http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Topic: dumb question en Fri, 01 May 2026 09:39:36 +0000 http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9857&page=2#post-219699 Thu, 12 May 2016 14:26:24 +0000 chdot 219699@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"This is why other small wheeled bikes, like Bromptons and Moultons and sundry recumbents, have big chainrings (and/or a hub gear) to gear up the back wheel a bit."</p> <p>Yes, though slightly different with very young riders.</p> <p>With bikes for under 5s there are good reasons for very low gears - stops them escaping from people walking!</p> <p>But the 20" bikes with 32T rear sprockets seem surprisingly undergeared, especially as they are more likely to be for riders who already cycle and have built up some cycling muscles.</p> <p>Low gears are important but at the extreme, if hills are steep walking is an option.</p> <p>Spinning out (because top is low) in a family group is a disincentive (for all). </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9857&page=2#post-219698 Thu, 12 May 2016 14:19:51 +0000 chdot 219698@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"and how often do people assume it 'must be slow' because it has small wheels?"</p> <p>Indeed! </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9857&page=2#post-219696 Thu, 12 May 2016 14:18:15 +0000 SRD 219696@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>and how often do people assume it 'must be slow' because it has small wheels? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9857&page=2#post-219664 Thu, 12 May 2016 12:35:56 +0000 Arellcat 219664@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>my theory is that most parents just chalk it up to wheel size and don't really think about the gear ratios.</em></p> <p>This is why other small wheeled bikes, like Bromptons and Moultons and sundry recumbents, have big chainrings (and/or a hub gear) to gear up the back wheel a bit. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9857&page=2#post-219646 Thu, 12 May 2016 10:51:53 +0000 chdot 219646@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"</p> <p>Before Islabikes, children had a raw deal when it came to bicycles. They were riding bikes that weighed half their body weight, struggling to reach the brakes, and generate enough power to use them even if they could. </p> <p>And then Isla Rowntree came along, found a gap in the market, built a successful business and made a lot of children very happy in the process. We caught up with her to find out how she did it, and ask her for advice on buying a child's bike...</p> <p>"</p> <p><a href="http://totalwomenscycling.com/longform/53445" rel="nofollow">http://totalwomenscycling.com/longform/53445</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9857&page=2#post-219376 Tue, 10 May 2016 09:58:50 +0000 wingpig 219376@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><blockquote><em>"look at the cassette and think 'that's a decent range'"</em></blockquote><br /> My though when inspecting the eldest's new bike was "that large sprocket's almost as big as the wheel". Seeing as he'll be moving up from a singlespeed I'll see what part of the range gets used before modifying. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9857&page=2#post-219370 Tue, 10 May 2016 09:39:40 +0000 SRD 219370@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@greenroofer dunno - seem to be lots of kids doing pedal for scotland and whatnot. my theory is that most parents just chalk it up to wheel size and don't really think about the gear ratios. or as chdot points out, look at the cassette and think 'that's a decent range'. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9857&page=2#post-219343 Mon, 09 May 2016 22:34:36 +0000 chdot 219343@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"the cassette would have a wider range"</p> <p>12-32 pretty wide.</p> <p>Problem was 32T front (on 20" wheels).</p> <p>Now swapped to 36. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9857&page=2#post-219336 Mon, 09 May 2016 21:58:20 +0000 Greenroofer 219336@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@SRD - Presumably the problem is that the kind of people who think it's reasonable for a 5yo to ride 20 miles are very few and far between, so it's not worth these companies offering the option you sensibly suggest in your second post. Most of their customers will never use the bikes that intensively, ride them that fast, or develop the muscles to power a bike with a higher top and bottom gear.</p> <p>Ideally, I think, the cassette would have a wider range, but presumably that makes it extremely non-standard and gets into the territory of needing special rear derailleurs.</p> <p>Mini-Greenroofer (aged 9 at the time) did the 20-mile hilly round trip route from <a href="https://www.google.co.uk/maps/dir/3+Blantyre+Terrace,+Glenelg,+Kyle+IV40+8JS,+UK/Arnisdale/@57.1733706,-5.6550547,10047m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m14!4m13!1m5!1m1!1s0x488e99b00a5ce609:0x73589ceda91c9cf5!2m2!1d-5.6216728!2d57.2126164!1m5!1m1!1s0x488ea32661ec27cf:0xa2a6a16cda919bc2!2m2!1d-5.566164!2d57.134398!3e1">Glenelg to Arnisdale</a> very successfully on a bike with a 'megarange' rear cassette that we'd hired in Glenelg. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9857&page=2#post-219333 Mon, 09 May 2016 21:27:59 +0000 SRD 219333@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>update: </p> <p>Our trip to the bike station was more successful than we first thought (why don't chainwheels just have their size stamped on them?)</p> <p><a href="http://deceasedcanine.blogspot.co.uk/2016/05/operation-souped-up-islabike-success.html" rel="nofollow">http://deceasedcanine.blogspot.co.uk/2016/05/operation-souped-up-islabike-success.html</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9857&page=2#post-219250 Mon, 09 May 2016 12:05:38 +0000 chdot 219250@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"I am now sure that I have a spotted her and 2 miniSRD's raking through the drawers at the Bike Station, no doubt looking for the illusive cogs and cranks referred to in her above blog"</p> <p>True </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9857&page=2#post-219245 Mon, 09 May 2016 11:47:09 +0000 condor2378 219245@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Having never officially met SRD in real life, I am now sure that I have a spotted her and 2 miniSRD's raking through the drawers at the Bike Station, no doubt looking for the illusive cogs and cranks referred to in her above blog. I was the guy (red long sleeve jersey, black shorts) waiting for the Silver Helmeted lady to finish at the bottom drawer so I could have a look at front mechs on the top. Next time I shall say hello, but I wasn't 100% sure. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9857&page=2#post-219236 Mon, 09 May 2016 11:04:32 +0000 paddyirish 219236@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>My eldest (now 7) got a Frog 52 for her 6th birthday - have been delighted by it - it's light, manoeuvreable (especially when she has to dismount) and teh smaller handlebars/brakes etc are great.</p> <p>TBH has gone well given the relatively lumpy terrain we cycle on. She is definitely maxed out on long flats where she is in top gear and spinning, but we don't have too many of those.</p> <p>She's due an upgrade in the summer will probably stick with Frog again.</p> <p>Child 2 aged 3 has had her first pedal bike out at the weekend- a Halfords special, much heavier than her elder sister's bike and will be much trickier to manoeuvre when she gets off. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9857&page=2#post-219194 Sun, 08 May 2016 21:07:06 +0000 SRD 219194@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Revisiting an old topic with child number 2.</p> <p><a href="http://deceasedcanine.blogspot.co.uk/2016/05/how-to-choose-kids-bikeor-why-its-not.html" rel="nofollow">http://deceasedcanine.blogspot.co.uk/2016/05/how-to-choose-kids-bikeor-why-its-not.html</a></p> <p>Update on the souped up islabike coming soon. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9857&page=2#post-107380 Wed, 10 Apr 2013 18:46:16 +0000 wee folding bike 107380@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>There was no alternative as everybody was sold out of the 13/16. If the right set comes in stock I can swap back and keep the 12/16 combo for my SuperLight. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9857&page=2#post-107370 Wed, 10 Apr 2013 15:21:58 +0000 Roibeard 107370@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@wfb - I've got the 12/16 sprockets on my BWR 6 speed.</p> <p>It works, but I'll be swapping to 13/16 when possible.</p> <p>You're correct in that the spacing isn't even (and the top speed increases) - I find that dropping down in particular is problematic as the drop is too much from some gears, leading to some dramatic increases in cadence, a drop in road speed, or a sigh and a change back up to stomp for a bit...</p> <p>Robert </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9857&page=2#post-106886 Thu, 04 Apr 2013 19:42:01 +0000 Uberuce 106886@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@Arellcat - Yes, but cgo is easier to spell, so I'm sticking with it.</p> <p>@SRD - I think it's a little from column A and a little from column B. For the mass/resistance reasons Dave and I mentioned she's having to pedal even when more massive and/or less befrictioned bike+rider systems do not, but since her gearing is too low for the speeds at which she is evidentally comfortable, she's having to spin like nuts just to add a teensy pressure to the pedal and top up the momentum that her shoecover level of mass cannot supply. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9857&page=2#post-106884 Thu, 04 Apr 2013 19:28:35 +0000 wee folding bike 106884@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>I think sprocket can also mean the teeth which engage with something like a chain. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9857&page=2#post-106883 Thu, 04 Apr 2013 19:27:47 +0000 chdot 106883@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/chdot/8616101719/"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8527/8616101719_1708b2ef78.jpg"></a><br /> <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/chdot/8616101719/">Roll with it</a> </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9857#post-106882 Thu, 04 Apr 2013 19:20:06 +0000 LaidBack 106882@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>The Islabike has (as pointed out) a tiny big ring so to replicate her gearing you would probably be in gear 4 or 5 on the Helios (yours has Alfine so tricky to compare directly).</p> <p><em>Bring the Islabike round to shop! We have rollers now so you can see how her bike compares with a multigeared ICE trike with 20" wheel.<br /> </em></p> <p>Also.... Other thing we have done at school sessions was have a roll down event. Line up all the bikes on playground with slight slope and let each person roll on bike till it stopped. No pedalling. K's lesser mass would mean that she wouldn't go as far whatever bike she chose. Like a version of the Innocent Tunnel roll down. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9857#post-106878 Thu, 04 Apr 2013 19:02:26 +0000 Arellcat 106878@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p><em>&lt;pet_peev&gt; If it's chain driven it's a sprocket, not a cog. &lt;/pet_peev&gt;</em></p> <p>'Cog' is synonymous and engineeringly interchangeable with 'tooth'.</p> <p>However, the compound word <em>cog-wheel</em> entered the English language only about 200 years later in about 1420, and it took another 400 years for 'cog-wheel' to be considered comprising teeth rather than cogs. So when fervent bicyclists talk about the size of their cog, or being 'on the cog' or whatevever, it's probably only the vernacular.</p> <p>Weefolding is however completely correct about sprocket being associated with a chain drive, or anything analogous such as the holes in a roll of film. That word didn't appear until the mid-18th century. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9857#post-106877 Thu, 04 Apr 2013 18:52:35 +0000 SRD 106877@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>nope. not that fast. essentially our speed was limited by hers, and what struck me was that she was pedaling a lot more than we were. We felt that we were 'going slow' and here she was pedaling frantically. which is what led me to start this thread. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9857#post-106876 Thu, 04 Apr 2013 18:29:55 +0000 Uberuce 106876@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Did you happen to note the speed you were going at, SRD? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9857#post-106872 Thu, 04 Apr 2013 17:46:02 +0000 wee folding bike 106872@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>App doesn't appear to deal with hub gears. There is one for Bromptons here:</p> <p><a href="http://xldev.co.uk/bgc.html" rel="nofollow">http://xldev.co.uk/bgc.html</a></p> <p>It takes account of hub gearing</p> <p>Nobody seems to have the 13/16 sprockets for the Brompton 6 speed at the moment so I'm about to fit a 12/16 combo on one of my 6 speeds. This is actually the set for the 2 speed. It will raise the gearing by about 8% on the smaller sprocket. Top gear will now be 108" and the jumps will not be quite as even as they should be.</p> <p>&lt;pet_peev&gt; If it's chain driven it's a sprocket, not a cog. &lt;/pet_peev&gt; </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9857#post-106865 Thu, 04 Apr 2013 17:09:06 +0000 sallyhinch 106865@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>@chdot - can confirm that there's still a feeling among kids (sample size = 1, but another girl a bit older than miniSRD) that the higher a gear you can manage the better a cyclist you are. So maybe keeping the gears low is a good thing.</p> <p>I suppose the main consideration would be whether she's finding it hard work keeping up, and isn't enjoying the ride so much as if she was turning a slightly bigger gear </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9857#post-106826 Thu, 04 Apr 2013 13:47:49 +0000 chdot 106826@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"She could become an ace track sprinter"</p> <p>But she'd have to move to Glasgow...</p> <p>How about a velodrome in Harrison Park? </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9857#post-106820 Thu, 04 Apr 2013 13:31:27 +0000 PS 106820@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>She will, however, be able to develop a fast 'n smooth spinning style, which will count in her favour when she moves on to larger, higher geared bikes. :-) She could become an ace track sprinter. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9857#post-106819 Thu, 04 Apr 2013 12:47:48 +0000 Uberuce 106819@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>Ahhh. If chdot's link is the same bike, then she's on 18-49" of gear, which is teensy by adult standards and evidently too low for her. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9857#post-106812 Thu, 04 Apr 2013 12:00:56 +0000 chdot 106812@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"limits on gearing for youth track cyclists"</p> <p>Is it just track now? Pretty sure used to be road too. </p> <p>"And rightly so, as teenage knees have their limits"</p> <p>And adults...</p> <p>When I was a kid there was a certain macho 'necessity' to ride in top gear as much as possible. </p> <p>But then a normal chainset was 52/49!</p> <p>Californian mountains changed the world. </p> http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=9857#post-106809 Thu, 04 Apr 2013 11:41:38 +0000 remberbuck 106809@http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/ <p>"I'm sure I remember something about tall gears being bad for younger people, as it encourages weird muscular/skeletal development?"</p> <p>Quite right - there are pedantically enforced upper limits on gearing for youth track cyclists. And rightly so, as teenage knees have their limits.</p> <p>(Slightly OT but there is a similar danger in fitting young feet into clipless pedals too soon). </p>