All cyclists guilty of pious arrogance (EEN op ed)

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All cyclists guilty of pious arrogance (EEN op ed)

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Started 11 years ago by le_soigneur
Latest reply from wishicouldgofaster

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le_soigneur
Member

Cyclists take a turn for worse(scroll to final paragraph)
"
POLICE gave cyclists a telling off for cycling the wrong way down a one-way street and made them dismount. Campaign group Spokes was outraged, not even slightly accepting the need for rebukes. The pious arrogance of city cyclists has now gone too far."

Flagged up on twitter:
bill lothian ‏@rugbyhack 8h
All you "pious and arrogant" cyclists around Edinburgh don't miss tonight's Eve News column by Mrs Rugbyhack (Helen Martin). Great form.

Posted 11 years ago #
chdot
Admin

Helen Martin has a history of complaining about cyclists - previously 'cycling on pavements'.

This time it's because of something Spokes is quoted as saying (in the ENews)

"
I don't know what was said by Ian. However what often happens on such occasions is that the reporter has a long conversation and then picks out bits to suit their theme. Usually the conversation goes on much too long for everything to be reported anyway. It is not as if one is asked for a formal written statement.

"

http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=10807&page=23#post-124660

Posted 11 years ago #
Roibeard
Member

Trollumnist, noun, someone paid to write a column to gain hits. Usually by saying something to encourage much commenting by "swivel eyed loons".

Robert

Posted 11 years ago #
chdot
Admin

Not just cyclists -

"

When you pursue a notorious anti-motorist policy of insufficient, over-expensive parking places and punitive fines even in suburban areas; excessive pavement widening; too much pedestrianisation and long-term tram disruption, of course shoppers will go elsewhere.

Edinburgh city centre is now only easily-accessible for cyclists and bus passengers so that is the custom it will attract.

"

http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/opinion/helen-martin-capital-suffers-from-car-policy-1-3041483

So - easy to get angry with or easy to ignore. Obviously 'we' think she is wrong. Probably Andrew Burns, Lesley Hinds and Jim Orr (etc.) think she is wrong, but have to aware that she 'represents' (and perhaps encourages) a 'point of view'.

I had an email exchange with her a while ago. We disagreed, but she thanked me for being civil. She is obviously used to getting 'abuse' - which isn't the best way to get her to change her views/attitude.

Any suggestions?

Posted 11 years ago #
amir
Member

Well, it's all about facts. Ignoring climate change (which we really shouldn't), we should rely on concrete evidence to show that city centres can be improved by better design, with fewer vehicles etc.

Plus there are facts about the link between city pollution caused by vehicles and conditions such as asthma and heart problems.

Of course columnists don't usually resort to facts unless it happens to support their case.

Posted 11 years ago #
amir
Member

BTW "pious arrogance" smacks of "smug", the descriptions often bizarrely used by those who "hate" cyclists for whatever reason.

Posted 11 years ago #
holisticglint
Member

@amir - I would be surprised if she was not a Climate "Sceptic" but you are right that facts are the way to go in any attempt to persuade.

There is the whole public health argument for active travel as a key means of fighting obesity which I think is pretty well established.

Additionally there are arguments for social cohesion and liveable cities to be made. Recent debate about how to reinvigorate city and town centres highlights the need to create pleasant urban areas to stop people draining away to the suburbs. Reducing the amount of traffic is key to this.

Posted 11 years ago #
chdot
Admin

"Recent debate about how to reinvigorate city and town centres highlights the need to create pleasant urban areas to stop people draining away to the suburbs. Reducing the amount of traffic is key to this."

One problem is that Mary Portas and, in many places, local traders and politicians go on about 'cheap parking'.

Posted 11 years ago #
amir
Member

You can park for free in Dalkeith town centre. Doesn't make it a good place to shop.

Many of the arguments used are based on gut feeling rather than facts. The problem is that there is currently a recession on - nothing to do with parking.

Posted 11 years ago #
Roibeard
Member

@chdot - Any suggestions?

Don't feed the trolls?

Her existence is purely to sell advertising. People don't buy papers for the news anymore, so there needs to be something controversial in the opinion, so that that people keep buying and advertisers keep advertising.

Online, it's just the same - site hits mean advertising revenue, so opinion counts more than news. Opinion gathers comments, and those that comment keep coming back to see responses to their comments, so the site hits keep coming.

If you must rebut publicly, do so once and don't come back. Rebuttal privately may simply reveal that she (or her subeditor) is just doing their job - keeping the page hits going.

Robert

Posted 11 years ago #
AKen
Member

If lack of parking is the big issue that hinders shops in the city centre then why did I count 10 empty units at the Gyle yesterday?

Posted 11 years ago #
kaputnik
Moderator

Edinburgh city centre is now only easily-accessible for cyclists and bus passengers so that is the custom it will attract

Clearly another helpful person offering an opinion on cycling who's never actually tried to cycle in the city centre. Just because it's difficult to get round in a car != cycling utopia. It's just as difficult, somewhat faster, but certianly more dangerous to try it on a bike.

Her existence is purely to sell advertising. People don't buy papers for the news anymore

If the latest circulation figures for Johnstone Press are anything to go buy, they're just not buying "her" papers any more. Perhaps people aren't willing to part with quite so much money to buy such pointless, reactionary bile when they can get much more of it, much cheaper in other crappy papers (or online).

Posted 11 years ago #
Morningsider
Member

I have to admit that I preferred it when my pious arrogance hadn't gone too far. Unfortuntely, I had no idea how far it had gone and am pleased that a seasoned writer for the EEN has put me right. I have now reduced my piousness by 10% and arrogance by 12% - to what I believe to be acceptable levels.

I will also make sure that I regularly apologise for cyclists that I don't know, doing things I wasn't aware of on streets I never travel along.

Posted 11 years ago #
gibbo
Member

POLICE gave cyclists a telling off for cycling the wrong way down a one-way street and made them dismount. Campaign group Spokes was outraged, not even slightly accepting the need for rebukes. The pious arrogance of city cyclists has now gone too far.

I think she's right about the comments by Spokes.

Their comments (reported on here in a different thread) were along the lines of, "What about all the drivers who break the rules?".

A better response would have been to remind cyclists that the rules apply to us as well and to say they're glad the police are doing more to enforce the rules of the road, for the benefit of the safety/convenience of all road users.

Posted 11 years ago #
kaputnik
Moderator

@Gibbo however it was her own paper quite probably selectively quoting Spokes. I've been interviewed a couple of times by the Chipwrapper and it is very much as DdF reported it on another thread. The reporter engages you in a long and rambling conversation then magically you are "quoted" using words that you can't actually recall using. Just because they didn't print Spokes saying what you suggest they might have been wiser to say doesn't mean it wasn't actually said by the person they asked.

Not that I'm mildly accusing the EEN of trying to quietly stoke a bit of controversy to shift a few more copies, no, not at all. Couldn't possibly.

Posted 11 years ago #
crowriver
Member

Well I wouldn't worry too much. Zero comments on her column so far. Looks like no-one at all is reading it, not even the usual petrolhead commenters...

However stung 'we' may feel by the insults, they're only effective if someone other than the offended party has read them.

Posted 11 years ago #
Roibeard
Member

@Morningsider - I'm not sure you're going far enough.

All these words are pretty meaningless without action, so I'd suggest some form of restitution.

Have you considered throwing yourself, a la Walter Raleigh, into potholes so that the drivers can keep their white sidewalls clean?

Robert

Posted 11 years ago #
Arellcat
Moderator

The reporter engages you in a long and rambling conversation then magically you are "quoted" using words that you can't actually recall using.

You could write a whole film around that.

This cyclist cycled in Edinburgh before she knew of Spokes and concomitant piety, and any increase in her arrogance is purely in response to that of car drivers whose journeys are apparently always of greater importance.

Posted 11 years ago #
gdm
Member

It is not as if one is asked for a formal written statement

People need to be reassured that a quote does not have to be verbal and so long as the journalist knows you can be relied upon to produce something within their copy deadline you will have time to pull something together.

If people are asked for a quote, they should just request the journo's email address and send something to them in writing. While they can still be selective about what they are sent, it gives you a better opportunity to manage what you're ultimately quoted on.

Plus it might help avoid giving people like Ms Martin ammunition that we clearly don't need them to have...

Posted 11 years ago #
chdot
Admin

There's a better editorial view on parking charge increase -

http://citycyclingedinburgh.info/bbpress/topic.php?id=11131&replies=7#post-125117

Posted 11 years ago #
crowriver
Member

If people are asked for a quote, they should just request the journo's email address and send something to them in writing.

In my experience, this is no guarantee that you will not be misquoted. A journalist can still 'paraphrase' what they imply you said to suit their story 'angle'.

Posted 11 years ago #
Charterhall
Member

Pious arrogance, just the words that spring to mind whenever the IAM's Neil Greig issues a press release.

Posted 11 years ago #
gembo
Member

I think in general there is a piety that merges into arrogance inside all cyclists. We are also quite smug. But these are not our defining characteristics. I was tooted by a clown in a van this morning as had temerity to stay in primary a little too long for his liking at Caledonian brewery. However, as I easily caught him in the contraflow he then couldn't make his mind up about turning left or going straight on at ardmillan. But I still had nicer time than he did. Temp traffic lights at digger v slow to change but still smugly, piously, arrogantly enjoying myself whilst remaining alert for traffic mayhem.

Who reads the EEN.??

Posted 11 years ago #
Murun Buchstansangur
Member

The EEN's own Glenda Slagg-alike has once again disseminated the echoes from within her skull void:

http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/opinion/helen-martin-cyclists-like-drivers-must-obey-the-rules-1-4318722

Posted 8 years ago #
gibbo
Member

"In winter my husband has a driving “game” in which he counts the number of cyclists without lights, especially in dark, unlit areas."

"Especially"?

Her husband expects cyclists to have lights on in daylight?

Posted 8 years ago #
gibbo
Member

"Cyclists should have lights at night, wear reflective clothes, obey traffic lights and should not “undertake” on the left"

You mean "filtering." Which is legal and is a consequence of you drivers expecting cyclists to stick to the left.

Posted 8 years ago #
amir
Member

"In winter my husband has a driving “game” in which he counts the number of cyclists without lights, especially in dark, unlit areas."

Not a very exciting game but I suppose at least he trying to see the cyclists

Posted 8 years ago #
gkgk
Member

Interestingly, since this thread started, circulation of that paper has dropped by almost a third (approx. 32k to 23k).

Posted 8 years ago #
davidsonsdave
Member

"In winter my husband has a driving “game” in which he counts the number of cyclists without lights, especially in dark, unlit areas."

He sounds fun.

Fortunately for cyclists, car drivers check their lights regularly so it is as rare as hens teeth to see drivers breaking the law in this respect. I definitely did not speak to a WVM driving with no working brake lights nor see several cars with faulty headlights just this morning.

Posted 8 years ago #
unhurt
Member

This piece was shared by the Cockburn Association on Facebook earlier: https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=1640732329276076&id=127366580612666 Recently they seem to take the view that quality urban planning means defending the "right" of motorists to drive everywhere.

The usual comments, and one complaining about having to "strain [her] neck every trip trying to see cyclists who potentially are coming at me in all directions - quite literally!" I think she's unhappy about... having to look in her mirrors and check her blind spots?

Posted 8 years ago #

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