http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: WARNING - cones, bottom of Argyle Place en Sun, 17 May 2026 05:29:29 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9465&page=10#post-220961 Wed, 25 May 2016 22:31:06 +0000 Nelly 220961@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>You are not wrong. I walked it a lot over the last week going to/from jury duty.</p> <p>I don't think I used the "official route" once.</p> <p>Works OK(is) for bike, but rubbish and complex as a pedestrian. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9465&page=10#post-220953 Wed, 25 May 2016 20:56:39 +0000 SRD 220953@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I've always thought the new layout was bad for pedestrians, and have been struck since it opened that pedestrians never follow the 'intended' route from MMW to argyle place, which involves going right after crossing at the toucan, and walking at an angle up to AP. Even though that route has dropped kerbs, tactile a etc, pedestrians always follow their desire line and walk straight from toucan over multiple kerbs to AP. Or, if pushing buggies, they just take the cycle lane, irrespective in on-coming. Today I saw a white cane user negotiating this. He either ignored the tactile so or didn't realise he was supposed to turn right to go straight, and ended up trying to find the kerb to step down into the bike lane and then try to get across. A nightmare. </p> <p>The junction there is bound to be tricky, but I don't see why they couldn't do something that would be safe and easy for bikes and peds. I suppose the answer is banning left hand turns, which would doubters be unpopular. Sigh. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9465&page=9#post-145793 Tue, 18 Mar 2014 13:20:36 +0000 ARobComp 145793@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Melville drive cones narrow very suddenly at the moment and really almost caused me to get a BMW up my arse! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9465&page=9#post-145773 Tue, 18 Mar 2014 11:07:57 +0000 wingpig 145773@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Plastic barriers encroaching on the bike side of the shared-use path between Argyle Place/Meadow Place last night. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9465&page=9#post-145771 Tue, 18 Mar 2014 11:05:08 +0000 kaputnik 145771@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Cones in both on-road painted lanes on Melville Drive between Argyle Place and Marchmont Road this morning. Filterable with care, or go on South Meadow Walk to avoid.</p> <p>Pavements being dug up and re-laid. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9465&page=9#post-105413 Thu, 21 Mar 2013 23:59:10 +0000 wingpig 105413@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Indeed pleasing. I went through both north-south and back on Monday. Both times it was just changing away from green as I approached. Both times it went green again within a few seconds of my arrival. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9465&page=9#post-105408 Thu, 21 Mar 2013 22:47:39 +0000 kaputnik 105408@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I am pleased to report that the induction loop for changing the lights when you approach from MMW now works again. And the sequence went in my favour very rapidly this evening, even though I had only just missed nipping through on a "cyclists' amber" </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9465&page=9#post-105388 Thu, 21 Mar 2013 18:19:08 +0000 SRD 105388@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I gather the is an issue about the gate opening outwards. And thus potentially obstructing cyclists. That side will be the pedestrian side. Cyclists will be on the outside. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9465&page=9#post-105387 Thu, 21 Mar 2013 18:17:07 +0000 mgj 105387@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The fence was there because the ground floor used to be a nursery, IIRC </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9465&page=9#post-105249 Wed, 20 Mar 2013 19:37:00 +0000 kaputnik 105249@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I will welcome the return of the segregation line, too many pedestrians milling all over the shop now exploring the expansive new tarmac.</p> <p>Also I notice the strange fence around the gate to that tenement has been removed. It's currently coned and taped off over on the grass, suggesting it might be getting put back in? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9465&page=9#post-105209 Wed, 20 Mar 2013 13:48:52 +0000 Arellcat 105209@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The new diagonal footpath from Leamington Walk to the pavement, on the west side of the Argyle Place junction, needs some draining. It had a lovely pool of meltwater this morning about halfway along, and it wasn't draining into the grass.</p> <p>I had the chance today to try out the left turn from LW. I found it a bit hard to tell the extent of the dropped kerb until I was almost on top of it. Some Meadow Place-style dotted lines across the road in that area might be useful. I like the new junction though! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9465&page=9#post-105116 Tue, 19 Mar 2013 22:19:15 +0000 chdot 105116@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/chdot/8572168404/"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8379/8572168404_6b58e83e9e.jpg"></a><br /> <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/chdot/8572168404/">New tarmac</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9465&page=9#post-104735 Sat, 16 Mar 2013 22:55:30 +0000 Dave 104735@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Fimm, possible but the right turning traffic was busy, it might be interesting to follow up though. Also the obvious doing bike survey after heavy snow and ice may have suppressed the two wheel count a lot. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9465&page=9#post-104733 Sat, 16 Mar 2013 22:11:55 +0000 bdellar 104733@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>My feelings on the junction are that they don't seem to have considered all the various routes that cyclists or pedestrians can take through it. It seems OK for certain routes, but not all. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9465&page=9#post-104727 Sat, 16 Mar 2013 18:39:35 +0000 fimm 104727@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Dave, is it possible that there were fewer vehicles because the junction is newly re-opened and so people are still going a different way? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9465&page=9#post-104713 Sat, 16 Mar 2013 16:55:45 +0000 Dave 104713@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>PS. It turns out it's dead easy to do a traffic survey by just sticking the headcam on a tripod and then replaying the video at 120fps when you get home. Takes 15 minutes for each hour (although it's still a bit of a drag, if you want to count multiple stuff). </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9465&page=9#post-104703 Sat, 16 Mar 2013 15:21:06 +0000 Dave 104703@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>In fact I counted both the duration of the green phase for cyclists (up to a very generous 15 seconds) and the time between phases (a very reasonable ~23 seconds in rush hour) as part of my survey.</p> <p>I have the results written up now : let me know if you think I've missed anything.</p> <p><a href="http://mccraw.co.uk/new-argyle-place-junction-review/" rel="nofollow">http://mccraw.co.uk/new-argyle-place-junction-review/</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9465&page=9#post-104684 Sat, 16 Mar 2013 13:24:57 +0000 chdot 104684@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"I think they've improved the lights sequence for cyclists"</p> <p>My impression too. </p> <p>Presume not coincidence. </p> <p>There was a 'promise' to improve detection - which presumably has happened <em>too</em>. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9465&page=9#post-104683 Sat, 16 Mar 2013 13:17:36 +0000 DrAfternoon 104683@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Cautiously, I think they've improved the lights sequence for cyclists. I ride through every day, and definitely got a much longer than usual green yesterday evening, coming from MMW heading south. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9465&page=9#post-104644 Fri, 15 Mar 2013 23:23:36 +0000 mgj 104644@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@SRD, @Dave To be fair to drivers, there is no 'No Right Turn' sign at the end of the left spur, so no legal reason that they cant do that... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9465&page=9#post-104641 Fri, 15 Mar 2013 21:29:35 +0000 Dave 104641@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Hmm. That is not to suggest they flew through the air twelve feet (that would truly have been an amazing bunny hop). More of a double hop. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9465&page=9#post-104640 Fri, 15 Mar 2013 21:28:57 +0000 Dave 104640@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>When I was surveying, I was surprised by the relatively high proportion of people who ride straight over the pedestrian dropped kerbs at the southernmost end of the junction (either continuing on SMW or transferring to the quiet street alongside).</p> <p>Significant numbers also rode the wrong way up the slip road to get onto Argyle Place.</p> <p>There were a few other interesting combinations. Someone bunny-hopped from the slip road right over the first island into the reservation..! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9465&page=9#post-104606 Fri, 15 Mar 2013 16:41:30 +0000 cc 104606@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>At lunchtime I saw someone cycling east to west across the junction. She ignored the newly expanded curvy cycle lane bits and instead cycled straight across the dropped-kerb pedestrian bits in the middle of the junction. Easier, more direct! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9465&page=9#post-104604 Fri, 15 Mar 2013 16:27:42 +0000 SRD 104604@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>K'nik you know the intersection better than I do. I'll have another look. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9465&page=9#post-104601 Fri, 15 Mar 2013 16:18:28 +0000 kaputnik 104601@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>But won't most pedestrians be on SMW? not on the pavement beside the road? </p> <p>it's not so straightforward for them - esp if, for instance, they want to continue across the junction ie east-west on SMW.<br /> </em></p> <p>Have to say I disagree with this bit - previously there was no dropped kerbing at all on the islands, if you were going across Argyle Place from one side of SMW to the other. At least now there is some.</p> <p>Agree that they should also have raised the roadway into a speedbump / level crossing across the mouth of Argyle Park Terrace.</p> <p>Belisha Beacons a la Zebra crossing across Argyle Place would be great. Is there a toucan-crossing variant of a Zebra? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9465&page=9#post-104584 Fri, 15 Mar 2013 14:41:16 +0000 SRD 104584@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Dave - I'm sure you're right. I always enjoy that segment of my ride - it is by far the quietest and least controversial. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9465&page=9#post-104583 Fri, 15 Mar 2013 14:38:18 +0000 Dave 104583@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Hmm. I hope they won't put the lines down today. I was hoping to record cyclist speeds on the unsegregated route to compare post-segregation (my hypothesis being they will significantly increase). </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9465&page=9#post-104579 Fri, 15 Mar 2013 14:20:22 +0000 chdot 104579@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/chdot/8558685411/"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8387/8558685411_2f1990bb8c.jpg"></a><br /> <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/chdot/8558685411/">SMW gets the motorway treatment</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9465&page=9#post-104578 Fri, 15 Mar 2013 14:13:38 +0000 SRD 104578@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>But won't most pedestrians be on SMW? not on the pavement beside the road? </p> <p>it's not so straightforward for them - esp if, for instance, they want to continue across the junction ie east-west on SMW.</p> <p>Nor for those walking down pavements on Argyle place and then trying to get to MMW. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9465&page=9#post-104576 Fri, 15 Mar 2013 14:11:55 +0000 kaputnik 104576@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>If you are trying to go perpendicular to Argyle Place, the new crossing makes it much more obvious on foot and bike which way to take. </p>