CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: TRAFFIC is to be banned from the north side of Princes Street

CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: TRAFFIC is to be banned from the north side of Princes Street http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: TRAFFIC is to be banned from the north side of Princes Street en Sun, 17 May 2026 13:48:49 +0000 PS on "TRAFFIC is to be banned from the north side of Princes Street" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9679&page=12#post-129918 Thu, 24 Oct 2013 15:25:37 +0000 PS 129918@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Have to say, I like the Sustrans plan. I don't suppose anyone knows what reaction (if any) it got from the Council? I can imagine what reaction it got from Lothian Buses, but I'd be inclined to ignore them given their blatant prioritisation of revenue-protection ahead of the best interests of the city... i on "TRAFFIC is to be banned from the north side of Princes Street" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9679&page=12#post-129915 Thu, 24 Oct 2013 14:57:26 +0000 i 129915@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ I am limited to the <a href="http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/info/20236/about_the_trams/1964/tram_documentation">tram maps</a>, unless I use detailed OS maps via my institution but I'm unsure if I am allowed to use them in this context. I'm still quite open to where we can put the bus routes. <a href="http://mccraw.co.uk/princes-st-to-be-rebuilt-without-cycle-provision/">This picture of George St</a> and general thoughts by <a href="http://www.sustrans.org.uk/sites/default/files/images/files/scotland/policy/Edinburgh-City-Centre-Bus-Tram-integration.pdf">Sustrans</a> are my inspiration. The question is do we want bus routes only on: 1. Queens St - Problematic for routes like 31. I like this best for a liveable city, no through route for Princes and George st. Tram can shuttle lazy people to the buses. (disabled can also bike or scooter) 2. George St - ruins George St 3. Princes St - Better for buses, but ruins P St and slows trams. Or split bus routes over: 4. Queens St & George St - North half of G St pedestrianised. 5. Queens St & Princes St - Better for buses but slows trams. 6. George St & Prince St - My least favourite option 7. Q, G & P St. Maybe OK with 1 way routes but ruins all streets a bit. Sharing bus routes over multiple routes could alleviate bus overcrowding and give resilience to the bus network. Cars are shunned to Queens St. Anyone want to play on <a href="http://streetmix.net/">Street mix</a>? George St was 25-30m wide when I last measured it. PS on "TRAFFIC is to be banned from the north side of Princes Street" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9679&page=12#post-129906 Thu, 24 Oct 2013 13:36:16 +0000 PS 129906@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ @WC i's designs just cover Princes Street. For the record, I also want to see George St calmified/peopleified/pleasantified, not busified. PS on "TRAFFIC is to be banned from the north side of Princes Street" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9679&page=12#post-129900 Thu, 24 Oct 2013 13:27:17 +0000 PS 129900@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Good luck with that then! ;o) I take it there is no room for a two-way segregated bike lane on Princes Street if we assume the Council's revised "vision" is put in place (ie, there will be buses using it)? Wilmington's Cow on "TRAFFIC is to be banned from the north side of Princes Street" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9679&page=12#post-129899 Thu, 24 Oct 2013 13:26:58 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 129899@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ "The buses can go on George st and on Queens st" Boo! Bang goes the lovely, quiet, haven. I can't access the designs. Have you retained the segregated cycle facilities on George Street? i on "TRAFFIC is to be banned from the north side of Princes Street" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9679&page=12#post-129893 Thu, 24 Oct 2013 13:02:58 +0000 i 129893@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ There is only trams on this Princes street, The buses can go on George st and on Queens st. There is space for a east to west route bus and taxis but that would contribute to noise and air pollution. Princes St is such an asset that it really deserves a nice environment for locals and tourist to walk about and have public events on. The cycle specific traffic light phase could be all directions green or the normal Dutch kind. PS on "TRAFFIC is to be banned from the north side of Princes Street" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9679&page=12#post-129877 Thu, 24 Oct 2013 11:55:28 +0000 PS 129877@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Good suggestion, i. And the fully segregated solution answers the point I made about the Waverley Bridge pinch point in <a href="http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11434#post-129840">this thread</a>. I would hope that the dedicated infrastructure would lead to cyclists observing cyclist-specific signals at that corner where the tram crosses the carriageway given there is no need (beyond impatience) to ignore the signals. What's your approach to bus stops on the north side of Princes Street? Is there two lanes of traffic or one lane with lay-bys for bus stops? (I can't tell on my monitor) i on "TRAFFIC is to be banned from the north side of Princes Street" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9679&page=12#post-129867 Thu, 24 Oct 2013 11:19:44 +0000 i 129867@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ I've uploaded a rough idea of where bike paths could go using the Tram line maps. I thought it would be good to get some thoughts before I pave it and send it to CEC. <a href="http://i.imgur.com/YbRdHOe.jpg" rel="nofollow">http://i.imgur.com/YbRdHOe.jpg</a> <a href="http://i.imgur.com/oSwyRAk.jpg" rel="nofollow">http://i.imgur.com/oSwyRAk.jpg</a> The squeeze point at the Scottish National Gallery and the tramlines force the bike path to be on the north side of the trams. That could have been an even larger pedestrian area. steveo on "TRAFFIC is to be banned from the north side of Princes Street" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9679&page=12#post-129694 Wed, 23 Oct 2013 13:25:22 +0000 steveo 129694@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Seems like a fair compromise. Morningsider on "TRAFFIC is to be banned from the north side of Princes Street" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9679&page=12#post-129686 Wed, 23 Oct 2013 12:50:57 +0000 Morningsider 129686@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Full report here: <a href="http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/download/meetings/id/41076/item_7_1-building_a_vision_for_the_city_centre" rel="nofollow">http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/download/meetings/id/41076/item_7_1-building_a_vision_for_the_city_centre</a> Summary: Princes Street - no change. George Street - one way traffic, two way cycle route, temporary extension of footway. World class, iconic etc... Wilmington's Cow on "TRAFFIC is to be banned from the north side of Princes Street" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9679&page=11#post-129672 Wed, 23 Oct 2013 12:18:49 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 129672@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Moon. Stick. I've made my views on this clear previously. chdot on "TRAFFIC is to be banned from the north side of Princes Street" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9679&page=11#post-129670 Wed, 23 Oct 2013 12:16:54 +0000 chdot 129670@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ " @SpokesLothian: #PrincesStreet #cycling - no ban but no improvement. #GeorgeStreet #cycleroute. <a href="http://t.co/q8q3jRP48E" rel="nofollow">http://t.co/q8q3jRP48E</a> @CyclingEdin @CyclingSurgeon @edfoc " PS on "TRAFFIC is to be banned from the north side of Princes Street" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9679&page=11#post-129662 Wed, 23 Oct 2013 11:57:16 +0000 PS 129662@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Well, I like the fact that there'll be a proper two way cycle lane (as long as it is wide enough) and that all those buses won't be routed up George Street, but does all this mean no change on Princes Street? It may make Thistle Street a bit of a rat run for drivers who didn't find a space on the first pass. Wilmington's Cow on "TRAFFIC is to be banned from the north side of Princes Street" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9679&page=11#post-129659 Wed, 23 Oct 2013 11:54:37 +0000 Wilmington's Cow 129659@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ "Why should cyclists, about 3% of road users, get a whole side of George St to themselves? This layout will mean gridlock on one side with the other side completely empty. " Well, Mr EEN Commenter, because it might encourage more people to use their bike, taking them out of that gridlock, and make the city centre a more pleasant place... But we don't want things to be nice do we, then we'd have nothing to whinge about. kaputnik on "TRAFFIC is to be banned from the north side of Princes Street" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9679&page=11#post-129652 Wed, 23 Oct 2013 11:39:31 +0000 kaputnik 129652@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ More I think of it, more I like the idea of George Street as the main E-W cycling corridor. So long as it's done properly - what's the chances of that? And yes it needs connected "properly" at either end as well, not just an isolated superhighway that throws you back into the blender at either end. chdot on "TRAFFIC is to be banned from the north side of Princes Street" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9679&page=11#post-129651 Wed, 23 Oct 2013 11:38:23 +0000 chdot 129651@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Of course... SRD on "TRAFFIC is to be banned from the north side of Princes Street" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9679&page=11#post-129649 Wed, 23 Oct 2013 11:35:03 +0000 SRD 129649@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ but have they given any thought to either end of George Street? chdot on "TRAFFIC is to be banned from the north side of Princes Street" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9679&page=11#post-129647 Wed, 23 Oct 2013 11:31:50 +0000 chdot 129647@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ " Instead a revised scheme, to be introduced to coincide with the launch of the tram route, will see George Street become one-way for motorists with a lane dedicated to vehicles travelling west to east and a two-way cycle lane on the other side of the street. Parking will be retained up the middle of the road. Pavements on the northern side of the street will be widened from North Charlotte Street to Frederick Street, while south side pavements will get the same treatment from Frederick Street to St Andrew Square, meaning large venues like The Dome and the Assembly Rooms will be able to offer outdoor seating. " I'm sure CEC knows what it's doing. SRD on "TRAFFIC is to be banned from the north side of Princes Street" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9679&page=11#post-129645 Wed, 23 Oct 2013 11:27:00 +0000 SRD 129645@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ "City transport convener Lesley Hinds hoped the proposed arrangements would encourage cyclists to use George Street rather than the busier Princes Street" <a href="http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/transport/princes-street-snubbed-in-one-way-traffic-plan-1-3152436" rel="nofollow">http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/transport/princes-street-snubbed-in-one-way-traffic-plan-1-3152436</a> chdot on "TRAFFIC is to be banned from the north side of Princes Street" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9679&page=11#post-120529 Sat, 03 Aug 2013 14:38:27 +0000 chdot 120529@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/chdot/9426689967/"><img src="http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2841/9426689967_5f332b6a4e.jpg"></a> <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/chdot/9426689967/">Cycling on Princes Street</a> Bus just taken 20 minutes (on bus) This is one reason - <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/chdot/9429500076/"><img src="http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5321/9429500076_1cc5be6395.jpg"></a> <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/chdot/9429500076/">Princes Street pinch point</a> DdF on "TRAFFIC is to be banned from the north side of Princes Street" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9679&page=11#post-114612 Sun, 16 Jun 2013 20:57:01 +0000 DdF 114612@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ "Both Lesley Hinds and Jim Orr were at talk last night" as commented on in new <a href="http://www.spokes.org.uk/wordpress/2013/06/princes-street-fight-is-on/">Spokes Princes Street article</a>. LaidBack on "TRAFFIC is to be banned from the north side of Princes Street" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9679&page=11#post-114562 Sun, 16 Jun 2013 12:53:05 +0000 LaidBack 114562@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Both Lesley Hinds and Jim Orr were at talk last night (along with DdF, Ian Maxwell and many others). Monumental Motion exhibition is on at Hub now and MCA is jetting home. LaidBack on "TRAFFIC is to be banned from the north side of Princes Street" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9679&page=11#post-114547 Sun, 16 Jun 2013 00:29:37 +0000 LaidBack 114547@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Mikael Colville-Andersen obviously pro cycling on Princes St in the Q+A. That plus 20mph limits more widely in town. He says look to Dublin for inspiration. Lesley Hinds says she's listening. chdot on "TRAFFIC is to be banned from the north side of Princes Street" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9679&page=11#post-114545 Sat, 15 Jun 2013 23:25:09 +0000 chdot 114545@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ " Boneshaker Magazine (@boneshakermag) 15/06/2013 18:35 'Bike lanes are good for business' & Citibike is good for NYC. Encouraging stuff from @yesmagazine <a href="http://www.yesmagazine.org/planet/how-bike-friendly-cities-beat-the-opposition-became-new-normal" rel="nofollow">http://www.yesmagazine.org/planet/how-bike-friendly-cities-beat-the-opposition-became-new-normal</a> " SRD on "TRAFFIC is to be banned from the north side of Princes Street" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9679&page=11#post-113698 Mon, 10 Jun 2013 22:35:10 +0000 SRD 113698@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ ""Further afield, in higher-cycling countries it’s assumed that you provide two-way cycling throughout the road network. Contraflow cycling should be a no-brainer: insisting cyclists travel in one direction only should be seen as being like insisting that pedestrians only walk in one direction where there are one-way streets." chdot on "TRAFFIC is to be banned from the north side of Princes Street" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9679&page=11#post-113693 Mon, 10 Jun 2013 22:18:17 +0000 chdot 113693@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ " Key points 1. Like two-way pedestrian flows, two-way cycle flows should be the default, whatever the restrictions on motor traffic. " <a href="http://rachelaldred.org/writing/thoughts/planning-for-cycling" rel="nofollow">http://rachelaldred.org/writing/thoughts/planning-for-cycling</a> chdot on "TRAFFIC is to be banned from the north side of Princes Street" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9679&page=11#post-113002 Tue, 04 Jun 2013 19:33:51 +0000 chdot 113002@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ " Adrian Davis (@Adrian4Davis) 04/06/2013 11:35 Waste of space: A car at 50 km/h occupies 150 m2 of public space. At 30 km/h - 20 m2. A pedestrian 1 m2. See <a href="http://www.eltis.org/index.php?mainID=&id=34&forum_id=&add_entry=153#entry153" rel="nofollow">http://www.eltis.org/index.php?mainID=&id=34&forum_id=&add_entry=153#entry153</a> 4 maths " steveo on "TRAFFIC is to be banned from the north side of Princes Street" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9679&page=11#post-112918 Tue, 04 Jun 2013 10:10:56 +0000 steveo 112918@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ Aannnyy way back towards topic. Good news then. The 12 month trial would never have worked with out semi permanent installations. I'm still not sure Princes Street is the best place for cyclists now (trams mainly) but at least the council are listening to the majority. steveo on "TRAFFIC is to be banned from the north side of Princes Street" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9679&page=11#post-112917 Tue, 04 Jun 2013 10:08:03 +0000 steveo 112917@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ I don't see how that makes any difference. All the vehicles in the photos are parked up, just imagine it's a traffic jam. Jeez man, you would start an argument in a empty room! Imagine their not stopped and that traffic is flowing; as a means of transporting bodies per meter they are more efficient. If each vehicle has double the space the space in front then the bus is twice as long. The stream of cycles is (at least) twice as long and given the parked up bus already has a smaller footprint the bus' advantage is magnified further. Space to the rear is irrelevant that is the guy behinds space in front. Now that suggests the riders are happy riding so close to each other laterally, should they want more space to the sides, which I would on a British road with riders not experienced in pack cycling they are very quickly going to go wider than the lane which means they go behind and the space required gets even longer but still about the same width. In a traffic jam yes a cycle is better (so is a car) but the original point was that if more people were out of their cars and into buses the roads would be less congested, traffic would flow better and less confident cyclists would be able to avoid the bus routes.... chdot on "TRAFFIC is to be banned from the north side of Princes Street" http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9679&page=11#post-112912 Tue, 04 Jun 2013 09:55:21 +0000 chdot 112912@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/chdot/8946560080/"><img src="http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2849/8946560080_cdf08e3b88.jpg"></a> <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/chdot/8946560080/">Princes Street cycling lobby</a>