CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » General Edinburgh

"Holiday Flats Edinburgh's Ruin"

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  1. Nelly
    Member

    I think dealing with any anti social behaviour makes a lot of sense, however if its pushed to the council, will they be able to cope with more licencing?

    At the moment, long term landlords need to be registered, but its not an onerous process even for an amateur, nor is there any real quality check on the property to be let.

    Yes, there are regulations for Gas / Fire alarms etc, but I would guess that the chances of getting caught are close to zero.

    I do also think the news outlets need to present their data in a slightly different way - up my way, there are many rental flats in Marchmont, usually let to students in term time, but which I assume people may punt as festival lets over the summer.

    This is something which (I imagine?) has happened for many a year, but which is getting a bit more publicity now due to the rise of airbnb.

    The bigger issue is outside summer months and party flats which are permanently on airbnb.

    Again, while the X number of days limit sounds ok as a soundbite, I struggle to see how the council will cope with this and unscrupulous operators will always find a way round.

    n.b. I used airbnb as a guest for the first time last week, a couple of days in Warkworth - some holiday cottage rental companies only accept full weeks which is prohibitively expensive - with airbnb we could get the 2 nights we wanted, it was pretty reasonable and high quality too.

    I can see the attraction.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  2. crowriver
    Member

    Just out of interest, while walking to the shop yesterday did a quick count of keysafes installed in tenement doorways on my street in Abbeyhill. Counted 20 in total, that's up from around 8 last year if I recall. Presume most are AirBnBs rather than elderly/disabled requiring health visitor or home help.....indeed I saw a tourist with smartphone out checking code for a keysafe just a few doors down from our stair. One stair had four keysafes installed.

    Our stair has nine flats, but some further along have twelve or more per stair. Still, four AirBnBs is still 1/3 of a twelve flat stair...

    Posted 5 years ago #
  3. Rosie
    Member

    @crowriver - I'll repeat a story I had from my own airbnb guests. The year before they'd booked somewhere in Fountainbridge. On every door was a notice saying, "We don't do airbnb."

    Posted 5 years ago #
  4. Rosie
    Member

    In Bella Caledonia:-

    The image of Edinburgh’s central park – Princes Street Gardens – blacked out and blocked off – has acted as a trigger for many people concerned with the phenomenon known globally as “over-tourism” – where a place becomes so saturated with visitors that it undermines the very nature of the place itself. Over-tourism alienates and excludes local people and changes the physical infrastructure of the city. This has been seen in Edinburgh for a long time but is now reaching a crescendo. A threshold has been reached which has been catapulted forward by a convergence of issues about gentrification, development, planning and a housing crisis all of which seem to ask the same question: who does the city belong to?

    https://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2018/08/11/artwash-over-tourism-and-edinburgh/

    Posted 5 years ago #
  5. Rosie
    Member

    Adam McVey has called for the barrier in front of Princes St Gardens to be taken down.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  6. ejstubbs
    Member

    Interesting statement in that article:

    "It’s well-known within local promoters and venues that the festival actually undermines the year-round cultural scene"

    I've been complaining about this for years. For a city of its size and importance (the capital of its country, for one thing) the cultural life of Edinburgh is pretty low-grade for most of the year. Then in August the cultural heart of London relocates up here, trailing behind it a mob who mainly seem to want to see 'comedians' most of whom can be seen on TV throughout the year anyway. The massive spike in the potential audience pool makes it a challenge for local people to get to see many of the better shows (a fair few of which aren't Edinburgh originals, so have a ready-primed customer base eager and waiting to click on the "book now" button as soon as the online box office opens.)

    I'm not saying that there's nothing to see in Edinburgh outside of the Festival & Fringe, but I do find that things worth going out of my way to go and see during the other eleven months of the year seem to be fairly few and far between.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  7. crowriver
    Member

    @ejstubbs, I don't think that's really true. Edinburgh's offerings in visual arts exhibitions and theatre shows are really pretty good for most of the year round. Classical music and musical theatre well catered for too. There's spoken word and folk music sessions to be had also. Maybe not quite up there for rock and pop gigs with the likes of Glasgow or Manchester but that's not a huge issue. Yes the arts venues up their game during August but it's certainly not impossible to get tickets for the good stuff during the festival. If you want them for a reasonable price though you may have to book in April...

    On the other hand the colonisation of public parks, streets and squares by commercial mega promoters during the festival is completely out of hand and needs a major re-think by the city.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  8. gembo
    Member

    Is Paris still deserted in August due to the locals all going on holiday?

    I hear the move to open sports centres on Sunday's on Lewis has been defeated

    Posted 5 years ago #
  9. ejstubbs
    Member

    @Rosie: Adam McVey has called for the barrier in front of Princes St Gardens to be taken down.

    According to this BBC article, they now have been. It's dated yesterday, but when I was on Princes Street yesterday lunchtime there was still a solid line of black boards stretching from the gate by the Thomas Guthrie statue eastwards at least as far as the tram stop. I was planning to go back and have another look today but the weather at lunchtime is forecast to be far from clement.

    I did notice that the boards seem to be fixed to the railings with nothing more than black cable ties, so a bit of guerrilla action armed with a pair of side cutters could probably be quite effective. There would still be Fringe billboards fixed to the railings, but at least you can see between those, they're not designed deliberately to block the view.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  10. fimm
    Member

    Photos on twitter (and elswhere?) show they are down.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  11. Murun Buchstansangur
    Member

    Sigh

    "Princes Street barriers removed - but pavement closes to stop free view"

    https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/entertainment/princes-street-barriers-removed-but-pavement-closes-to-stop-free-view-1-4783466

    Posted 5 years ago #
  12. steveo
    Member

    I can see why they need to close either the pavement or the road to stop folk congregating and watching the concert, they will, and they will cause congestion. Close the road to allow for it or close the pavement to try and prevent it.

    However all of the above, plus effective closing of the gardens does suggest this isn't an appropriate venue for "big" acts demanding ticketing.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  13. crowriver
    Member

    Yes, this latest outrage is proof, if any were needed, that the mega concerts in the gardens have gone too far. It's ridiculous that the city council are bending over to please these money grubbing promoters. If they want to keep the public from sneaking a view, they should hold the gigs in a building (e.g. Corn Exchange) or a stadium. The answer is not to turn Princes Street into a security guard policed area like a mini-Glasto or T In The Park.

    Time to raise a petition to ban large rock and pop concerts from the gardens methinks.

    Or you can make your views known in the consultation:

    https://consultationhub.edinburgh.gov.uk/bi/west-princes-street-gardens-project/

    Posted 5 years ago #
  14. crowriver
    Member

    There will be no ‘sledgehammer’ on Airbnb promises Council leader

    https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/our-region/edinburgh/there-will-be-no-sledgehammer-on-airbnb-promises-council-leader-1-4782996

    Posted 5 years ago #
  15. ejstubbs
    Member

    @Murun Buchstansang: "Princes Street barriers removed - but pavement closes to stop free view"

    Apparently bus stop PU, that is mentioned in that article as having to be closed, eventually wasn't: https://twitter.com/on_lothianbuses/status/1029339195041636356

    Agree with crowriver that these takeovers of Princes Street Gardens are getting out of hand. It's gone too far when walking routes through the west gardens are being blocked off for days at a time to suit the whims of concert promoters. Some time last year I found the path/access road that runs on the south side of railway completely closed to all but "authorised vehicles", with a medium-sized commercial encampment occupying the space. You couldn't get through on the lower path on the north side other. I had to backtrack to the Mound and use the - predictably more busy than usual - upper path on the north side to complete my E-W journey. This was in the middle of the day, with nothing going on at the bandstand itself.

    I haven't been that way at the relevant time for a fair few years now but I don't recall the restrictions being anything like as severe for the End of Festival fireworks concert. But perhaps that's because an orchestra isn't as much of a "spectacle" as a popular music combo. (That said - and without casting aspersions on his ability to interpret a song vocally - Rag'n'Bone Man isn't exactly a visually entertaining performer.)

    Posted 5 years ago #
  16. Rosie
    Member

    @crowriver - Live music in Edinburgh is constantly thwarted by people who move to a flat above a pub complaining about music in the pub i.e. that a pub is a place for entertainment (a generally known fact). Venues keep closing as well. The Playhouse was the latest, I think.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  17. ejstubbs
    Member

  18. crowriver
    Member

    "Live music in Edinburgh is constantly thwarted by people who move to a flat above a pub complaining about music in the pub"

    That's a different issue from public gardens being effectively privatised for weeks at a time.

    "Venues keep closing as well."

    Again, a different issue. Licensing boards, audiences declining, owners selling up, etc. are all in the mix.

    Playhouse still very much in business last time I checked. Also "new" venue Leith Theatre being brought back into use more regularly.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  19. crowriver
    Member

    From the EEN article linked to above:

    "Ms Golden now needs to raise £112,000 to pay to have her appeal heard by the Court of Session in Edinburgh."

    I see she's stated a CrowdJustice page. So, not only is she annoying her neighbours by running an AirBnB, she expects others to cough up to pay her legal costs to challenge her refused planning appeal. The word "total chancer" springs to mind...

    (Appropriate then that her property is at Chancelot Terrace).

    Posted 5 years ago #
  20. Morningsider
    Member

    Rosie - a problem that is being tackled through something known as the "agent of change principle" - which is being introduced in the current review of the Scottish planning system. In effect, build new flats next to an existing music venue and the onus on providing sound insulation lies with the developer and not the music venue.

    Not quite so clear how it affects existing flats near existing venues.

    More: https://beta.gov.scot/publications/agent-of-change-chief-planner-letter/

    Posted 5 years ago #
  21. crowriver
    Member

    Best reader comment so far on that EEN article:

    ---

    Funny how the EN forgot to include the fact that Ms Golden lives over 5000 miles away in the USA and her only supporters are an organisation that's made up of folk who want to make money out of renting out properties.

    And...it's nice to hear that she's proud to be bringing "culture, diversity, wealth and life" into the city..............................so it's not JUST about the money, eh?

    ---

    Posted 5 years ago #
  22. Rosie
    Member

    Aaargh - not the Playhouse! I meant the old Caley cinema at the bottom of Lothian Road. Was Revolution once, then the Picturehouse, now a Wetherspoons. Saw a few gigs there.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  23. chdot
    Admin

    “Aaargh - not the Playhouse! I meant the old Caley cinema”

    That makes more sense!

    “Saw a few gigs there.”

    Ditto.

    Posted 5 years ago #
  24. crowriver
    Member

    "Was Revolution once"

    Before that, I think "Century 2000"? They did host the odd gig in those days, but it was mainly a dodgy nightclub for the white stillettos, dance round handbags brigade, plus associated male hangers-on who had a habit of glassing each other on Lothian Road after hours.....if I recall correctly!

    Posted 5 years ago #
  25. gembo
    Member

    Mott The Hoople played there in the 1970s I think

    Posted 5 years ago #
  26. chdot
    Admin

  27. chdot
    Admin

  28. chdot
    Admin

    Despite the retrospective application being recommended for approval by council officers, the development management sub-committee unanimously threw out the plans yesterday – meaning an ongoing enforcement investigation will continue.

    After planning officers said the arrangement “does not have an adverse impact on amenity to neighbouring properties”, the committee heard from residents who spoke out about the problems endured.

    https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/knickers-left-on-the-roof-are-final-straw-as-edinburgh-party-flats-are-closed-down-1-4792069

    Posted 5 years ago #
  29. Rosie
    Member

    Yet another consultation... on tourist tax.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-45705509

    Posted 5 years ago #
  30. chdot
    Admin

    Val McDermid argues that the sheer scale of tourism on a shoestring is destroying the very thing we crave when we travel.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0000mpv

    Posted 5 years ago #

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