CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure

St James Redevelopment

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  1. Frenchy
    Member

    Are they seriously proposing placing two orphaned cycle lanes in the middle of that huge gyratory?

    That'd be bloody weird, so I'm hoping those are just empty space which has been coloured the same colour as the bike routes for some unfathomable reason.

    I can't figure out what the large bit of tar enclosed by the black and white lines on the north side of the gyratory is for, either.

    EDIT: On a second look, the orphaned bike lanes could be useful for contraflowing. For example, going from Leith Walk to York Place.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  2. neddie
    Member

    I like how in the other visualisation, they've covered the pavements in pedestrians & cyclists to make it look like a people-orientated development (it's not), whereas the 3-lane gyratory shows only one or two cars and not 3 lanes of stationary traffic in all directions and all belching fumes...

    Posted 6 years ago #
  3. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    @nedd1e_h

    Most amusing spot.

    It looks like it might be very unpleasant to cycle on heading north. Can't see me using the advanced stop zone thing in lane 3 if heading down Leith Walk, no siree.

    This is late sixties stuff with a pink stripe on it.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  4. dougal
    Member

    Well, one for the psychology students. Does pasting in uncanny valley "people" make your rendering harder to critique as a real world design?

    Posted 6 years ago #
  5. rust
    Member

    Posted 6 years ago #
  6. Frenchy
    Member

    It looks like it might be very unpleasant to cycle on heading north. Can't see me using the advanced stop zone thing in lane 3 if heading down Leith Walk, no siree.

    Heading down Leith Walk at least there's a segregated path (on the wrong side of the road).

    I can't figure out how I'm supposed to get from North Bridge to Broughton Street.

    @rust - Yes!

    Posted 6 years ago #
  7. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    @rust

    Nice work, but can some of them not park on the in the cycle lanes and the derelict land in the centre of the gyratory?

    @Frenchy

    Ah, that's two-way outside the Omni Centre is it?

    Posted 6 years ago #
  8. Frenchy
    Member

    Ah, that's two-way outside the Omni Centre is it?

    I'm assuming so. I probably shouldn't assume that, should I?

    Posted 6 years ago #
  9. neddie
    Member

    @rust

    Good effort.

    But you forgot to include vehicles "at all angles" blocking the junctions, some double parked vans and pizza mobiles and a few pavement parkers as well.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  10. I were right about that saddle
    Member

    I probably shouldn't assume that, should I?

    It's odd that these things have been funded but no plans seem to be available.

    If it's two-way there must be some pretty fancy footwork elsewhere.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  11. Murun Buchstansangur
    Member

    Unless there's going to be a massive reprofiling of the pavement levels outside the Baillie Gifford building on Leith St and associated moving of fire exits etc, there's not going to be room for that floating bus stop (or perhaps more accurately, there won't be room for a segregated lane). That bus stop is one of the most oversubscribed in Edinburgh in the mornings.

    Let's face it, this is yet more car centric nonsense. I'm not sure why I'm even surprised any more.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  12. wingpig
    Member

    There's also an implicit assumption that "Future development site - use not confirmed" won't need any vehicular access/egress, nor a large section of footway for taxis and deliverypeople to wait at, nor room for a person in a costume and hat to stand whilst waiting to open taxi doors for people, unless that's all within the large section of blank tarmac to the north of the mystery triangle.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  13. Murun Buchstansangur
    Member

    @wingpig Said blank tarmac is earmarked for the trams, no?

    It's all about as far away from the Sustrans vision as it's possible to get.

    https://www.scribd.com/document/231852266/Ideas-for-Picardy-Place-SUSTRANS

    Posted 6 years ago #
  14. chdot
    Admin

  15. crowriver
    Member

    @rust, good one, but you forgot:

    - large queues of LB buses
    - Tipper lorries, concrete mixers, and artics taking "essential" deliveries to Rose Street
    - Tourist coaches illegally parked fully on the northern "pavement" outside that bloody hotel (they are literally there EVERY day).
    - Numpty single occupant vehicles blocking all the signalled junctions because they "just squeezed through" on amber/red.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  16. chdot
    Admin

    "

    Broughton Spurtle (@theSpurtle)
    19/09/2017, 11:07 pm
    @allytibbitt @SpokesLothian @116McD @CyclingEdin PR does not make clear whether we're being consulted or told. Suspect told, given huge commecial levers. Urgent need for public to respond.

    "

    In view of the SG's new found interest in ActiveTravel they might like to revisit this. They are largely responsible for engineering this situation - and subsidising the developers.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  17. fimm
    Member

    Am I the only person who cannot see whatever it was that rust posted?

    Posted 6 years ago #
  18. HankChief
    Member

    I tweeted it if that's easier to see.

    Rust has added extra cars onto the design to add realism. Looks like a traffic jam now.

    https://twitter.com/hank_chief/status/910384721829466112

    Posted 6 years ago #
  19. fimm
    Member

    Ah, yes, thank you HankChief.
    Much more realistic. But I agree, it still needs more busses, lorries, illegal parking, etc, etc.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  20. wingpig
    Member

    Perhaps the Paolozzis and the Sherlock Holmes statue could be used as bollards to stop coaches getting into the footway.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  21. Stickman
    Member

    There is a certain irony that the plans will be on show in Multrees Walk, which bans bikes.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  22. wingpig
    Member

    It's a bit beware of the leopard - in the city centre beside the disruption at the weekend on doors open day, when people who would be travelling through it on a normal weekday (and wish to improve their experience of so doing) might be otherwise occupied.

    My initial thought was that they'd just applied a bit of Mesh Warp to the existing roundabout and added some stop lanes, but they could be drawing inspiration from elsewhere and adding pink bits.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  23. PS
    Member

    Observing the forum rules, I have to say that design is ****ing ****.

    It's entirely wrong for the site, entirely wrong for the direction the city claims it is heading in, and, on top of all that, just plain ugly. What a grand gateway to the city centre for anyone arriving from the South East.

    The bus stops and tram stops do not have enough room for the current passenger demand, let alone the council's expectations of future growth. The lack of space for the bus stops etc, will cause a lot of bike/ped conflict.

    Sticking the tram stop in the middle of the gyratory will simply cause frustration and possibly accidents as people have to cross three lanes of traffic to get to their tram.

    Three lanes is presumably there to bunch as much traffic together to give drivers the illusion of progress? Let's be honest, the lanes will likely be backed up by buses pulled into bus stops and car drivers behind them then trying to change lanes in their usual chaotic fashion.

    A total waste of space and waste of what could be an impressive public plaza (imagine a square with a cathedral, major theatre, cinema, hotels and shopping centre on in any other European city...).

    To get to some specific cycle points, and a major concern: I cannot see how I would cycle from Broughton Street to the Bridges, which is my most used route through this junction. If I'm supposed to follow the gyratory system then I can see we're going to have to sweep right over the tramlines, which will lead to falls in the middle of a much busier junction than Lothian Road/Princes Street (where we've seen the tragic consequences of bad/criminal design). THIS NEEDS TO BE FLAGGED AND SORTED.

    I'm away this weekend so can't give them a piece of my mind. Hopefully plenty of other folk can wade in for me.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  24. Min
    Member

    Don't worry everyone, although it may look to thee and me like a giant altar to carmageddon, according to the council leaders report email:-

    "In many ways, the bridge and the current road layout are relics of a different age when the car was king. The new design, part of the wider St James Quarter development, will return the street to a bustling retail area, far more suited to all types of road user, however they may be travelling."

    Yes, that is always how I think of multiple car lanes with added tram lines. Very suitable for non car users.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  25. Min
    Member

    I meant to add that the "cyclists dismount" signs seem to have vanished from the south entrance now. At least that is a slight improvement since I couldn't see any reason for having one other than as a way to castigate cyclists for being lawbreakers if they ignored the stupid pointless thing. A "give way to pedestrians" sign would be fine.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  26. Frenchy
    Member

    I can't go to the exhibition - who is the best person to direct polite but angry emails to?

    Posted 6 years ago #
  27. dessert rat
    Member

    "a different age when the car was king"

    there was a time when it was worse ?

    Posted 6 years ago #
  28. neddie
    Member

    @IainMcR

    there was a time when it was worse?

    Nope, I don't think it's ever been worse than today. So many people owning cars.

    The car was seen as king in the 60s when relatively few people owned them, so that those who were lucky enough to own one could do what they wanted with it.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  29. chdot
    Admin

    "so that those who were lucky enough to own one could do what they wanted with it."

    And they still do.

    And have been joined by a lot of people following their example.

    Posted 6 years ago #
  30. wingpig
    Member

    Should be able to make the Friday 4pm-7pm slot.
    Might print out a couple of photos of the memorial assemblage for Zhi Min Soh to Blu-Tac onto the plans, perhaps at the corners of the mystery triangle.

    Posted 6 years ago #

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