of the way" of the "traffic". On that War on Britain's Roads programme, "take the lane" was phrased as "taking over the roads", as if cyclists have no right to cycle in the middle of the lane. As with most sticks used to beat cyclists it is of course nonsense. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9413&page=2#post-99064 Mon, 04 Feb 2013 16:17:22 +0000 crowriver 99064@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Ahem. PelOton.</p> <p>I presume a pelEton would involve a troop of footballers cruising in formation, or somesuch...</p> <p>/pedantry&gt; </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9413&page=2#post-99058 Mon, 04 Feb 2013 15:48:28 +0000 recombodna 99058@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I think if people are taking time out of their day to complain about groups of cyclists on country roads at the weekend these people really need to get a life. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9413&page=2#post-99052 Mon, 04 Feb 2013 15:02:37 +0000 amir 99052@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Some of the peletons seen go beyond what is a sensible size, both for the group itself and other road users. I have complained about this but it is difficult to police as the ERC Saturday rides are unofficial. The recommended group size for ERC rides is 12-14. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9413&page=2#post-99051 Mon, 04 Feb 2013 14:48:44 +0000 Claggy Cog 99051@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>On one occasion we, as a group, were out on a Saturday on a stretch of dual carriageway that runs parallel to the coast at Longniddry, when we could hear shouting behind us, quite a long way away, and before we knew it we were surrounded by the overtaking ERC peleton, hacking along at about 25 mph. We wanted to turn right into the central reservation and across the other carriageway to cross the railway line, but mass confusion was caused by the peleton as to which way to go, we opted to pull over whilst they rushed past...it was all over in a couple of seconds! Phew. They did occupy the whole of the left hand lane but they were, in fairness, really shifting, just not at 60 mph. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9413&page=2#post-99050 Mon, 04 Feb 2013 14:43:00 +0000 Claggy Cog 99050@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Out on Saturday cycling with a friend two abreast, as you do, chatting...Lost count at the number of times we were tooted and shouted at by car drivers, on quiet two way straight country roads, which goes to show how many drivers actually think it is your duty as a cyclist to travel in a single file in the gutter preferably. </p> <p>I tend to get out of the way of tractor drivers, have you seen the size of the bally things, with lethal looking bit of tillers and ploughs attached to the front as well as those fork lift attachments to put their huge hay/straw bales on and their trailers. Possibly my least favourite time of year for cycling around E Lothian, harvest time, busy for the farmers, and all the detritus and mud that they deposit on the roads. Ah well, give and take. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9413#post-99021 Mon, 04 Feb 2013 12:13:39 +0000 steveo 99021@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Move along now, nothing to see here! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9413#post-99016 Mon, 04 Feb 2013 12:06:38 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 99016@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>*group hug*</p> <p>Police: "Excuse me, this group hug is taking up too much space" </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9413#post-99010 Mon, 04 Feb 2013 12:00:09 +0000 Min 99010@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Indeed. I am sure it is not worth getting one's chamois in a bunch and I am sure people will report back here is they find themselves getting stopped for riding with other people. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9413#post-99004 Mon, 04 Feb 2013 11:48:24 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 99004@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"<em>It might but the term used was "cyclists using the road". Not being selfish, not riding 20 abreast but merely "using the road". And that is going to get peoples backs up. It reflects a general attitude towards cycling that some people are trying to get across here.</em>"</p> <p>I can see that reading of it. My own reading was that there was a "..." at the end so there's more of the post that might have gone into detail (it might have been 'when they shouldn't be', or it might have been 'by stringing themselves across and deliberately riding at 5mph to block traffic').</p> <p>I'm doing a certain amount of reading between the lines, so could always be wrong. But I'd be stunned if anyone was complaining to the police about 'cyclists using the road'. I'd be even more stubnned if any action was to come from it. So my reading is that the 'using the road' implies using it in a 'bad' way, and so a complaint is justified, and such a complaint may have made its way to the police indirectly or via a simple community meeting or so on.</p> <p>What all of that, my own reading, proves is that we don't actually know anything about this at all (including the full text of the original post on FB) which to my mind gives us nothing really to worry about, complain about, or argue about. Instead (and I've seen this on all sorts of cycling forums) we immediately see the worst, get defensive, point out how awful drivers are, and see it as society hating us for riding a bike. From one partially quoted excerpt from an unknown person on Facebook.</p> <p>Of course I'm perpetuatuing that argument, so I think I'll step back now. If people want to be upset about it then that is entirely their right, and I'm not going to stop anyone doing that. For me, personally, I'm disappointed this can become such a big thing when there are more, very clear, examples of anti-cyclist stuff out there that deserves our attention. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9413#post-99002 Mon, 04 Feb 2013 11:38:11 +0000 Min 99002@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>Some cyclists were doing something but we don't know what;<br /> Some people complained to the police but we don't know how, or how many, or what action they demanded if any;<br /> The poluice might do something or might not;<br /> It was a post on Facebook so could be completely wrong or misreported or made up.</em></p> <p>It might but the term used was "cyclists using the road". Not being selfish, not riding 20 abreast but merely "using the road". And that is going to get peoples backs up. It reflects a general attitude towards cycling that some people are trying to get across here. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9413#post-98999 Mon, 04 Feb 2013 11:30:08 +0000 Bhachgen 98999@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>On narrower two-lane roads (i.e. those that are not wide enough for bike plus 2 cars to safely pass sidew by side) it is beneficial to everyone for groups to ride 2 abreast. Gives a shorter line for the driver to have to overtake, so they need a shorter stretch of road in which to do it.</p> <p>I wouldn't say there was a "general perception" that single file in the gutter is the legal requirement but it is a view held by a significant, and assertive, minority of motorists. No doubt there is a large correlation between this group and the group that sees 30-limit signs as a signifying a minimum speed and 20-limits as discretionary. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9413#post-98998 Mon, 04 Feb 2013 11:28:55 +0000 steveo 98998@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>That's where the HC is hazy and needs changed as well in my opinion</em></p> <p>I'm not really sure it does, if people used their "common" sense which is what most of the HC is. Few drivers would skim past another car as close as they do a (group) cyclist. Not none as I've had on more than one occasion a moron go between me and an on coming car in middle of the road... </p> <p>I'd back my foot per 10 mph idea from a while back. 3 Feet at a delta of 50 mph is not enough of a margin imo.</p> <p><em>Someone posted the other day on FB that the moon landings were faked. </em></p> <p>They quite clearly were, how else would the flag be fluttering and a Surly get in the background! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9413#post-98996 Mon, 04 Feb 2013 11:22:20 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 98996@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>What this all boils down to is:</p> <p>Some cyclists were doing something but we don't know what;<br /> Some people complained to the police but we don't know how, or how many, or what action they demanded if any;<br /> The poluice might do something or might not;<br /> It was a post on Facebook so could be completely wrong or misreported or made up.</p> <p>And we're arguing about every level of that hypothetical situation.</p> <p>Someone posted the other day on FB that the moon landings were faked. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9413#post-98995 Mon, 04 Feb 2013 11:19:45 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 98995@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"<em>to safely over take you should be giving as much room as you would a car</em>"</p> <p>That's where the HC is hazy and needs changed as well in my opinion. Because it says exactly that, as much room as you would give a car, and not "a car's width". The rule people clamour for is a '3 feet' rule - one which I'd back being changed to in the HC! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9413#post-98994 Mon, 04 Feb 2013 11:17:48 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 98994@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"<em>Do you go the police every time you see someone acting selfishly?</em>2</p> <p>I refer back to my post. How did they 'go to the police'? Was it mentioned by the by in a community meeting? Was it a formal complaint? Was it 999?</p> <p>None of which actually changes what I'd said - I've never defended someone 'going to the police' about people acting selfishly ("<em>Yes, seems an extreme reaction</em>"), but merely that cyclists 'can' act selfishly and therefore people have a right to complain if they come across it. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9413#post-98993 Mon, 04 Feb 2013 11:17:24 +0000 Min 98993@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Roibeard. </p> <p>Anyone on the NEPN who has been deemed by the police to be breaking some made up (by them) "speed limit" that doesn't exist.</p> <p>The person who posted on here a while back about being pulled over for cycling in the cycle lane in North St Andrew St. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9413#post-98992 Mon, 04 Feb 2013 11:16:51 +0000 steveo 98992@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>But by that logic any one going below the speed of the guy behind is being selfish and as for caravans...</p> <p>Even if they were riding three, four or even in single file to safely over take you should be giving as much room as you would a car, which on anything but wide dual carriageway means crossing the line to the other lane. So if all parties were sticking to the actual HC not the perceived one there really is no problem with groups just people who don't like being held up. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9413#post-98991 Mon, 04 Feb 2013 11:15:22 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 98991@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"<em>... and also how willing the police are to pull over any cyclist who is not breaking any rules</em>"</p> <p>I can think of the Daniel Cadden case, but other than that? I've never been pulled over. I know gembo has, but then he <em>was</em> technically doing something he shouldn't have been. I'd be interested to know the stats on cyclists being pulled over randomly - I think again there's a perception of this that doesn't actually stand up.</p> <p>Willing to be proved wrong by an FOI to L&amp;B's finest on number of cyclists stopped without evidence of infringement compared to motorists. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9413#post-98990 Mon, 04 Feb 2013 11:14:37 +0000 Min 98990@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Do you go the police every time you see someone acting selfishly? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9413#post-98989 Mon, 04 Feb 2013 11:12:03 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 98989@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Again, does any of that mean that cyclists can't be acting selfishly? And if they are should they not be complained about? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9413#post-98987 Mon, 04 Feb 2013 11:11:02 +0000 Min 98987@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>And we also know how many people are ignorant of the fact that it is not breaking any rules to ride two abreast and how willing they are to use their vehicle as weapons against anyone who is not breaking any rules and also how willing the police are to pull over any cyclist who is not breaking any rules. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9413#post-98986 Mon, 04 Feb 2013 11:08:33 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 98986@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"<em>And how many have gone to the police about it?</em>"</p> <p>Not sure whether that changes if a group of cyclists is acting selfishly or not?</p> <p>Yes, seems an extreme reaction, but in what circumstances were complaints made? Was 999 called? Was it raised at a regular community meeting as an 'any other business' point? Again, we don't know enough to immediately get on the defensive about this... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9413#post-98985 Mon, 04 Feb 2013 11:06:43 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 98985@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"<em>I'm fairly sure that there's a general perception that cyclists are legally required to ride single-file and as far to the left as possible</em></p> <p>Nah, not more than two abreast, and no requirement to be as far left as possible. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9413#post-98984 Mon, 04 Feb 2013 11:05:35 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 98984@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"<em>...without more info it's impossible to judge whether the complaints mentioned were valid or not.</em>"</p> <p>Precisely. Though I do think there are instances when riding on the pavement is safer (alongside, say, a 40mph road which people drive at 60 on and there are never any pedestrians there); same with 'taking an early green' (in front of a truck and you're not sure if they've seen you). I should point out that I never do these things, but I can understand why people do.</p> <p>"<em>I'd just point out that riding two abreast in some cases can be good and safe practice (a la Franklin). For example, if you are riding along a narrow and curvy road.</em>"</p> <p>I'm not disagreeing that it might be safer, but should we therefore 'break' the 'rules' to do so? (riding along a narrow and curvy road is <em>precisely</em> when the Highway Code says cyclists should single out - so is there a place here to suggest that the HC needs to be amended?).</p> <p><em>Rule 66</p> <p>... never ride more than two abreast, and ride in single file on narrow or busy roads and when riding round bends</em> (though it's a 'should' rather than a 'must').</p> <p>Apologies to all for my snarky comments. I just think we (as 'cyclists') have a tendency to wander into victimisation when we might not know all of the circumstances - it's almost as if a 'cyclist couldn't possibly be doing anything wrong' cloud descends. Unfortunately, like with motorists, cyclists are 'people' and therefore a certain element will be prone to selfish acts, so we can't claim to e whiter than white. Yes, we do less harm/cause less damage, but we can't immediately start slating motorists when we don't know the full facts - it simply reinforces 'them versus us' and, <em>in my opinion</em>, makes it seem like we're unwilling to accept a cyclist could ever do wrong, which is a little counter-productive. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9413#post-98982 Mon, 04 Feb 2013 11:01:00 +0000 Min 98982@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em> How many people here have been driving and held up by a tractor that they've cursed cos it hasn't gone into a layby?</em></p> <p>And how many have gone to the police about it? </p>