http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: If you can sit at 25-30mph around the town for even short bursts... en Wed, 24 Jun 2026 08:08:43 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9532&page=2#post-101838 Mon, 25 Feb 2013 10:41:06 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 101838@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Gimme a sec. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9532&page=2#post-101837 Mon, 25 Feb 2013 10:34:46 +0000 chdot 101837@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>New thread? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9532&page=2#post-101835 Mon, 25 Feb 2013 10:09:42 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 101835@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"<em>Anyone want to join me in drafting a petition seeking the closure of Holyrood Park to through traffic?</em>"</p> <p>Happy to jump in with my tuppenceworth... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9532&page=2#post-101831 Mon, 25 Feb 2013 09:32:58 +0000 BaseCut 101831@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Yes, but a bit more faded. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9532&page=2#post-101785 Sun, 24 Feb 2013 14:18:07 +0000 chdot 101785@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Are these still there?</p> <p><a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/chdot/2393419870/"><img src="http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2369/2393419870_647605db27.jpg"></a><br /> <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/chdot/2393419870/">Holyrood Park</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9532&page=2#post-101298 Wed, 20 Feb 2013 18:34:03 +0000 crowriver 101298@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Okay, I'm up for doing something about this. Anyone want to join me in drafting a petition seeking the closure of Holyrood Park to through traffic?</p> <p>I've no problem with access to the car park via the Parly/Holyrood Palace roundabout ie. visitors to the park/palace/parliament. It's the constant stream of rat running traffic that is getting me really irked, and ruining the park for others. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9532&page=2#post-101297 Wed, 20 Feb 2013 18:27:36 +0000 crowriver 101297@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>From the above:</p> <p><em>How many vehicles go through Holyrood Park on a daily basis?<br /> Approximately 20,000 at weekends and 25,000 on weekdays.</em></p> <p>Also:</p> <p><em>Historic Scotland has a legal duty to protect Holyrood Park, its significantly important cultural and natural heritage, and promote its benefits for recreational users.</p> <p>Historic Scotland, Lothian and Borders Police and the City of Edinburgh Council are jointly reinforcing these measures in order to preserve an area of natural beauty that can be enjoyed across the city, as well as easing traffic congestion for people who live in the vicinity of the Park.</em></p> <p>And:</p> <p><em>I pay my road tax and am entitled to use this road</p> <p>The roads within the Park are classed as Crown Property and do not form part of the city road network. Access is permitted to these roads subject to the conditions laid down in the Park Regulations Act.</p> <p>Additionally, Holyrood Park is under the ownership and care of the Scottish Ministers and managed through Historic Scotland. Historic Scotland look after the Park and the road infrastructure. Historic Scotland is an agency of the Scottish Government from whom it receives three quarters of its funding. This funding goes towards the upkeep of Scheduled Ancient Monuments. It receives no direct funding for the upkeep of the Park roads.</em> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9532#post-101296 Wed, 20 Feb 2013 18:27:22 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 101296@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"<em>Anyway, They could easily close off the roads permanently: the barriers are already there, except I think the road to Duddingston.</em>"</p> <p>Nope, all there as well, so easily done! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9532#post-101294 Wed, 20 Feb 2013 18:23:33 +0000 crowriver 101294@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Historic Scotland is apparently an "Executive Agency" of the Scottish Government. So I guess ultimately it's Holyrood.</p> <p>Here are the FAQ on Holyrood Park traffic regs review:</p> <p><a href="http://www.historic-scotland.gov.uk/faqs-traffic-regs-holyrood.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.historic-scotland.gov.uk/faqs-traffic-regs-holyrood.pdf</a></p> <p>Current consultation on "how the policy for the historic environment delivers, contributes to, or obstructs other environmental objectives."</p> <p>I can imagine quite a few ways in which using Holyrood Park as a rat run obstructs other environmental obkjectives!</p> <p><a href="http://www.historic-scotland.gov.uk/index/heritage/policy/environmental-assessment/historicscotlandsea.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.historic-scotland.gov.uk/index/heritage/policy/environmental-assessment/historicscotlandsea.htm</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9532#post-101293 Wed, 20 Feb 2013 18:15:43 +0000 crowriver 101293@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@chdot, perhaps a petition to Edinburgh Council is in order? Or is it Holyrood (via "arm's length" bodies Historic Scotland/SNH) that needs to be petitioned? Or both? Or maybe the Queen?</p> <p>Anyway, They could easily close off the roads permanently: the barriers are already there, except I think the road to Duddingston. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9532#post-101266 Wed, 20 Feb 2013 17:18:07 +0000 mgj 101266@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Under current legislation (daft, but there you are), pedestrians can walk on either side of these lines; the restrictions only apply to bikes. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9532#post-101242 Wed, 20 Feb 2013 16:30:05 +0000 chdot 101242@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Time to get motors out of the Park. </p> <p>Start at the top and work down... </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9532#post-101241 Wed, 20 Feb 2013 16:25:55 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 101241@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"<em>However very few pedestrians understand the difference and most of them walk on the cycle path - quite understandably really as it's just a footpath that's been coloured green</em>"</p> <p>The other issue is that cycle paths anywhere else, when they are differently coloured, are generally red - it's just the park where they're green and the ped sections are red (might also be why so many right on the pavement on the south road - though that could also be because drivers on the south road take it as a 40-50mph race track). </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9532#post-101239 Wed, 20 Feb 2013 16:05:55 +0000 earthowned 101239@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The paths are fine for pootling. However, I must admit that I mostly stay on the road because I don't like sharing a space with walkers if I'm in a rush. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9532#post-101227 Wed, 20 Feb 2013 15:33:45 +0000 cc 101227@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>chdot: it's stripy like that on the hilly bit, roughly from Dumbiedykes upwards </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9532#post-101226 Wed, 20 Feb 2013 15:32:08 +0000 chdot 101226@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>It was like this four years ago, isn't it still? Or just near the top?</p> <p><a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/chdot/3833012581/"><img src="http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2490/3833012581_e7fe74241b.jpg"></a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9532#post-101221 Wed, 20 Feb 2013 15:24:20 +0000 crowriver 101221@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>TBH most peds on the park path are fine and clear the way when I ring my bell. There's the odd one that is either deaf, wearing headphones or bloody mindedly standing their ground, mind you. Did a circuit of the path with my daughter on the back seat on Monday afternoon*, nice and sunny and lots of people out walking in the park. Also a huge number of cars, really too many I think. There was a big tailback at the roundabout going to Duddingston/Commie Pool.</p> <p>* - Went down the Innocent, to Porty and back via the 'closed' Seafield/Leith path. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9532#post-101217 Wed, 20 Feb 2013 15:16:24 +0000 cc 101217@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The uphill part is a shared path (it's striped; one half of the narrow path is red, the other green) and the more level parts are segregated, with the cycle path being the green path on the Crags side of the road and the footpath being the red path on the parliament/palace side of the road.</p> <p>However very few pedestrians understand the difference and most of them walk on the cycle path - quite understandably really as it's just a footpath that's been coloured green. I make energetic use of my bell when using the cycle path. I wouldn't recommend use of the path without a good bell as it always has people walking on it.</p> <p>To be more explicit: if cycle paths had a distinctive road-ish look to them I think we'd be justified in being annoyed by people walking on them. But in this country they don't. They're generally just paths of any old appearance which have a few pictures of bicycles slapped on them here and there. I can't blame people on foot if they're not immediately aware of the fine distinction. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9532#post-101216 Wed, 20 Feb 2013 15:12:02 +0000 Instography 101216@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Queen's Drive? Is it segregated into a peds section and a bike section? Even so, if not technically or morally wrong it seems a little unaccommodating to be annoyed at having to give a little ding or an 'excuse me'. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9532#post-101192 Wed, 20 Feb 2013 13:41:46 +0000 BaseCut 101192@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I'm a new poster on here. I cycle up through the park, east to west most nights, on the cycle path. Am I wrong in being annoyed and impatient with the peds who insist on walking on the cycle path. It is clearly marked and when I'm struggling up the hill I really don't want to expend energy going around them, ringing bell etc.</p> <p>Gave up cycling west to east down through the park in the morning, as it's a race-track. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9532#post-101191 Wed, 20 Feb 2013 13:40:46 +0000 tammytroot 101191@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>My commute includes a narrow, steep hill, with blind dips, on which I can easily do 3o without pedaling.<br /> It is an unusual day if I do not experience an uneccessary and sometimes dangerous overtake. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9532#post-101095 Tue, 19 Feb 2013 19:44:04 +0000 crowriver 101095@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Yeah the situation in Holyrood Park is really out of hand. It's supposed to be a park, not an 40mph rat run for motorists!</p> <p>Oh and if they insist on keeping the road open at both ends, the speed limit needs to be 20mph all the way. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9532#post-101077 Tue, 19 Feb 2013 17:21:12 +0000 fimm 101077@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Ouf, Coxy, I like it, but I wouldn't have the nerve to do that myself...</p> <p>My colleage and I were commenting that we reckon we get more space out on the A71 in the dark. (My theory is that drivers really notice you: "Look at that mental cyclist, I wouldn't cycle out here in the dark, its so dangerous..." when you're covered with reflectors and flashing lights and can be seen a mile off). </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9532#post-101076 Tue, 19 Feb 2013 17:06:23 +0000 TSFDefender 101076@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>That's a situation Coxy! But I like your sense of humour!<br /> Drivers of motor vehicles often want to keep momentum up &amp; not think about safety of cyclists enough - so aim &amp; squeeze. More discilpline &amp; cycling infrastructure needed. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9532#post-101074 Tue, 19 Feb 2013 16:50:28 +0000 Coxy 101074@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Funnily enough - heading East on the road South of Arthurs Seat used to be the only section I'd 'comfortably' reach 30mph. Bearing in mind it's a 30mph limit, most cars go at 40mph - moreso than most other 30 roads I know.</p> <p>A Saab convertable tried to overtake me there once, without realising there was a line of cyclists doing the same speed. An oncoming car meant he pulled in right next to me but kindly didn't run me into the verge. I held onto his windscreen pillar to get a lift and said 'evening' to his wife and kids who were staring at me. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9532#post-101073 Tue, 19 Feb 2013 16:48:11 +0000 MeepMeep 101073@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Echoing the comments noting that if there's any form of gap ahead, speed limits on a road and the speed of the cyclist generally don't seem to matter to the majority of drivers. Nor does whether there's a queue of traffic at a standstill within ten metres either, come to think of it.</p> <p>I tend to find I cycle in my most assertive position when really pushing myself and drift towards the kerb when pootling: I don't notice much difference in the space I'm given but I don't cycle at a leisurely pace much to reliably say. I think many of the close passes (when not deliberate punishment passes) may possibly be attributable to drivers misjudging and/or underestimating the speed cyclists can lick along at? I know it's been discussed on here before.</p> <p>Slightly related: I found it quite interesting when cycling to Penicuik along the A703 last night c.19:00 that drivers gave me more space than I often get in town, even on the fringes of the city. All of the cars gave me at least a metre and there were no harebrained overtakes. Perhaps the very obvious speed differential and the dark conditions made more of a cognitive impact on drivers? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9532#post-101072 Tue, 19 Feb 2013 16:16:06 +0000 fimm 101072@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>On my 'long commute' (in MAWIL mode on my road bike) I come down the Lanark Road from Balerno. I probably do mid 20 mph down there, (assuming no headwind) and take a very assertive line partly due to parked cars and partly due to potholes. The speed limit there is 40 but I don't (thankfully) get many bad overtakes. </p> <p>The next section, from the junction just before the aqueduct past the Asda and along the Slateford Road to my turn-off I also take at a fair lick and in an assertive style. It tends to be busier and there are the odd examples of dodgy driving.</p> <p>I think it would be interesting to do all of this section on my Brompton as I wouldn't be so fast and I'd also "look slower". Unfortunately this would involve cycling the Brompton <em>up</em> the hill first...</p> <p>Probably the worst overtake I've had of this kind was going downhill in Holyrood park. I've also been overtaken at the very top of the Balerno hill (which is a spot where I can hit the speed limit if I put my mind to it). </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9532#post-101070 Tue, 19 Feb 2013 15:43:53 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 101070@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Absolutely Dave, but could you say, "<em>... nobody even tries to overtake</em>"</p> <p>Are we kless likely to be overtaken simply because, by going faster, you're caught up less often? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9532#post-101069 Tue, 19 Feb 2013 15:42:34 +0000 PS 101069@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I'm of a similar view to you, @WC. If I'm in a queue, then yes, going at 25-30mph is usually enough to prevent overtakes. However, if there is space in front of me then chances are the driver behind will go for the overtake.</p> <p>I think it tends to be a knee-jerk reaction, usually driven by a lack of self-confidence in the driver - they are concerned that the drivers behind them will be irked by their failure to overtake the cyclist, so they try to squeeze past even when there isn't a gap. Although that may be me putting a positive spin some pretty poor driving from some drivers who aren't your standard boy racer/arrogant BMW businessman stereotypes. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9532#post-101068 Tue, 19 Feb 2013 15:41:24 +0000 cb 101068@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>IME you are less likely to be overtaken, the faster you go although it certainly doesn't rule the possibility out. </p>