http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: "Obesity in Scotland costs around £475m a year" en Sun, 31 May 2026 10:02:47 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9462&page=2#post-344934 Tue, 26 Jan 2021 12:04:52 +0000 I were right about that saddle 344934@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>genotype does not equal phenotype</em></p> <p>Can I get an 'Amen!' up here? Can I? People? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9462&page=2#post-344933 Tue, 26 Jan 2021 11:59:15 +0000 14Westfield 344933@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The BBC link was a really interesting listen.</p> <p>But genotype does not equal phenotype - beyond the test tube there is so much more both voluntary and involuntary environmental pressure going on. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9462#post-344931 Tue, 26 Jan 2021 11:50:09 +0000 chdot 344931@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Programme basically concluded that while there is an element of ‘personal choice’, ‘solution’ includes ‘fixing the environment’ - ie availability of fast food etc. (Don’t think advertising was mentioned.)</p> <p>Didn’t hear the word <a href="https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-magazine-monitor-27601593">obesogenic</a>. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9462#post-344930 Tue, 26 Jan 2021 11:40:31 +0000 I were right about that saddle 344930@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I am also big on epigenetics which is fascinating. Particularly the Dutch post-war famine studies which bear on obesity. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9462#post-344927 Tue, 26 Jan 2021 11:33:32 +0000 wingpig 344927@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Enzymes are proteins. Enzyme expression and regulation a complicated mix of instructions/templates and environment, but where the environment can be as small and specific as a sub-cellular vesicle. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9462#post-344926 Tue, 26 Jan 2021 11:28:33 +0000 gembo 344926@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>He has located the receptor in 25 per cent of labradors. POCM. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9462#post-344921 Tue, 26 Jan 2021 10:57:05 +0000 I were right about that saddle 344921@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Genes code for proteins and nothing else. I will die on this hill.</p> <p>Labradors have a gene that codes for a protein that is a stomach stretch-receptor that isn't as responsive as other dogs' versions? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9462#post-344920 Tue, 26 Jan 2021 10:51:03 +0000 gembo 344920@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Fortunately he is more nuanced than that. His Gene research with labradors reported in the sun as Flabradors.</p> <p>Some people are predisposed to not put on weight (I was like that for years but metabolic rate or whatever slowing down now) others predisposed to pile on the beef. But he did emphasize lifestyle choices.</p> <p>The poor used to be malnourished, now they are obese. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9462#post-344916 Tue, 26 Jan 2021 09:39:59 +0000 chdot 344916@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>“</p> <p>Giles Yeo on how our genes can make us fat </p> <p>“</p> <p><a href="https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000rmp5" rel="nofollow">https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000rmp5</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9462#post-177102 Wed, 07 Jan 2015 15:25:49 +0000 neddie 177102@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Ahem!</p> <p>It's actually 10 times that figure:</p> <p>Obesity costs Scotland up to £4bn, says parliament report</p> <p><a href="http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-30712231" rel="nofollow">http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-30712231</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9462#post-116319 Mon, 01 Jul 2013 00:19:36 +0000 chdot 116319@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="http://www.scotsman.com/the-scotsman/health/kids-aged-3-are-treated-in-hospital-for-obesity-1-2984134" rel="nofollow">http://www.scotsman.com/the-scotsman/health/kids-aged-3-are-treated-in-hospital-for-obesity-1-2984134</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9462#post-116299 Sun, 30 Jun 2013 14:45:45 +0000 custard 116299@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>My biggest cost to the NHS so far was caused by cycling ;) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9462#post-116291 Sat, 29 Jun 2013 22:20:26 +0000 wee folding bike 116291@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Greggs in Gordon St, Glasgow, is open till 0400 or 0500 hrs. I've never been there late enough to check. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9462#post-116251 Sat, 29 Jun 2013 10:47:13 +0000 chdot 116251@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><img src="https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BN6ej9WCcAAm8P9.jpg"> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9462#post-99933 Mon, 11 Feb 2013 16:51:33 +0000 wee folding bike 99933@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Passed finals in 1988. Bottle of Moet was sitting in a Botany dept cold room.</p> <p>Sister's wedding in 1996. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9462#post-99899 Mon, 11 Feb 2013 14:31:43 +0000 kaputnik 99899@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Did the study uncover what momentous event happened in 1988? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9462#post-99895 Mon, 11 Feb 2013 14:23:04 +0000 wee folding bike 99895@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I read a few years ago that the figures for people who don't drink includes people who used to drink a lot and were told to give up. This might cause a surprising result as they would be lumped in with people who stopped drinking it when they were 17 and in the last 30 years have had half a bottle of champagne and half a glass of wine (1988 and 1996 respectively). </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9462#post-99874 Mon, 11 Feb 2013 12:42:25 +0000 crowriver 99874@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>From HMRC web site:</p> <p><em>Food and drink for human consumption is, in general, zero-rated but many items are standard-rated, including alcoholic drinks, confectionery, crisps and savoury snacks, hot food, sports drinks, supplies of food made in the course of catering including hot takeaways, ice cream, soft drinks and mineral water.</p> <p>Because certain food and drink is zero-rated, so too are certain animals and animal feeds, and plants and seeds - if the animal or plant in question produces food that is normally used for human consumption.</em> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9462#post-99873 Mon, 11 Feb 2013 12:40:34 +0000 crowriver 99873@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I thought food was zero VAT, except in certain cases (eg. takeaways)? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9462#post-99864 Mon, 11 Feb 2013 11:57:10 +0000 Min 99864@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Yes, being fat and fit is better than being thin and unfit - I thought. But this paper seems to be suggesting that more physical exercise <em>increases</em> your cost to the NHS. Unfortunately I can't access it. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9462#post-99863 Mon, 11 Feb 2013 11:54:09 +0000 fimm 99863@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>There are some stats to the effect that a small amount of the right kind of alcohol appears to have a benificial effect on people of a particular age...</p> <p>wrt "adjusting for ... physical activity level" the following may or may not be relevant: some time ago I read an article contrasting a "Mr Fat" and a "Mr Thin". The reason I read it was that "Mr Fat" was a member of the triathlon forum at that time. He'd been very obese, had got into triathlon and was now merely somewhat overweight (and continuing to lose weight) and a regular exerciser. The "Mr Thin" on the other hand, smoked and did no exercise whatsoever. Mr Fat scored better on all the various heath measures that they tested than Mr Thin did (except weight, of course). What this actually goes to show I don't quite know. (I refuse to locate the article as it was on the Daily Mail.) </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9462#post-99860 Mon, 11 Feb 2013 11:48:59 +0000 Min 99860@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>I would imagine that the average seriously obese person is paying more than £700 a year to the Treasury in food related VAT?</em></p> <p>I thought the whole controversy with all the sugar and salt encrusted food was that it is too cheap and needs to be taxed higher? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9462#post-99856 Mon, 11 Feb 2013 11:37:21 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 99856@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I have to admit, I'd doubted that the revenue was more than the expenditure, but this from ASH (who let's face it aren't impartial) suggests it may be the case.</p> <p>On costs:</p> <p>"<em>Research commissioned by ASH has shown that the cost to the NHS of treating diseases caused by smoking is approximately £2.7 billion a year.6 Another study put the estimated cost as high as £5.2 billion.7 A report by the Policy Exchange in 2010 estimated the total cost to society of smoking to be £13.74 billion. This includes the £2.7bn cost to the NHS but also the loss in productivity from smoking breaks (£2.9bn) and increased absenteeism (£2.5bn). Other costs include: cleaning up cigarette butts (£342 million), the cost of fires (£507m), the loss of economic output from the death of smokers (£4.1bn) and passive smokers (£713m).8 However, it is also estimated that about £380 million a year is being saved by the NHS as a result of public health strategies such as the ban on tobacco advertising and the creation of the stop smoking services which have resulted in fewer people smoking</em>"</p> <p>On revenue:</p> <p>"<em>The Treasury earned £9.5 billion in revenue from tobacco duties in the financial year 2011-2012 (excluding VAT).16 This amounts to 2% of total Government revenue. Including VAT at an estimated £2.6bn, total tobacco revenue was £12.1bn</em>"</p> <p>I find it hard to include in the costs the 'loss of economic output from the death of smokers' since, presumably, they'll be replaced by someone, so exactly where lies the cost (as I say, ASH aren't impartial).</p> <p>Of course I'm not advocating that anyone should smoke, but it's interesting. It's a pity the money from smoking revenue isn't hypothecated, but overall smokers possibly are net contributors... I'd stick my neck out and ssay food revenues wouldn't add up tot he cost of obesity realted 'costs' - the cigarette tax is apparently 78%, which is somewhat higher than VAT. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9462#post-99853 Mon, 11 Feb 2013 11:32:19 +0000 amir 99853@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>It must be better to point out the benfits that an improved lifestyle would offer to the individual.</p> <p>The cost argument could be used to demonstrate to the NHS the benefit of offering preventative treatment rather than waiting for problems to pile up. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9462#post-99846 Mon, 11 Feb 2013 11:22:08 +0000 Baldcyclist 99846@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I would imagine that the average seriously obese person is paying more than £700 a year to the Treasury in food related VAT? Just as, as a whole smokers pay more to the Treasury in taxes than they cost to treat.</p> <p>Yes, they may be a drain on the system, but they die young. Are they any more of a drain on the system that a 90 year old who can't look after themselves, and require constant care for years?</p> <p>I must admit, I don't like targeting specific demographics because we may not like the life choices they make. Should I not have received treatment when I had broken ribs as a result of a cycling accident 3 years ago? Or what about immigrants who are imagined to be stressing the system, should we stop treating them? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9462#post-99842 Mon, 11 Feb 2013 11:06:36 +0000 Min 99842@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Sorry, it is non-drinkers are more expensive than drinkers. Non-smokers are cheaper than smokers. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9462#post-99841 Mon, 11 Feb 2013 11:05:17 +0000 Min 99841@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Yes, I don't understand that. In the abstract they also seem to be suggesting that non-smokers are more expensive than smokers. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9462#post-99840 Mon, 11 Feb 2013 11:02:39 +0000 amir 99840@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I am not tempted to read the paper but in the news report, the following statement is interesting:</p> <p>"after adjusting for sex, age, smoking, alcohol consumption and physical activity level"</p> <p>especially the last bit. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9462#post-99839 Mon, 11 Feb 2013 10:56:45 +0000 Min 99839@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>No, it is a random selection of 3324 patients who have gone to their GP, many of those are going to have gone in for a sore toe or something and not for rare and expensive diseases. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9462#post-99833 Mon, 11 Feb 2013 10:28:09 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 99833@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Is it maybe just an averaged figure based on, say, number of heart disease patients requring surgery who happen to be obese?</p> <p>There are some definite knock-on financial aspects. Ambulances are having to be upgraded to take the weight for example (you do get lots of little insights into the world of the NHS when your other half works for the organisation - though you could argue they should have ordered better quality ambulances in the first place... :P).</p> <p>I'd put money on the scientists looknig at the report and saying, "but, that's <em>not</em> what we said!". </p>