CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » Infrastructure

New zig-zag - top of Dublin Street

(40 posts)

12

  1. PS
    Member

    I'd often wondered how the raised York Place street level required by the tramlines dropping down from North St Andrew Street were going to be accommodated in the surrounding roads and over the last few days the first indicators have started to take shape.

    It looks like we are going to get a cycle-specific zig-zag at the top of Dublin Street, with two hairpins in it. My first impression yesterday was "that looks a bit tight", but this morning I felt a bit more confident that the turns were achievable on a slow moving bike and there may actually be just about enough room for two bikes to pass on the straight bits.

    Anyone else had a look and formed a view on this?

    Posted 10 years ago #

  2. chdot
    Admin

    Happened by yesterday.

    Suspect this is for pedestrians (only?)

    Think steps in the original 'plan '.

    Another main Sustrans route of course.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  3. wangi
    Member

    Does not compute.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  4. Snowy
    Member

    I simply don't understand what this is meant to achieve. There wasn't a difference in levels there previously, except for the pavement itself being all of about 5 inches high?
    This must be from the pen of the same wally expert who designed the white elephant ramp at Edinburgh Park. Where they completely failed to realise that not ten yards away, the platform and the shared access path were at exactly the same level and only two yards apart.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  5. kaputnik
    Moderator

    navigable. just. and hugely unsatisfactory as I assume too it's pedestrian only. Another fine example of Edinburgh Trams never-ending genius for infrastructure

    Posted 10 years ago #

  6. crowriver
    Member

    I simply don't understand what this is meant to achieve.

    It *might* be a wheelchair ramp.

    On the other hand, I can think of a couple of motorways I've travelled on which had similar 'design principles' ie. try and find the most redundant, complex, and time consuming way of building something which ought to be more straightforward (eg. tunnels instead of moving the road 200m sideways, building on stilts for excessive stretches instead of lowering the road to ground level, etc). They were in Sicily and Bulgaria, and they were both meant to achieve bigger budgets, thereby enriching the construction companies by keeping them employed for longer.

    I'm sure that can't possibly be the case here.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  7. PS
    Member

    I presumed it was for bikes as:
    a) it's on a cycle route (isn't it?); and
    b) there's a pavement on either side of the road, so why do this for peds/wheelchairs in the middle?

    Posted 10 years ago #

  8. PS
    Member

    On the way home I noted that they had laid a few of those paving bricks that they using around the tram on the second corner of the zig-zag...

    Posted 10 years ago #

  9. PS
    Member

    An update on this:

    The main ramp is now in the process of being paved, but at the bottom of the sloping ramp (bottom of chdot's first photo above) they've laid a tarmac ramp, which looks like the exit for cyclists onto Dublin Street (so no hairpin for cyclists - that must be for peds/wheelchairs/crutchers/pushchairs etc).

    The kerbing on York Place has now been laid and is seriously high - the road level is going to be something like a foot higher than it used to be, and the pavements even higher, so I think that explains the need for the ramp.

    The good thing to report on that high kerbing on York Place is that opposite the top of the ramp are two sets of dropped kerb, which suggests a direct cycle route across the tramlines before they turn and onto the east side of North St Andrew Street.

    I think this looks pretty promising TBH. I've loaded some photos onto my Flickr "stream", such as it is (it's a tad stagnant, to be fair), but haven't worked out how to link a photo from the Flickr app to here... :(

    Posted 10 years ago #

  10. chdot
    Admin

    With new Flickr layout - open pic you want, click on TINY arrow button at button. Set to BBcode 500 and copy some text.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  11. PS
    Member

    Thanks chdot. Was trying to link it from the iPhone app, but it's currently beyond me. Will aim to rectify in the morning...

    Posted 10 years ago #

  12. chdot
    Admin

    "Was trying to link it from the iPhone app"

    Not sure if poss - just use Safari.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  13. PS
    Member

    Ramp

    Dropped kerb

    Posted 10 years ago #

  14. SRD
    Moderator

    <edit>

    Posted 10 years ago #

  15. PS
    Member

    Heh. Got one working... :)

    Now to work out how I managed to get the farm8.static address again...

    Edit/ tada!

    Thanks for the encouragement, SRD!

    Posted 10 years ago #

  16. chdot
    Admin

    "The good thing to report on that high kerbing on York Place is that opposite the top of the ramp are two sets of dropped kerb, which suggests a direct cycle route across the tramlines before they turn and onto the east side of North St Andrew Street."

    Will be interesting to see how the 'official desire line' is actually indicated.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  17. PS
    Member

    I would guess that there will be a combined pedestrian and cycle phase on the lights at the NStAndSt/YorkPl junction. The stop line for westbound York Pl traffic will need to be to the east of the cycle crossing to allow plenty space for the trams turning anyway.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  18. chdot
    Admin

    Maybe it's for skateboarders -

    Posted 10 years ago #

  19. custard
    Member

    going by the Broomhouse path,they seem to building skateboard ramps wherever possible

    Posted 10 years ago #

  20. kaputnik
    Moderator

    cambered is the new flat

    Posted 10 years ago #

  21. Snowy
    Member

    If you're on an MTB and there are no pedestrians around, the Broomhouse ones are well placed for a fun high-speed drop-off. Erm. Hypothetically of course.
    *cough*

    Posted 10 years ago #

  22. DaveC
    Member

    I bet they place high protection fencing on this new cycle infrastructure...

    Posted 10 years ago #

  23. Rabid Hamster
    Member

    Crap for trikes, trailers, tandems and recs!

    Posted 10 years ago #

  24. Min
    Member

    I bet they place high protection fencing on this new cycle infrastructure...

    Yes, I was wondering if it would be possible to just ride straight up/down rather than straight into other cyclists on the hairpins but I bet they fence it all so you can't.

    Posted 10 years ago #

  25. Rabid Hamster
    Member

    nb: All these 'zig-zag designs fail because they don't fit the 'alpine' loop on the bend! eg the bend should open to a large outside radius deliberately and then tucks in again, maximising the turn for more users! Eez simples really!

    Posted 10 years ago #

  26. Min
    Member

    The stop line for westbound York Pl traffic will need to be to the east of the cycle crossing to allow plenty space for the trams turning anyway.

    Are the trams going to turn? The lines are very close together and it is difficult to imagine what is supposed to happen here. Has the council actually given it any thought yet?

    Posted 10 years ago #

  27. Wilmington's Cow
    Member

    Oh, I assumed trams basically ran both ways and so didn't need to turn at either end...

    Posted 10 years ago #

  28. DaveC
    Member

    There is a crossover at the east end of York Place. The east bound trams will cross south to the west bound lines as they head off west again.

    York Place
    ==========//=== Terminus
    ....................//...
    ========//===== Terminus

    Posted 10 years ago #

  29. kaputnik
    Moderator

    Oh, I assumed trams basically ran both ways and so didn't need to turn at either end...

    I think there's a headshunt, so the tram proceeds past the end of the route, runs past a set of points, then reverses back across (but with the points set to the other line) thus allowing it to change direction without doing a 3-pointer.

    Chdot (I think) told me that part of the enormous faff of the tram route is that these areas have to be perfectly flat, as the driver will be away from his controls when walking from one end of the tram to the other to get between cabs, and there must be no risk that the brakes could fail and the tram run away with noone in the captain's chair. This is why they had to choose York Place as the terminus - it couldn't be St. Andrew Square as there's not enough flat area beyond the tram stop to complete the reversing process. I'm assuming they aren't building a big ole' hydraulic buffer at the end of the line?

    Posted 10 years ago #

  30. DaveC
    Member

    Well York place isn't perfectly level but I guess its more level than some sections of St Andrew Sq?

    Posted 10 years ago #

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