Sounds awfully like the sort of responses Magnatom got from Strathclyde Polis, even when he presented them with video evidence.
CityCyclingEdinburgh Forum » General Edinburgh
Yesterday I was involved in a road traffic accident...
(64 posts)-
Posted 11 years ago #
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no one has been charged and it doesn't look like they want to charge anyway
This, you'll understand, often emerges as the default position here in Edinburgh where cycling collisions are concerned.
You'll have to pester them to think further on this, and definitely demand an incident number.
You'll need the incident number when making a claim via the lawyer.
Posted 11 years ago # -
I had been planning to get a gopro this month and mount it on the bars. I do have a contour camera but, of course, didn't have it with me!
I feel like it is obvious that the driver didn't see me - if he had been aware of me he would have seen me on my side sliding under towards the bus and I would not have had to bang on the side of the bus to alert to driver to my presence.
No witnesses saw the collision start to send but there were some witnesses that saw what happened while I was under the bus.
Posted 11 years ago # -
My immediate reaction to that description was, "fu...".
You are one lucky chap - not to have been hit of course, but to have come of so lightly in such circumstances! Yes, you really do need to pursue this one, he could easily have killed you. That really does sound harrowing!
Posted 11 years ago # -
'Lucky' doesn't come close. And to have no broken bones, etc. Amazed. Anyone want to be in my lottery syndicate this weekend? :)
Posted 11 years ago # -
I'll take 10 pence of that action!
Posted 11 years ago # -
Btw, if it were me, I'd get the incident number or whatever it is called, so you know your incident is at least in the stats, then jot it all down and contact the cycle lawyers (an email does it, no doubt) just to see what's what, on the basis that if the first bit is no fault, the second bit, where the bus initiates a reverse with you sticking out the side (visible in the mirrors) maybe has room for a new bike in it somewhere, and raising the cost of these incidents is good for cycle safety (and for how you'll feel in 6 months from now about whether your moment was taken seriously).
Posted 11 years ago # -
So I've been back to the Emergency Department for some xrays - absolutely nothing wrong with me (other than the scraps, soft tissue damage and psychological trauma).
I've not been to get the back and GPS back. I'd be interested to see what my Garmin recorded if anything.
Posted 11 years ago # -
So I'm feeling a lot better and the bike is in surprisingly good shape. I walked to bike back from the shop today and, while neither of us are fixed yet, I enjoyed a leisurely quarter mile back in the saddle through Holyrood Park. As it turns out, cycling is a lot less painful than walking at the moment!
I took the bike back to the non-local chain retailer where I purchased the cycle from. I'm not too sure I like the insurance quite they've given me.
Basically they recommend replacing the handlebars (£21) and stem (£24) along with £55 of labour to fit the parts and carry out a basic service.
As the bike is less than I week old I just assumed that the store would have specified the original parts as opposed to the stock lines they carry. I have no idea if a "Deda RHM01" is materially different a "Specialized Comp, 6061 alloy, shallow bend" that was fitted originally. Same for the stem.
The front wheel is massively out of true and the rear is slightly out however fixing this hasn't been quoted for. Likewise there's no mention of new bar tape. And I broke some plastic of one of my plastic clippy pedals, again not quoted for.
I don't know if I should back to [non-local national bike chain] or if I should take it up the road to [local national bike chain] and try again. At the end of the day, I won't want to go ahead and settle with my insurers and then find out there's another £xx that needs to be spent.
Any thoughts?
Posted 11 years ago # -
I don't think the precise make / model of stem or bar matters if they've been manufacturer-branded parts. These aren't available on the open market and I don't imagine any shop carries (or even has easy access to) exact replacements.
A branded equivalent part will be just fine,you will be able to get equivalent profile of handlebar, angle and length of stem, etc. The parts might even be better! "6061 Alloy" sounds fancy, but it's just a stock aluminium tubing alloy grade.
I'd definitely take it to another shop for a second opinion.
I assume unless the damage is cosmetic you'll need to replace the pedal, which means replacing both pedals. They're likely to recommend new wheels also. Depending on the shop they might just say get a new wheelset, or some of the shops that build wheels might quote to put a new rim on it. Either way, they're unlikely to be comfortable to let you ride away on a wheel that you've brought in stating it's been under a bus - after all if the thing were to fail on you as a result of crash damage and they didn't recommend a replacement, they might be in some way liable.
I think you'll get a more honest mechanic's point of view if you take it to an LBS. If you mention it's for an insurance quote I'm sure they'll give you a good breakdown of the work they think needs done and indicative part costs and labour, and let you walk out of the shop with the bike saying "I'll be back when the insurance agrees" with a clear conscience. I'd be tempted to do it at 2 different shops and then compare quotes. You can then submit them to your insurer for the WHOLE lot (re-taping included) and ask them politely to cough up.
There's a couple of shops around town I'd trust with maintenance on my bikes - particularly after a crash - but none of the chains are one of them.
Posted 11 years ago # -
If it's covered by insurance (and your insurance will presumably want to pass the claim on to the coach company) get another quote and tell them everything you want replaced / fixed. I've never had an insurance claim where I didn't make a profit on the deal (as did the retailer doing the repair / replace).
Posted 11 years ago # -
Thanks for the quick response kaputnik. On the handlebar brand point, I see what you're saying and if I can get something the same shape then I'll be happy and not to bothered about the brand name. I've never bought components before so I don't know if the bar geometry I have is standard or something special.
I suspected that might be the case regarding going to a LBS. Where would you recommend? I'm not overly familiar with the shops in Edinburgh.
Instography - To be honest, I was surprised that the nationwide shop quoted so little - literally four line items, two of them labour. I was expecting a very detailed list and a price for everything/anything they could think of.
Posted 11 years ago # -
Some updates on how I'm getting on. As always I'll start with the important stuff...
...The Bike
I've now had the bike assessed by a local workshop (with a very helpful collection/delivery service) and the list of things to be fixed has grown quite a bit.Bars, Bar tape, right STI, stem, fork, front wheel, rear tyre and pedals. Not got a price yet as they're waiting on prices for the OEM parts. For a bike that looks fine - I'm amazed~
Me
Doing fine. Doctor's think I might have a little bit of compartment syndrome in my leg. Walking about hurts and I'm still taking a taxi to work every morning. Joy!Police
Not heard from them. Doubt I will. I've asked for a copy of the RTC report etc but the officers have not got back to me. I'm quite disappointed - even if it turns out to be a no fault incident I would have still liked to know their findings. I've passed the incident number onto my insurers as I really don't want to deal with the bureaucracy of discovering the bus third-parties details.Insurance
I have a £25 excess - how cool is that? I thought it would have been much higher, turns out I misread the policy wording. Only higher if the bike is stolen from my home address / street.Cycling in general
I've been thinking quite a lot about cycling in this country and if it is really something I want to do. When I moved to Montreal I, at first, found North America a very intimidating place to cycle. But on reflection I'd much rather cycle there than here. The car driving population don't seem to have the same contempt of cyclists as many drivers do here. Sure, mistakes happen and there is some terrible driving but in general there seems to be a greater tolerance for cyclists.There are also a lot more cyclists. Often I'd find myself in congested cycle lanes and such like. That's nice.
And as for cycle lanes - Montreal is great. I lived in downtown and could get all around the city - for miles and miles along segregated road adjacent paths or marked lanes and contraflows. I really wish I could live there again. Sadly my lack of French language ability precludes that.
But yes, comparing Edinburgh to Montreal, I struggle to come up with a compelling reason to cycle in this city. I'm very much tempted to get a car and only ride for leisure away from the city centre. I'm sure I'll get back into the cycling mindset but for now I'm not so keen to reaffirm my commitment to cycling as a form of transport as opposed to cycling as a leisure activity. I'm not sure if this is a normal reaction or not but it has been on my mind for a while now.
I know that the data suggests the long term health benefits of cycling far outweigh the very small risks of riding a bike. That's great in aggregate but not so good if you're the guy that ends up hospitalised (or worse). *sigh*
(Some more on Montreal cycle infrastructure: http://tram.mcgill.ca/Teaching/seminar/presentations/Velo_QC.pdf )
Posted 11 years ago # -
Police
Not heard from them. Doubt I will.I recommend you get directly in contact with Inspector Alun Williams to chase this up.
I'll PM you his email address - he's responsible (as far as I know) for all such goings-on and I'm sure he'd be interested in seeing this topic, based on the conversation I had with him following my own experience of Edinburgh law enforcement.
After dropping him an email (initially via the Edinburgh CPT City Centre address) I went from total radio silence to the driver in my case being traced down and receiving a visit from the constabulary.
The Inspector came across as a very agreeable chap indeed, but I'm sure he doesn't have personal visibility of every single case and so would welcome this being highlighted by you, if you feel the police are falling short of their responsibilities.
Posted 11 years ago # -
@rosscbrown I'm not so keen to reaffirm my commitment to cycling as a form of transport as opposed to cycling as a leisure activity. I'm not sure if this is a normal reaction or not
I'm certain anyone would be shaken by your experience.
Others (including myself) on the forum admit to being scared at some point on the Edinburgh streets, even without a collision such as yours.
I don't think you should be urged to "get back on the horse", however I'm also certain that if you do want to work your way back, there will be folk here happy to chum you along for a bit.
Hope the pain settles down soon,
Robert
Posted 11 years ago # -
@rosscbrown I hope that both you and your bike get better soon and that the pesky admin gets resolved.
Any type of cycle incident is scary. There is a long way to go before this city and country lives up to the promises of the politicians and the desires of us cyclists but, statistically, cycling is a relatively safe activity. At least that's what I can keep telling myself.
A cornerstone of making this a safer place to cycle must be proper treatment of incidents by the police (as well as a more general crackdown on dangerous driving) and the courts.
Posted 11 years ago # -
I'm not sure if this is a normal reaction or not but it has been on my mind for a while now.
Your reaction is perfectly normal - don't beat yourself up about it. Been in a similar mindset myself and unfortunately it can be hard to get out of.
But yes, comparing Edinburgh to Montreal, I struggle to come up with a compelling reason to cycle in this city
For me the compelling reason is commuting time and money. Door to door it takes me 15 mins on bike, compared to 45 mins by bus. The £100/month car running costs are pure savings.
You can do a lot yourself to minimise conflict on the roads by choosing good routes (traffic free/no right turns/pinch point & pothole avoidance). If you ever want to venture back on your bike I'm sure we can crowdsource the optimal route for you to take!
Posted 11 years ago # -
Only just come across this thread. Horrible incident and I'm glad to hear both you and the bike are on the mend.
I came very close to a similar incident on the same road a couple of years back. Popular U-turning spot it seems and also a road where cyclists can pick up a lot more speed than perhaps drivers may expect us to be doing.
In my case I was feathering the brakes as I was catching up with a car. The driver indicated left to pull in, moved across towards the kerb, at which point I got off the brakes and started to accelerate past him. He then changed his mind and began to make a U-turn. I got lucky as it was a car, not a coach, and a very loud shout from myself managed to attract the attention of the driver before any collision happened.
I'm sad, but not surprised, to hear that you are considering whether or not cycling in Edinburgh is a good idea in light of your experiences. Not going to try and talk you in or out of anything, but I would like to share my experience in the hope that it may be helpful.
Having lived, and cycled, in Edinburgh for 20 years, I moved to Lancashire last year. I have to commute to various different towns in the area - some smaller towns and cities like Wigan, Warrington, St Helens, Preston - and the big city that is Manchester.
To begin with I felt that cycling conditions here were much worse than Edinburgh. Close passes, badly signed junctions, half-arsed cycle "infrastructure"... sound familiar?
I often feel uncomfortable and sometimes downright scared. After a while I realised that it's actually no better or worse than Edinburgh (unless you're trying to follow any of the main A-roads through the centre of Wigan - really, really don't do that). It's all down to familiarity. When you know exactly where you're going at each junction without having to think about it, you have that bit more attention to give to all the idiots that might be trying to kill you. I'm also starting to get to know which junctions I'd really rather avoid, and the best routes to use in order to do so, even the times of day that otherwise benign junctions get a bit crazy. Sometimes I take a wrong turn and get a bit lost, but even that is often helpful in taking me up roads that can come in useful for future journeys.
I'm not expecting that in another year's time - or even 20 year's time - there will be no more scary moments or close shaves. I do know that the more I get to know the place the closer I get to feeling as comfortable with cycling around as I did in Edinburgh. And let me assure you there's a few places in Edinburgh I would tend to avoid at busy times of day (Lothian Road anyone?).
Best of luck with your ongoing recovery and with any further action you take against the driver. As others have already said, should you decide to continue cycling, this forum is definitely the place for all the advice you might need.
Posted 11 years ago # -
Hi everyone. Thanks for your support.
By way of update:
Police - looks like there is insufficient evidence to charge anyone. They'll be giving me a fuller update this week.
Bike - still with Bike Shop 2 and waiting on prices.
Insurance - waiting on Bike Shop 2.
Cycling - I'm feeling keener by the day to get back on the bike. I hate to admit it but I'm getting a bit fat. Sadly it looks like summer will be over before the insurance etc is sorted. :(
Posted 11 years ago # -
I'm sure there are people here who could lend you something basic.
What size?
Posted 11 years ago # -
Eek that sounds horrible, certainly enough to be traumatic anyway I hope you are getting over it well and as chdot says anyone would offer you a replacement cycle (I might even speak to my friends at the Freewheelin shop on Slateford)
From what you said it's been the split second looking over your shoulder that the driver has driven off over your line of travel and I agree with everyone else the Police are mental if they think he is not at fault for not MSMing (Mirror Signal etc)
If you have got a helmet now get one of these which means you only have to move your eyeballs up to see behind you. If not bothering with helmet check this out instead.
For cameras I would recommend one that is helmet mounted for the vibration of the handlebars may make it too shaky to catch licence plates, faces etc clearly.
Hope you mend soon.Posted 11 years ago # -
So after much discussion with my insurer they've agreed to pay for my accessories (£220) and cover £730ish of repairs including:
New stem
new bars
bar tape
forks*
STI shifters
wheel
front disk brake
rear tyre.HOWEVER, I can't get the forks matching my frame - Specialised don;t sell them separately so the repair quote includes aftermarket cyclecross forks.
This is really annoying me as 1) the bike was 4 days old, I want what I paid for and 2) the forks style was a large factor in buying the Tricross - I really loved how it rides AND (as a not very technical lay person) I REALLY liked the aesthetic styling of the forks.
I know this is funny but the design of the fork (the more chunky look) was the main reason I went for a Tricross and not the retailers own branded alternative.
Any suggestions how to argue this? At the end of the day I'm not happy with their offer to fix my Mercedes so long as I'm happy to have the front wing of a blue Audi...
(I'm pretty sure the bike shop have picked out a good replacement frame, and perhaps I've just a toddler throwing a tantrum, but I fell in love with my all silver Tricross.)
Any thoughts? Am I being reasonable or should I take their offer and head for the hills?
Posted 11 years ago # -
I'm sorry to hear about your accident. I've not read the full thread so this might have been mentioned already, but did you pay for the bike by credit (not debit) card? Even in part payment, e.g. the deposit? If so you should be protected by section 75 insurance See here for the moneysavingexpert.com guide I don't know the ins and outs and time limits apply, but it may be worth pursuing.
If your insurance is a 'new for old' policy then they really should be replacing rather than repairing your bike, but it should be the bus company and their insurance that does that. And make the point to them that the forks were a reason that you bought that bike. I've had insurance companies trying to fob me off with things I didn't want and that didn't match the specification of what was being replaced. Escalation, persistence and reasoned arguments can work wonders.
Have you been in touch with a lawyer regarding the accident and a claim against the bus company? Or with the bus company themselves? DId the bus have cctv? Can you have a copy? Even if the police haven't found enough evidence to charge the driver with, that doesn't stop you making a claim. If only we had strict liability ....
When my husband was in collision with a bus, the attending police officer indicated that the bus company said that if we spoke to them then they would regard him favourably. We decided not to go to them directly but to go through the CTC (of which we're members) legal service as he sustained serious injuries (and we had far too much to cope with to do it all ourselves). If you've been taking taxis to work, you should be claiming compensation for that. I don't like compensation culture, but insurance claims = higher premiums = a reason for bus companies to make sure their drivers are well trained and that their buses have blind spot mirrors etc.
Obviously making claims and pursuing other avenues takes time and effort and emotional energy, and you may decide just to take what you're offered now and get on with life, and that can be a very good approach to take as long as you are truly happy with it. But it sounds like you're disappointed in what you've been offered and that you've lost a lot in terms of enjoying your new bike through no fault of your own. If you phoned a legal firm specialising in cycling claims I'm sure you could have a no-commitment chat.
Good luck and please keep posting updates.
My husband is now cycling again but now has a helmet camera (which means he now wears a helmet which means that a lot of people who love him feel a lot happier about him being on the road. But he did have a similar experience to you re the attitude of health workers. )
Posted 11 years ago # -
Ross, it's impossible (imho) to advise whether you're getting a good offer without knowing anything of the details of the incident. Maybe that's a fair offer you've received, or maybe it's £3000 light, I don't have a clue, but a "here's where I'm at" discussion with a cycle lawyer would be 30 mins of your time well spent, I think. I'm sure someone here would have some recommendations.
Posted 11 years ago # -
I think if it wasn't for the bike being only a few days old it might be a case of you being unreasonable - but that's mainly because people often change/upgrade forks.
What you could do is find out the specs on the original fork - weight and rake (http://www.pinkbike.com/news/To-The-Point-Rake-and-Trail.html)and say that the replacement doesn't match.
Posted 11 years ago # -
Not a bus - a coach - very possibly a tour coach from out of town.
Moving fast can often get CCTV from buildings and nearby buses (most have CCTV now) but these systems dump or overwrite every 7-14 days.
Speaks volumes for having a good audible warning of approach. Those who now me will know that I have a very serviceable piece of equipment permanently installed and a secondary system which I've taken on various organised rides.
Posted 11 years ago # -
I used my equipment to stop two dopey tourists in their path as they were walking in front of van turning into st Mary's street, a bad junctn at festival. It is with me at all times and is loud
4 day old bike tht should be a straight new bike why are they bothering repairing. Not same if not spesh forks.
Hope it is sorted in Ross C's favour
Posted 11 years ago # -
agree Gembo
Im surprised they havent gone straight replacement
might be worth seeing what the prices in the sales are
was the frame not scratched?Posted 11 years ago # -
So I've settled the insurance claim. No new bike. No fancy forks. Not 100% happy, maybe 85%. Sadly I cannot, in good faith, argue any further with them - I'm getting more than what my policy terms call for.
They did offer me cash towards a new bike but I didn't fancy covering the £300 gap myself. And they've covered all my cycle accessories damaged so I have around £200 of new kit to play with. Summer clothing but still.
And I learned an important lesson about insurance: check the fine print and evaluate the whole policy. I was worried about getting my bike stolen and bought the best policy for that risk. At the time I didn't even contemplate being in a road traffic accident. If I had, perhaps I would have considered a more balanced policy.
So yeah, I should be back on the road soon. Not sure how I feel about that, but happy that I'll have the option to get back out there.
Posted 11 years ago # -
Back on the roads, at long last! Mostly exploring off-road routes at 'quiet' times. Still, it's a start. Bike is lovely - had many concerns about the forks and so on. Only disappointment is the bar tape, looks like it was done in a hurry.
Very, very pleased.
Posted 11 years ago #
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